[UU Discussion] Alakazam [Banned to BL]

[DoubleJ]

 

 

Common Sets:

 

Calm Mind

Item: Lum Berry

Nature: Timid / Modest

Ability: Synchronize

EVs: 252 SpAtt / 4 SpDef / 252 Speed

• Calm Mind
• Psychic
• Signal Beam / Shadow Ball
• Hidden Power Fire / Substitute

 

Alakazam is a glass cannon that can absolutely destroy an unprepared team. Its impressive speed and outstanding special attack stat can truly obliterate most threats and even most checks. The scary thing about Zam is that its known checks in UU, Houndoom and Scizor, just don't stack up. Signal Beam at +1 can 2HKO Houndoom and if you carry HP Fire, Scizor is rendered useless outside of CB Quick Attack. Otherwise Pursuit from either of these would be an incredible option at removing a powerful threat. Currently, HP Fire is exceptionally rare, but once this upcoming update hits, we'll face the fact that HP Fire will be far more easier to obtain and far more common. Swellow earns a special mention as a check as it can easily revenge kill Alakazam when using a Jolly nature with Return/Double-Edge, and it can even guarantee the kill when Zam is around 60% health with CB Pursuit.

 

Wall teams, stall teams, and offensive teams all fair somewhat well against Alakazam, but if for some reason Zam hits +2 and you lack any options to stop it, well like with most offensive sweepers you will lose.

 

Offensive Characteristic

A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

 

So with this in mind, the UU Tier Council would like to hear what the community has to say about this Pokemon. 

[SeemsLegit]

It's just so frail though, any physical attack and it's dead. That's my biggest problem with it.

[BurntZebra]

It's just so frail though, any physical attack and it's dead. That's my biggest problem with it.

It doesn't really need to take that many hits, since there's only swellow really that outspeeds it and that is going to decline in usage greatly with rhydon around. Its bulky enough to take a cb quick attack from scizor or something or take a pursuit from houndoom staying in. Its like saying deoxys-attack is bad because it has no bulk. 

[DoubleJ]

My stance on Zam is that we simply have to wait until after the update to see the prevalence of HP Fire. In the current meta, Alakazam is absolutely fine. Its lack of bulk and weakness to Pursuit is just too easy to exploit. Scizor will remain Zam's number one counter until HP Fire is seen on the majority of Zams. Right now, I personally haven't seen a single HP Fire Zam in the meta and only know of a couple players in game that possess one. Even then, QA CB Scizor will frighten most Zams with some damage so HP Fire is kind of moot after some health gone. Also, last tournament Houndoom was everywhere, which limited Zam in many ways. 

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Pursuit (40 Base Power) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 140-166 (106.8 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 70-83 (53.4 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Alakazam Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 200-236 (113.6 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 48-57 (27.2 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

 

100 Atk Houndoom Pursuit (40 Base Power) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 86-104 (65.6 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

100 Atk Houndoom Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 170-204 (129.7 - 155.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 53-63 (35.3 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Robofiend]

Given how rare Fire Zam is, how good swellow is, and how common Scizor is, it's hard for me to see this poke's particularly broken. Granted, if we get easy HP fire from the next update, that'll change some things since Zam will effectively have SE coverage on almost the entire metagame.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Robofiend

[BurntZebra]

Given how rare Fire Zam is, how good swellow is, and how common Scizor is, it's hard for me to see this guy poke particularly broken. Granted, if we get easy HP fire from the next update, that'll change some things since Zam will effectively have SE coverage on almost the entire metagame.

swellow isn't that great now since its a pretty easy switch in for rhydon, and steel wing removes other utility from swellow like pursuit or quick attack. Swellow is also forced to run jolly, which makes it even weaker than it already is. I don't think the "hidden power isn't available" argument is that great, considering people are definitely capable of breeding for hidden power. Look at all the hidden power fire vileplumes that people have. People still breed hidden powers a lot and if something needs a hidden power, a truly competitive player will breed it regardless.

