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[Doubles Discussion] Remove clauses


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I'm personally a huge fan of doubles - vgc was one of the things that made me start playing pokemon again. I think that a tier that requires almost no bans or clauses is quite beautiful, and I feel like this is how pokemon is supposed to be played. However, in pokemmo we have a few clauses that have been inherited from singles without any actual justification. On that note, I want to hear what the community thinks about removing the baton pass ban and the sleep clause from doubles officials. We should aim to avoid bans or clauses unless it is abosultely necessary, and I feel like the baton pass ban and the sleep clause are not only redundant, but might also be limiting. I'm just gonna throw in my thoughts here, and I'm looking forward to hearing what the community has to say.

 

Baton pass ban: Baton pass was banned from every tier, but I'm pretty sure doubles was not played very much at that point. There has already been one (or more?) officals without the baton pass ban. In the previous one, I'm pretty sure nobody even used baton pass. The reason is of course that baton pass is not broken, and not even particularily good. Firstly, doubles already has access to better (or equally good) ways of boosting, such as psych up and snatch. Secondly, a pokemon that is set up can't just effortlessly sweep the opposing team like it can in singles. Lastly, setting up with baton pass does not require gimmicks such as haze or whirlwind to stop in doubles, because it can be taken down with brute force.

Benefits of unbanning: Baton pass is the only low priority switching move in the entire game, and has some strategical value. It is a nice move to have, even if it might be a gimmick, in place of u-turn and volt switch. I feel like it will open up more strategical play, despite probably not going to be used much.

 

Sleep clause: Sleep clause has always been an important part of competetive pokemon. If it were not for the fact that this game has the improved 6th gen sleep mechanics, I wouldn't even bother about asking to remove it. However, 6th gen sleep mechanics are quite mild and makes sleep much less powerful than before due to the short time of being asleep on average. There are very few pokemon with access to spore, and none of them are especially good in doubles. Other sleeping moves, such as sleep powder, are not very rewarding. It's also worth noting that lum berry is already a very common item in a sleep clause meta, further weakening the power of sleeping moves.

Benefits of unbanning: An important part of doubles is the ability to support your partner. However, pokemmo lacks quite a few support moves from later gens. Sleep is a very nice support move that will give players more options for their support pokemon.

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Well baton pass is supposed to be unbanned, but the devs won't update it correct?

Anyway I don't think removing sleep clause in doubles will be much of a problem since the mechanics are kinda lame. Lum berries are very common also. Sleep is pretty RNG reliant now with the fast wake up mechanics and accuracy on sleep powder. I do think multiple uses of a sleep move could be a nuisance since our Pokemon lack the power to get rid of say, a Venusaur, quickly before it starts sleeping everything and healing while whatever it supports run ham. However on the other hand it is a risky play pulling multiple sleeps hoping they don't wake up so you hold momentum.

I don't think removing clauses is a problem.

[spoiler]We need preview and pokemmo VGC, that'd be awesome[/spoiler]

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Well baton pass is supposed to be unbanned, but the devs won't update it correct?

 

iirc Darkshade removes Baton Pass clause whenever there is a Doubles Tourney, it'd be sweet to have it off permanently for doubles for practice but its better than nothing. 

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iirc Darkshade removes Baton Pass clause whenever there is a Doubles Tourney, it'd be sweet to have it off permanently for doubles for practice but its better than nothing. 

For this reason, baton pass is banned during team tournaments, which is dumb and arbitrary.

 

you can turn off clauses when you send the duel request cant you?

What zebra said. I guess i could've made it clearer that I meant for officials.

 

 

Thanks to people commenting, LF more support on this.

Edited by PandaJJ
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Regarding sleep clause.

Good thing we have this button here.

 

bc0a28ccb5.png

 

So it's technically doable pretty fast, would just take an administrative decision.

The only reason why I have sleep banned in my officials is because I wasn't aware that it normally isn't.

I see it all the time in the notes at the bottom of a PSL OP, but it never actually hit me. x:

 

LF overseeing council or whatever they're called, make a post

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Is support the choice to remove sleep clause in doubles. Baton pass is also pretty nerfed with the chance to double attack the passer. You can also use baton pass teams as a diversion to set-up things like dd gyarados or ttar on the side. Could be beneficial to making the game even more diverse.

I used to be for sleep clause in doubles but that was when it was 4v4 and you could be asleep for 5 turns. Now it likely won't be that scary unless you run one slow ass team.

Edited by DoubleJ
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Sleep Clause wasn't a thing in PSL3 I don't know if anyone noticed, for Doubles that is. Didn't hear any complaints about it.

I think it was one of those things where not 100% of the players payed attention to that or tried to 'abuse' it since it was unbanned. Personally I forgot after week 1.

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Sleep Clause wasn't a thing in PSL3 I don't know if anyone noticed, for Doubles that is. Didn't hear any complaints about it.

I noticed but not really like it was worth building a team that could take advantage of sleep since its not that viable of a strategy and you wouldn't be able to use it in officials either since they still have sleep clause (for now). 

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The Overseeing Council has decided, with the help and agreement of some other tier council members, to effectively no longer enforce Sleep Clause in Double Battles.

Sleep clause has proven to not be a broken strategy, it is pretty RNG-reliant, and if anything, can promote some high-risk-high-reward plays, which aren't a bad thing.

There were zero objections to removing the sleep clause from doubles, and it being there in the first place was probably a mistake.

 

'Sleep clause' will now onwards need to be unchecked when sending a duel request to your opponent in official tournaments.

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