Robofiend Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 This is a thread to rank OU Pokemon by their viability. If this doesn't make sense, you should consult a dictionary, because I don't know how to make it any more cut and dried. Like other threads of this nature, this is a general thread, meaning we won't call things a Defensive S Rank or an Offensive S Rank or anything weird like that. If you don't know what an S Rank is, you should read below. Discussion is welcome whether you're challenging Gengar's Status as an S Rank or Breloom's status as a C-. Please be respectful of people (even if they're bad/dumb). Walls of text are welcome as long as other people don't need to parse it in order to see your points. For example: Aerodactyl for A Rank: stuff Is a good format. "Well Aerodactyl is good but I don't know if it's really S. It gets walled by Skarmory so maybe it's B? I dunno I guess probably A though because it's really fast" Is bad, don't do it. PokeMMO OU Viability Ranking (in no order whatsoever) (definitions of each rank blatantly stolen borrowed from Smogon) S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the OU metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. They are low risk involved and high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws or flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon define the metagame. S Rank: Metagross Snorlax A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are strong in the OU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits. A+ Rank: Chansey Gyarados Heracross Slowbro Ursaring A Rank: Arcanine Aerodactyl Blaziken Forretress Heracross Kingdra Magneton Gardevoir Porygon2 Skarmory Starmie Venusaur Weezing B Rank: These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. These Pokemon exert an above average presence in the metagame. B+ Rank: Alakazam Dusclops Charizard Cloyster Flygon Jolteon Linoone Ludicolo Swampert Rhydon Tauros Umbreon B Rank: Sceptile Jolteon Medicham Milotic Miltank C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame. C Rank: Machamp Marowak Dodrio Slaking Trapinch Vaporeon D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are very mediocre in the OU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame. D Rank: gbwead, xilias, SirAlbert and 8 others 11 Link to comment
Artemiseta Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Metagross for A+ rank Capable of tearing huge chunks of damage out of most pokemon in the tier. I have it as A+ because unless you un agility there is a lack of speed and ever common earthquake weakness the Choice band sets while doing great dmg are able to be handled moderately well by the top tier OU walls like Skarmory and Slowbro and weezing if not running mixed varient. Slowbro in particular will be able to recover off the damage from thunder punch with sack off. weakness to common earthquakes truly is the downfall of this combined with the speed to allow it to be revenge killed. especially if it has damage on it dugtrio can trap it and revenge kill it Great ability in clear body allows it to not get checked by intimidate not against S rank here after typing this out but the EQ is why I still have at A+ (really A+++) Edited July 13, 2015 by Artemiseta gbwead and Vaeldras 2 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well every pokemon has weaknesses, and if you look at usage, the only other EQ user in the top usage tier is Gyarados, who doesn't OHKO Metagross at +1. I'd agree that it's not S Rank, but it has more to do with its offensive capabilities: While Tpunch+Pursuit+Meteor Mash+EQ is practically perfect coverage, Meteor Mash has bad coverage against walls, and Tpunch is generally underpowered against bulky waters with recovery moves. EQ is good, but only having one stab with poor coverage, low-ish speed, no Attack-boosting abilities and lack of recovery makes it hard for Metagross to really sweep. Arimanius 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) But does craig even ou? Just kidding, grats craig. Metagross for A+. An offensive powerhouse with defense and decent speed? Ya the steel beam is too good right now and even more so with Pursuit. Edit: also I'd suggest holding off on this thread until the lax/bliss decision is final Edited July 13, 2015 by DoubleJ Arimanius 1 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 But does craig even ou? Just kidding, grats craig. Metagross for A+. An offensive powerhouse with defense and decent speed? Ya the steel beam is too good right now and even more so with Pursuit. Edit: also I'd suggest holding off on this thread until the lax/bliss decision is final Fair enough. OU Council just noticed the old one is now RIP, so we might as well get a living copy up and running. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
Arimanius Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Edit: also I'd suggest holding off on this thread until the lax/bliss decision is final I agree with this part, a high class Pokemon in this current tier might not be a high class with the fatso so I'd say let's just hold this for a few days and then we'll see EDIT: damn robo u always do that to me Edited July 13, 2015 by Arimanius DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I mean, I think we're all pretty sure the ban's gonna get a 3-0 vote for ban ;) Edited July 13, 2015 by Robofiend Vaeldras and gbwead 2 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 PLEASE CENTER THE BANNER Reported for derailment DrCraig 1 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 PLEASE CENTER THE BANNER reported for fgt DoubleJ and DrCraig 2 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Alright... time to start ranking pokes guys DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Starmie A+ Nothing can safely switch in against this thing besides umbreon and gardevoir. One of the