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DoubleJ

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How so?

[spoiler]
inb4 "exact IVs"
[/spoiler]

 

  • EXP grind is gone for IVs
  • Nature farming is more feasible via Synchronize
  • Hidden Power will be able to be arbitrarily decided for a cost

 

Although if that's not good enough, feel free to complain about what you think needs to change and I'll consider it. There's more bullshit later on in the process (e.g. trading to find an exact match of what you need) but those aren't feasible within this particular patch.

 

Edit: For those who will think this is the only set of changes that will happen, ever, I'll give you a brief overview of PvP's issues:

 

PvPers have never been a huge amount of players. Maybe a few hundred during its peak in 2013, but this is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive playerbase of PokeMMO.

 

Organized PvP can not scale higher than that peak because it is run by humans, our GMs/Moderators. I've admined my fair share of tournaments and I'll say that our current tournament system can not scale past 64-man. Some of it is because of a stall-heavy metagame, some of it is because our players like to test our mods' patience when it comes to the amount of time they'll be given for a move, some of it is because our tournaments can only cater to English players due to our reliance on the forums when the majority of our playerbase is Spanish/French, but most of it is because of a lack of resources.

 

The solution to this problem is Automated Tournaments. There are a lot of potential problems with Automated Tournaments ("How often do we run them" "What tiers do we cater to" etc.) but most of these have been solved. Unfortunately though, Automated Tournaments can not occur before we address our players' ability to create competitive pogeymen to participate in Automated Tournaments with.

 

In order to increase our players' ability to create competitive pokemen, we need to reduce the tedium and grindy bullshit that comes with breeding's various parts. With catching, we require too many catches to accomplish a goal. Natures are one of the larger issues which is being handled somewhat by Synchronize, Hidden Power is another. EXP Grind was a large bullshitty issue that has been solved via IV showing. Another issue is the tedium caused by our UI (Releasing boxes filled with stuff you don't want.)

 

After we solve the various core issues with catching, we have another issue: We're not able to balance PokeMMO's breeding mechanic properly right now because we don't know what to expect when our silent majority starts trading with the people complaining on our forums. As mentioned above, our non-English playerbase is the majority now, but that walls them off from the Forums and it walls YOU off from all their potential catches. To resolve this, we need a centralized trade system which allows the various demographics of PokeMMO to instantly trade all their crap to make your crap better.

 

After we allow you to create stuff easily, we have other issues: It's too hard for players to 'reroll' their gained stats (EVs.) Using 100 items to redo your stat spread is unacceptable and we'll need to address that. Happiness is another largely pointless stat which happens to affect two very important moves, too, and has nothing but grindy bullshit attached to it.

 

Then we need to address the various metagame issues. There are issues inherent for Doubles and the metagame desperately needs some more aggressive Pokes like the Legendaries. And Tauros apparently.

 

All in all, the most important priority we have after this update will be the Trade Hub. That is what is blocking progress at the moment and I'll make sure we get that crap out like a monkey with diarrhea when the current featureset is done. But this is an issue which will require months of time to resolve. 

Edited by Kyu
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  • EXP grind is gone for IVs
  • Nature farming is more feasible via Synchronize
  • Hidden Power will be able to be arbitrarily decided for a cost

 

Although if that's not good enough, feel free to complain about what you think needs to change and I'll consider it. There's more bullshit later on in the process (e.g. trading to find an exact match of what you need) but those aren't feasible within this particular patch.

 

 

The hidden power option sounds like a very beneficial addition to this game. Unfortunately though, despite making some comps less expensive, these additions still do not touch on the fact that things are becoming more and more single-player and less reliant on player-to-player interactions. Now instead of trading for an expensive pokemon with a beneficial hidden power, we can simply spend some dough and get the hidden power we need without the middle man.

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The hidden power option sounds like a very beneficial addition to this game. Unfortunately though, despite making some comps less expensive, these additions still do not touch on the fact that things are becoming more and more single-player and less reliant on player-to-player interactions. Now instead of trading for an expensive pokemon with a beneficial hidden power, we can simply spend some dough and get the hidden power we need without the middle man.

 

It has always been single-player and non-reliant on player-to-player actions. Hidden Power being arbitrary for a fee won't exactly have a huge impact.