[Robofiend]

swellow isn't that great now since its a pretty easy switch in for rhydon, and steel wing removes other utility from swellow like pursuit or quick attack. Swellow is also forced to run jolly, which makes it even weaker than it already is. I don't think the "hidden power isn't available" argument is that great, considering people are definitely capable of breeding for hidden power. Look at all the hidden power fire vileplumes that people have. People still breed hidden powers a lot and if something needs a hidden power, a truly competitive player will breed it regardless.

 

Well HP Fire Plume has been around since early UU, a lot people might have switched up the EV's on a Sassy/Calm one, for instance.

[BurntZebra]

Well HP Fire Plume has been around since early UU, a lot people might have switched up the EV's on a Sassy/Calm one, for instance.

I'd assume most are bold now so they don't get 2hko'ed by cb crawdaunt

[gbwead]

Why is Alakazam ban worthy?

 

• Relatively easy set up for a sweep

Last time I checked, Vileplume and Slowking were the most used pokemons in UU and Zam can threathen them with psychic or signal beam. Setting up a calm mind should not be that hard. Alakazam, being frail, usually comes late into the game when everything on the opposing side is damaged. For instance, Houndoom with no recovery move should not be full hp.

 

• No pokemon, beside Kanghaskan and Houndoom, can safely switch on Alakazam.

With Psychic, Signal Beam and HP fire, modest Alakazam can take down any pokemon in the game.

Scizor, Steelix, Tentacruel, Vileplume, Clefable, Hypno, they all die if they switch on a super effective move or on calm mind.

 

Careful Kanghaskan can resist a +1 Psychic from Zam and then kill with Double-Edge. The problem is that Double-Edge will leave Kanghaskan with very few hit points :(    (Kanghaskan can't use fake out because Alakazam might have the ability inner focus)

 

Houndoom can resist a +1 Signal Beam from Zam and then kill with Crunch. One problem is that Signal beam could confuse Houndoom. Another problem is that you don't know Alakazam runs HP fire until you see him use it. Alakazam could be running HP fighting and kill Houndoom. Unfortunetly, there is no safeway to scout the HP.

 

• Unreliable revenge killers

Beside Swellow and Houndoom, we dont have many options to revenge kill Zam. Most players are concious that the 120 base speed of Zam makes him almost untouchable.

 

With Swellow being forced to play with the jolly nature to outspeed Zam, Zam can simply play with the modest nature to maximise the damage it deals.

After Swellow, Houndoom fast pokemon that can threathen Zam. Modest Zam only needs 172 ev in speed to be faster than Doom, which means he can invest the rest of its evs in hp/def/spdef.

 

Since Pursuit from either Swellow CB or Houndoom can't OHKO Alakazam, if they use pursuit and Alakazam +1 doesn't switch, they will die. Trapping Zam is really risky.

 

• Pretty decent movepool

With access to Substitute, Recover, Encore, Disable, Toxic, random hidden power and other useful moves, there is no ultimate counter to Zam. 

 

I consider Houndoom, Kanghaskan and Swellow to be its main checks and there is an unconventional movepool to deal with each one of them.

For instance, Alakazam behind a Substitute could disable whathever move CB swellow would do.

 

• Alakazam and Rhydon/omastar

The 3 main counters of Zam are completly harmless in front of Rhydon or Omastar. Usually with only Normal/Flying/Fire/Dark moves, Houndoom, Kanghaskan and Swellow are set up baits for spikes Omastar or substitute Rhydon. The residual spikes dmg or the wall breaking Rhydon will only support Zam sweeping power.

Edited August 11, 2015 by lamerb

[Robofiend]

Oh yeah, forgot about Houndoom, who can run a bulky set that still shits on Zam and causes most of UU to shit itself. I think this poke will show up in the coming weeks.

 

I'd assume most are bold now so they don't get 2hko'ed by cb crawdaunt

 

I mean... I guess

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 85-102 (46.7 - 56%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Black Sludge recovery

Edited August 11, 2015 by Robofiend

[BurntZebra]

 

Oh yeah, forgot about Houndoom, who can run a bulky set that still shits on Zam and causes most of UU to shit itself. I think this poke will show up in the coming weeks.