fastest available sweepers, it can also hit most pokes with a super effective move and even take care of skarmory and it's spikes. The only edge gengar has over it is stab shadowball to 2hko gardevoir (which is a lot, since starmie is pretty much useless against gard), but for the rest it works even better as a sweeper. Charizard B+ 109 base sp att might not seem a lot, but with fire moves being by far the hardest hitting sp moves we have it actually is. If you're not running arcanine this thing will give you quite a lot of troubles, and even then 252+ SpA Charizard AncientPower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 154-182 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO So yeh, it can actually beat arcanine. Sunny/beam will allow it to take a stab surf and hit back with solarbeam unless it's starmie, Without ancientpower/hp elec is a setup bait for gyara, so i think it's kinda needed, but even with sub/aerial ace it can still be quite dangerous. Edited July 16, 2015 by Vaeldras Robofiend 1 Link to comment
SpartacusGD Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Starmie A+ Nothing can safely switch in against this thing besides umbreon and gardevoir. One of the fastest available sweepers, it can also hit most pokes with a super effective move and even take care of skarmory and it's spikes. The only edge gengar has over it is stab shadowball to 2hko gardevoir (which is a lot, since starmie is pretty much useless against gard), but for the rest it works even better as a sweeper. Charizard B+ 109 base sp att might not seem a lot, but with fire moves being by far the hardest hitting sp moves we have it actually is. If you're not running arcanine this thing will give you quite a lot of troubles, and even then252+ SpA Charizard AncientPower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 154-182 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO So yeh, it can actually beat arcanine. Sunny/beam will allow it to take a stab surf and hit back with solarbeam unless it's starmie, Without ancientpower/hp elec is a setup bait for gyara, so i think it's kinda needed, but even with sub/aerial ace it can still be quite dangerous. That 3hko means it can be toxic morning sun stalled tho DoubleJ and Robofiend 2 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 That 3hko means it can be toxic morning sun stalled tho inb4 AncientPower boosts. lf RoboGoku and his Hax. Robofiend 1 Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 That 3hko means it can be toxic morning sun stalled tho I don't quite remember what the chances of a boost with ap are, but i think it's kinda bound to happen at that point. I'd personally rather send something like slowbro or even swampert if the sun isn't up Link to comment
SpartacusGD Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't quite remember what the chances of a boost with ap are, but i think it's kinda bound to happen at that point. I'd personally rather send something like slowbro or even swampert if the sun isn't up Its 10% if i recall right, and it has 8 pp max so its really lucjy of you get the boost Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Its 10% if i recall right, and it has 8 pp max so its really lucjy of you get the boost Weird, those wild relicanth will get a boost like half of the times, so lemme check... and yes you were right, 10%. Well, rip my dreams of glory Link to comment
DrCraig Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 S Rank: S Rank: Gengar A Rank: A+ Rank: A Rank: Dugtrio - Amazing support, especially in a meta where it can support offense better by crushing weaker walls not named lax/bliss Arcanine - Great DEF and SDEF bulk with intimidate, but little offensive pressure leaving it open to things like gyara/flygon Slowbro - Amazing DEF wall, great offensive movepool, CM set is devastating with no bliss/lax B Rank: B+ Rank: Venusaur - Valuable special wall right now, great overall bulk, stabs+leech seed and its pretty fast Magneton - Takes on Gengar specifically, and has amazing resistances otherwise, magnet pull is great in this now more offensive meta Weezing - One of the two best DEF walls in the game with no physical weakness still. W-o-w support is amazing and weezing is very easy to core with B Rank: Cloyster - One of the spike/spinners we have with decent typing but no recovery which hurts its defensive power Marowak - Its speed takes away from its monster attacking potential which hasnt been taken advantage of much yet C Rank: C Rank: Machamp - Cool pokemon, perfect coverage sets but outclassed by ursarings normal stab + crunch D Rank: D Rank: Dodrio - with metagross, skarm, magneton, gengar, clops, forretress, rhydon being things, i dont see dodrio having much room to do damage Was going to do the whole tier...but thats too much work yo DoubleJ, Vaeldras, Robofiend and 2 others 5 Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Weezing A With the ban of snorlax and blissey weezing's particular mix of typing and ability isn't as spectacular as it used to be. Fighting moves are less common, so it's job can be usually done by something like arcanine or slowbro, except they can also deal with sp threats to some extent. With so many sp threats being so relevant now and weezing's inability to even cripple most of them (a burn can be a good thing on a cmind sweeper, since it prevent s it from getting poisoned) you always risking giving something a chance to set up. Gengar bait, ursaring bait and so on. It's still doe the best "universal" ph wall, able to stop pretty much anything on that side, even gyarados unlike slowbro and arcanine. gbwead 1 Link to comment