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well i think the core problem is:

 

player who breed / do comp are poor as fuck

player who dont breed (for example only do shinytrading) dont have moneyissues at all

 

at some days i made 1,2 mill a day with vs seeking (12 runs) , the problem here is that of course i dont used it to breed, but i used it to buy shinies from other shinytraders, who ofcourse didnt "consume" the money as well, but buy other shinies from other people. every new yen that i grinded was added to the current flow of money, which ended up to let some people holding high amounts of money atm.

 

if something will be changed it should be carefully done, cause easier way to make money also means easier ways to make money for people who dont let the money disappear from the market via breeding mainly, whcih probably will end up in inflation in the long run,

Edited by Quakkz
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It has always been single-player and non-reliant on player-to-player actions. Hidden Power being arbitrary for a fee won't exactly have a huge impact.

 

It won't, I agree, but it's just another step away from those player-to-player interactions I keep speaking about. While the fundamental concept of the game has and always will be single-player, the path to creating a sustainable and growing player-base is through player-to-player interactions. That's why this game is so successful and sets it apart from the handhelds. By adding more and more content that supports Mr.NoLife getting to play by himself and not having to interact with anyone, outside of competitive play, you're just asking for the game to shrivel up and die.

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well i think the core problem is:

 

player who breed / do comp are poor as fuck

player who dont breed (for example only do shinytrading) dont have moneyissues at all

 

at some days i made 1,2 mill a day with vs seeking (12 runs) , the problem here is that of course i dont used it to breed, but i used it to buy shinies from other shinytraders, who ofcourse didnt "consume" the money as well, but buy other shinies from other people. every new yen that i grinded was added to the current flow of money, which ended up to let some people holding high amounts of money atm.

 

if something will be changed it should be carefully done, cause easier way to make money also means easier ways to make money for people who dont let the money disappear from the market via breeding mainly, whcih probably will end up in inflation in the long run,

 

Guess it's time to implement Tomagachi style feeding mechanics to ensure that your collection of shinies don't end up buried in Lavender Tower 

 

=)

 

#feedtheshinies#usethatmoneyforgood

Edited by DoubleJ
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It won't, I agree, but it's just another step away from those player-to-player interactions I keep speaking about. While the fundamental concept of the game has and always will be single-player, the path to creating a sustainable and growing player-base is through player-to-player interactions. That's why this game is so successful and sets it apart from the handhelds. By adding more and more content that supports Mr.NoLife getting to play by himself and not having to interact with anyone, outside of competitive play, you're just asking for the game to shrivel up and die.

 

Yeah, I get it. I make the game. I know what encourages multi-player and I know what to remove because it's tedious bullshit. Hidden Power falls into the latter.

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Guess it's time to implement Tomagachi style feeding mechanics to ensure that your collection of shinies don't end up buried in Lavender Tower 

 

=)

 

#feedtheshinies#usethatmoneyforgood

meh thats not the point, all i was saying is that it shouldnt be easier for people who dont breed cause it will make it TOO easy for them to save up money , while those who breed really need some money. ideal way would be that comp players would get somehow the money that is grinded by people who dont breed but with non tradeable shiny prizes thats even harder now. another way maybe would be to sink breeding costs cause that would only affect those people but i think that was negged earlier.

 

the way it is now: huge amount of money is traded around by shinytraders etc. while comp players really are starving cause breeding + grinding + doing comp is probably impossible to do in an efficient way at the same time. (not that vs seeking is entertaining anyways, only can survive it while watching movies on my other screen :D)

Edited by Quakkz
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meh thats not the point, all i was saying is that it shouldnt be easier for people who dont breed cause it will make it TOO easy for them to save up money , while those who breed really need some money. ideal way would be that comp players would get somehow the money that is grinded by people who dont breed but with non tradeable shiny prizes thats even harder now. another way maybe would be to sink breeding costs cause that would only affect those people but i think that was negged earlier.