 

 

I mean... I guess

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 85-102 (46.7 - 56%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Black Sludge recovery

 

well without the spikes its like a 22.4% to 2hko

[RysPicz]

After ONE Calm mind, which isn't hard to setup, given on how many special attackers we have in the tier currently, it is already able to sweep, and Zam can setup on literally every single one of them, excluding... other Alakazams. Psychic + CM + Signal Beam + Approtiate Hidden power depending on your team (Ground/ Water/ Fire work well) is an insanely powerful set. Obviously it doesn't sweep the entire UU meta, but we have so little reliable counters for it that can be easily covered with certain HP, that I think it should get out, even though I really love it (fits my hyper offensive teams :) )

Edited August 11, 2015 by RysPicz

[gbwead]

Cmon guys, don't we all know Zam is the root of all evil?

Don't let the diversion threads (rhydon and dusclops) blind you!!!

The real problem in UU is Zam :(

[DoubleJ]

Ya, I personally don't like Alakazam in UU. We just need further discussion on this beast to truly convince some of the remaining members to move forward with a ban. 

 

 

EDIT: Even without HP Fire it really puts a shit ton of pressure on the tier. While Scizor can kill it in one fell swoop, the necessity for Scizor is kind of ugh. Houndoom honestly isn't that great of a presence in the tier either. Sure it has a diverse moveset, but it's squishy and at a really bad speed tier.

 

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 48-57 (33.1 - 39.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

+1 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 71-84 (48.9 - 57.9%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

 

CB Scizor will be feeling the pain if it runs into a wisely played late-game Zam, which is honestly what it's best at. Same with Houndoom.

 

252 SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 53-63 (35.3 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252 SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 79-94 (52.6 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

Considering neither of these have healing (ok Scizor does, but let's be real, CB Scizor is the popular set and the most likely to be used against Zam), there are no ideal checks for Alakazam at the current time. Scizor is by far our best bet and even more so if you decide to run bulky Morning Sun, but even then, Hidden Power Fire ruins that game plan and puts Alakazam beyond S-Rank. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by DoubleJ

[NikhilR]

The immense pressure Zam puts on you to run a steel type/careful kanga/houndoom is huge. The problem is that, those are only checks, not counters. I'd be more relieved if it was moved up to BL. 

[RysPicz]

Can we get any decision on this monster asap?

[Arimanius]

I don't have troubles with zam or rhydon, I understand they put a big pressure when u face one but I mean u have to build a decent team to be able to fight them, I play offensive and I don't have troubles with any of them but I know we should be able to play stall too and both certainly work really well against stalling teams with their big dmg, I wouldn't mind if they leave but I don't see them as problem just yet

[Noad]

Added poll, please vote~

[Osuki]

If people decide to ban alakazam from UU, at least wait until the tournament tomorow. It would be unfair to ban something just before a tournament while people are getting ready for this with the list of current UU tier.

[felix]

Added poll, please vote~

nice, can we disband the council and use polls for now on?

 

[spoiler]

this was sarcasm

[/spoiler]

[DoubleJ]

If people decide to ban alakazam from UU, at least wait until the tournament tomorow. It would be unfair to ban something just before a tournament while people are getting ready for this with the list of current UU tier.

 

Don't worry, we have taken this into consideration when discussing a potential ban. 

[RysPicz]

Can't wait to wave "goodbye" for Zam when it'll leave UU

[DoubleJ]

After discussing this matter with the community and among ourselves, the UU Council has decided that Alakazam meets the Uber Offensive criteria for the Under-Used tier. After analyzing the tier it was evident that Alakazam is capable of "sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort". This was made even more prominent with Umbreon and Porygon2, both respectable Special Walls, being moved up to the OU Tier by usage. While Alakazam can be checked by both Scizor and Houndoom, both have their own respective faults. Scizor is removed by Hidden Power Fire Alakazam and Houndoom is 2HKO'd by most +1 Signal Beams. Considering this, it was evident that there are very few switch ins for Alakazam and even less answers once it gets even just one Calm Mind. We understand CB Swellow can revenge kill Alakazam with Pursuit, but this is only guaranteed if Zam is at ~75% health. We simply believe Alakazam exerts too much pressure on the tier with its combined speed and power, and that there are not enough answers for this offensive cannon.

 

With this in mind, Alakazam has been banned to Borderline.