SpartacusGD Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Weezing A With the ban of snorlax and blissey weezing's particular mix of typing and ability isn't as spectacular as it used to be. Fighting moves are less common, so it's job can be usually done by something like arcanine or slowbro, except they can also deal with sp threats to some extent. With so many sp threats being so relevant now and weezing's inability to even cripple most of them (a burn can be a good thing on a cmind sweeper, since it prevent s it from getting poisoned) you always risking giving something a chance to set up. Gengar bait, ursaring bait and so on. It's still doe the best "universal" ph wall, able to stop pretty much anything on that side, even gyarados unlike slowbro and arcanine. You sound like you're giving it a B tho DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 You sound like you're giving it a B tho Tbh i initially wanted to give it a B+ but gyarados is just so scary. I probably should have emphasized more on how it's still the best pure ph wall. With just slowbro you can't stop gyarados or heracross, with arcanine gyarados, ph kingdra and maybe flygon are still a problem, with skarmory (Even though they will usually deal "minimal" damage) elepunches can be a problem if you're at like 60% health, with forretress you can't heal, cloyster is meh, dusclops isn't as good as it used to be etc. Weezing doesn't have any of these problems, it can stop anything you throw at it. But yeh, if you're a defensive balanced player you're probably gonna use more than 1 ph wall, and at that point weezing isn't that needed anymore. It's just, imo, the perfect ph wall when you're gonna pick just one. Maybe skarmory can work just as well so i'm probably gonna test it one of these days Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'd say Weezing's more of a B/B+ than an A: it does have some real flaws and it doesn't seem to have a big influence in the game. Starmie is probably A, just because it's a waste of space if your opponent brings Umbreon Charizard? It's gotta be a B or C+, it switches in against practically nothing commonly seen in OU, has bad defenses and can't really sweep without a SD or Belly Drum boost Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Ludicolo and venusaur anyone? I guess i could rank slowbro too, i used and fought it quite a lot. Leggo: Slowbro rank...B/B+ Ofc we all know how bulky this thing is, being able to stay in against metagross' tpunch and heal back (unless cband). It does have quite a few problems at walling aerodactyl and gyara, which will usually end up taking it down with crunch. It can even setup on venusaur and ludicolo just fine, however it loses to jolteon even with a cm up. Slowbro doesn't really have the best defensive typing though, being weak to electric, ghost, dark, bug and grass, which are all very common in this new meta. Even after setting up it can still be taken down by something like crunch aero, jolteon, gyarados, ursaring etc. when it's low on health. It can potentially sweep under certain circumstances, but there are better ph walls, Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 it switches in against practically nothing commonly seen in OU, has bad defenses and can't really sweep without a SD or Belly Drum boost Well, it has quite a few opportunities to switch in: Venusaur can't touch it, neither can umbreon, with weezing you only fear tbolt and even then it's no big deal. Then we have forretress, skarmory and most of the times even metagross since it resists meteor mash (goes at yellow) and it's immune to equake. Heck, it can even come in on heracross and take a look at i't base stats: it's defenses are actually ok, it's more of a typing thing. It's actually pretty bulky for a sweeper, just compare it to jolteon, gengar, starmie or aerodactyl; it's better than all of them def stat wise. What really hurts it is that elec weakness, for the rest it's actually pretty durable with leftovers (except it's supposed to carry a lum berry or else you're not doing it right). Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Well, it has quite a few opportunities to switch in: Venusaur can't touch it, neither can umbreon, with weezing you only fear tbolt and even then it's no big deal. Then we have forretress, skarmory and most of the times even metagross since it resists meteor mash (goes at yellow) and it's immune to equake. Heck, it can even come in on heracross and take a look at i't base stats: it's defenses are actually ok, it's more of a typing thing. It's actually pretty bulky for a sweeper, just compare it to jolteon, gengar, starmie or aerodactyl; it's better than all of them def stat wise. What really hurts it is that elec weakness, for the rest it's actually pretty durable with leftovers (except it's supposed to carry a lum berry or else you're not doing it right). Ok, we're talking about a pokemon with Rock, Electric and Water weaknesses: it's going to have a hard time in the tier, especially given how slow it is compared to actual sweepers. Starmie's bulkier flat out, Gengar has like 5 usable resistances, and the superfast sweepers earn their keep in just being good at Revenge-killing things or late-game sweeping, not randomly switching in. 4 SpA Weezing Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 138-164 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- 65.2% chance to 2HKO 252+ Atk Metagross ThunderPunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard: 226-268 (76 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard: 584-688 (196.6 - 231.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO 0 SpA Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 111-132 (37.3 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Yeah, it can switch in but if you mispredict it's pretty much game over. Umbreon definitely CAN touch it with Toxic stall, Weezing has to carry Tbolt, Venusaur has the option of Sludge Bombing it to death. Even Skarmory can hit it hard with Drill Peck, lel. gbwead 1 Link to comment
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