 

the way it is now: huge amount of money is traded around by shinytraders etc. while comp players really are starving cause breeding + grinding + doing comp is probably impossible to do in an efficient way at the same time. (not that vs seeking is entertaining anyways, only can survive it while watching movies on my other screen :D)

shinys, shinys and more shinys...a lot of people the only thing he likes is the breed and fight and if don't have money the game is bored.
the only problem in this game is the money.
breed one pokemon 5x31 comp is 1.200.000$ or more and nobody can get a lot of money easy.
if you need a team are six pokes 1.200.000$ x 6 = 7.200.000$  and if you want a team for UU and NU are 7.200.000 x 2 = 14.400.000$ only in 18 pokemons you need 21.600.000$ :blink:  for can play tournaments and events  :wacko:
21.600.000$ are a lot of shards, everestones and pay days  :P
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shinys, shinys and more shinys...a lot of people the only thing he likes is the breed and fight and if don't have money the game is bored.
the only problem in this game is the money.
breed one pokemon 5x31 comp is 1.200.000$ or more and nobody can get a lot of money easy.
if you need a team are six pokes 1.200.000$ x 6 = 7.200.000$  and if you want a team for UU and NU are 7.200.000 x 2 = 14.400.000$ only in 18 pokemons you need 21.600.000$ :blink:  for can play tournaments and events  :wacko:
21.600.000$ are a lot of shards, everestones and pay days  :P

 

you didnt understand what i wrote at all

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It won't, I agree, but it's just another step away from those player-to-player interactions I keep speaking about. While the fundamental concept of the game has and always will be single-player, the path to creating a sustainable and growing player-base is through player-to-player interactions. That's why this game is so successful and sets it apart from the handhelds. By adding more and more content that supports Mr.NoLife getting to play by himself and not having to interact with anyone, outside of competitive play, you're just asking for the game to shrivel up and die.

Didn't people beg for Trainer tower and Battle frontier too? That's pretty much getting even more away from that player-to-player interaction. We're doing it ourselves, that alone was a lot of a bigger step towards it than confirmed Hidden Power. And this game still sets it apart from the handhelds. You can fight people right off the bat, you can talk to them, even tho most of them are cancerous, bar teams, you can see all of them throughout the map, have fun, that alone is enough communication for a MMO. And the worst thing is, most people now just create an account, , play for a few hours, boast in channel chat or wherever the fuck they please and act like dicks. Most of the communication made in this game, atleast I believe with you, and me, and most of the players that do comp and breeding for a bit longer, are either through whispers, teams, or regular talk on officials/unofficials. Basically, the main part of that player-to-player interaction is toxic, and most, if not all of the older, more experienced players don't even want to give an attempt of going in there.

Totally derailed from economy, but title has community too, so yeah, that'd be my opinion

And I guess I need a Tauros now

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Didn't people beg for Trainer tower and Battle frontier too? That's pretty much getting even more away from that player-to-player interaction. We're doing it ourselves, that alone was a lot of a bigger step towards it than confirmed Hidden Power. And this game still sets it apart from the handhelds. You can fight people right off the bat, you can talk to them, even tho most of them are cancerous, bar teams, you can see all of them throughout the map, have fun, that alone is enough communication for a MMO. And the worst thing is, most people now just create an account, , play for a few hours, boast in channel chat or wherever the fuck they please and act like uguus. Most of the communication made in this game, atleast I believe with you, and me, and most of the players that do comp and breeding for a bit longer, are either through whispers, teams, or regular talk on officials/unofficials. Basically, the main part of that player-to-player interaction is toxic, and most, if not all of the older, more experienced players don't even want to give an attempt of going in there.

Totally derailed from economy, but title has community too, so yeah, that'd be my opinion

And I guess I need a Tauros now

 

Shut up

 

Ot: Fred once made some very good points on how to make this game a lot more focused on coop, rather than scamming pvp.

Increasing the payouts won't change the fact that everyone is still playing on his own.

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Organized PvP can not scale higher than that peak because it is run by humans, our GMs/Moderators. I've admined my fair share of tournaments and I'll say that our current tournament system can not scale past 64-man. Some of it is because of a stall-heavy metagame, some of it is because our players like to test our mods' patience when it comes to the amount of time they'll be given for a move, some of it is because our tournaments can only cater to English players due to our reliance on the forums when the majority of our playerbase is Spanish/French, but most of it is because of a lack of resources.

 

 

You could always increase your staff size. For example Hassan is probably the most consistent player to make tourneys(outside of staff), if he was to given a rank and possibly some supplies I'm pretty sure he would host more, and they could be officials. This is if Hassan was up for it of course.

 

Hassan is just one example.

Edited by KaynineXL
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Couldn't agree more kyu, the lack of a centralized trade hub is holding this game back immensely. It's a shame it's so far off, though

Question: will automated tournaments be the end of staff run Tournaments? Or will they co exist?

Edited by Gunthug
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the only way comp players get hold of yen from the likes of me who solely shiny trade is if they have shinies to trade, now that shiny prizes are not tradable this is far less likely to happen, which is why the likes of me end up hoarding large amounts of yen or passing it to another shiny trader for a different shiny rather than to a comp player who lets be honest needs it to thrive much more than the shiny traders do

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  • Hidden Power will be able to be arbitrarily decided for a cost

That means a pokemon can have hidden power fire and 31 iv speed right?

 

Edit: It could have a big impact on competitive play: haunter with hidden power fighting could now win against speed tie houndoom.

Edited by lamerb
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That means a pokemon can have hidden power fire and 31 iv speed right?

 

Edit: It could have a big impact on competitive play: haunter with hidden power fighting could now win against speed tie houndoom.

That's not what he meant, pretty sure. Since IVs are confirmed you can see what HP it is without the struggle of confirming.

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That's not what he meant, pretty sure. Since IVs are confirmed you can see what HP it is without the struggle of confirming.

 

if it wasn't possible for a pokemon to have hp fire before with 31 speed, then no.

 

Thanks. I misunderstood :/

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the only way comp players get hold of yen from the likes of me who solely shiny trade is if they have shinies to trade, now that shiny prizes are not tradable this is far less likely to happen, which is why the likes of me end up hoarding large amounts of yen or passing it to another shiny trader for a different shiny rather than to a comp player who lets be honest needs it to thrive much more than the shiny traders do

pretty much what i was trying to say

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  • EXP grind is gone for IVs
  • Nature farming is more feasible via Synchronize
  • Hidden Power will be able to be arbitrarily decided for a cost

 

Although if that's not good enough, feel free to complain about what you think needs to change and I'll consider it. There's more bullshit later on in the process (e.g. trading to find an exact match of what you need) but those aren't feasible within this particular patch.

 

Edit: For those who will think this is the only set of changes that will happen, ever, I'll give you a brief overview of PvP's issues:

 

PvPers have never been a huge amount of players. Maybe a few hundred during its peak in 2013, but this is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive playerbase of PokeMMO.

 

Organized PvP can not scale higher than that peak because it is run by humans, our GMs/Moderators. I've admined my fair share of tournaments and I'll say that our current tournament system can not scale past 64-man. Some of it is because of a stall-heavy metagame, some of it is because our players like to test our mods' patience when it comes to the amount of time they'll be given for a move, some of it is because our tournaments can only cater to English players due to our reliance on the forums when the majority of our playerbase is Spanish/French, but most of it is because of a lack of resources.

 

The solution to this problem is Automated Tournaments. There are a lot of potential problems with Automated Tournaments ("How often do we run them" "What tiers do we cater to" etc.) but most of these have been solved. Unfortunately though, Automated Tournaments can not occur before we address our players' ability to create competitive pogeymen to participate in Automated Tournaments with.

 

In order to increase our players' ability to create competitive pokemen, we need to reduce the tedium and grindy bullshit that comes with breeding's various parts. With catching, we require too many catches to accomplish a goal. Natures are one of the larger issues which is being handled somewhat by Synchronize, Hidden Power is another. EXP Grind was a large bullshitty issue that has been solved via IV showing. Another issue is the tedium caused by our UI (Releasing boxes filled with stuff you don't want.)

 

After we solve the various core issues with catching, we have another issue: We're not able to balance PokeMMO's breeding mechanic properly right now because we don't know what to expect when our silent majority starts trading with the people complaining on our forums. As mentioned above, our non-English playerbase is the majority now, but that walls them off from the Forums and it walls YOU off from all their potential catches. To resolve this, we need a centralized trade system which allows the various demographics of PokeMMO to instantly trade all their crap to make your crap better.

 

After we allow you to create stuff easily, we have other issues: It's too hard for players to 'reroll' their gained stats (EVs.) Using 100 items to redo your stat spread is unacceptable and we'll need to address that. Happiness is another largely pointless stat which happens to affect two very important moves, too, and has nothing but grindy bullshit attached to it.

 

Then we need to address the various metagame issues. There are issues inherent for Doubles and the metagame desperately needs some more aggressive Pokes like the Legendaries. And Tauros apparently.

 

All in all, the most important priority we have after this update will be the Trade Hub. That is what is blocking progress at the moment and I'll make sure we get that crap out like a monkey with diarrhea when the current featureset is done. But this is an issue which will require months of time to resolve. 

 

 

Man, Am I glade to see this day or what ? :) Finally devs acknowledges our struggle  .. what a relief.

I agree with most if not all what you've said so far (maybe just not the conserving of current breeding mech since i like the original "cloning" system from a principle ) but in general all what you have said sure will be an amazingly helpful and would make the game much more enjoyable.

 

but if you are really looking for a better ways to make this game more around multi-playing instead of single playing then you should start thinking about dungeons & raids like WoW or runescape .. it wont be a PVP but will be a group of PVE to reach a common goal which is one of the main goals of an MMO. another is Battle grounds which would present the grouped PVE other side (a grouped PVP).

Those are the main core of any successful MMO game which fully centred around team-effort instead of single-player effort to build a good party or so.

all other ways is just stalling and circling around single players whither it is PVP events or PVE events.

Not that i'm not interested in trade hub or anything i actually can't wait for it but i'm just stating what would really fix the core problem and make us break-away from this single-mode curse

 

Thanks Kyu :) i would really like you would keep this up and the rest of staff do the same by starting to share what you think about the game and its problems instead of letting us all speculate and argue with each other.

 

good luck & best wishes 

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  • EXP grind is gone for IVs
  • Nature farming is more feasible via Synchronize
  • Hidden Power will be able to be arbitrarily decided for a cost

 

Although if that's not good enough, feel free to complain about what you think needs to change and I'll consider it. There's more bullshit later on in the process (e.g. trading to find an exact match of what you need) but those aren't feasible within this particular patch.

 

Edit: For those who will think this is the only set of changes that will happen, ever, I'll give you a brief overview of PvP's issues:

 

PvPers have never been a huge amount of players. Maybe a few hundred during its peak in 2013, but this is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive playerbase of PokeMMO.

 

Organized PvP can not scale higher than that peak because it is run by humans, our GMs/Moderators. I've admined my fair share of tournaments and I'll say that our current tournament system can not scale past 64-man. Some of it is because of a stall-heavy metagame, some of it is because our players like to test our mods' patience when it comes to the amount of time they'll be given for a move, some of it is because our tournaments can only cater to English players due to our reliance on the forums when the majority of our playerbase is Spanish/French, but most of it is because of a lack of resources.

 

The solution to this problem is Automated Tournaments. There are a lot of potential problems with Automated Tournaments ("How often do we run them" "What tiers do we cater to" etc.) but most of these have been solved. Unfortunately though, Automated Tournaments can not occur before we address our players' ability to create competitive pogeymen to participate in Automated Tournaments with.

 

In order to increase our players' ability to create competitive pokemen, we need to reduce the tedium and grindy bullshit that comes with breeding's various parts. With catching, we require too many catches to accomplish a goal. Natures are one of the larger issues which is being handled somewhat by Synchronize, Hidden Power is another. EXP Grind was a large bullshitty issue that has been solved via IV showing. Another issue is the tedium caused by our UI (Releasing boxes filled with stuff you don't want.)

 

After we solve the various core issues with catching, we have another issue: We're not able to balance PokeMMO's breeding mechanic properly right now because we don't know what to expect when our silent majority starts trading with the people complaining on our forums. As mentioned above, our non-English playerbase is the majority now, but that walls them off from the Forums and it walls YOU off from all their potential catches. To resolve this, we need a centralized trade system which allows the various demographics of PokeMMO to instantly trade all their crap to make your crap better.

 

After we allow you to create stuff easily, we have other issues: It's too hard for players to 'reroll' their gained stats (EVs.) Using 100 items to redo your stat spread is unacceptable and we'll need to address that. Happiness is another largely pointless stat which happens to affect two very important moves, too, and has nothing but grindy bullshit attached to it.

 

Then we need to address the various metagame issues. There are issues inherent for Doubles and the metagame desperately needs some more aggressive Pokes like the Legendaries. And Tauros apparently.

 

All in all, the most important priority we have after this update will be the Trade Hub. That is what is blocking progress at the moment and I'll make sure we get that crap out like a monkey with diarrhea when the current featureset is done. But this is an issue which will require months of time to resolve. 

 

dat ninja edit with so much important stuff :O nice to read that stuff, gives some hope for the future.

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