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NU Tier Discussion Request Thread

Blue

By Blue
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Deadwind
Deadwind
Frag
Frag

I haven't read many posts here so dunno if someone did it already already, but whatever, I request an Absol discussion thread for being unhealty for the meta, Psychics type are the best checks fo

londark
londark
BurntZebra

BurntZebra

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, DoubleJ said:

Agreed. Quick ban when? Hitmontop can't handle the cb iron tail.

Defensive whiscash, bellossom, torkoal for iron tails, kingler is a decent check, metang resists stabs. Slow, bad sp def, and very few switch ins, especially if you want to preserve sturdy.  I would put it in the wait and see category. 

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DoubleJ

DoubleJ

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, BurntZebra said:

Defensive whiscash, bellossom, torkoal for iron tails, kingler is a decent check, metang resists stabs. Slow, bad sp def, and very few switch ins, especially if you want to preserve sturdy.  I would put it in the wait and see category. 

Defensive Whiscash, yes for pretty much all attacks. Good counter at least until it gets warn down. 

 

Bold Bellossom... nope.

252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 102-120 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage


Torkoal... eh.

252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 80-96 (45.1 - 54.2%) -- 30.9% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

 

 

The others, well now we're getting into the "Rhydon" argument and you're playing the JJ role. This thing could become a hit-and-run predict monster. If we keep Golem in UU then sure keep Aggron in NU, but if we ban Golem then we should ban Aggron on the same premise. 

 

 

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fredrichnietze

fredrichnietze

Posted
Posted
On 2/17/2017 at 7:10 AM, fredrichnietze said:

im dead but i have noticed from the grave a lack of special walls in nu atm. choices are kecleon, pig, flareon, and not much else. you guys are smart im sure you can guess the rest of my untyped thoughts fairly accurately. 

last time i posted this some idiot tried to tell me walrein and shuckle are special walls. point is there is a need for special walls. 

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DiDi

DiDi

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, fredrichnietze said:

last time i posted this some idiot tried to tell me walrein and shuckle are special walls. point is there is a need for special walls. 

on paper it looks like a charity case for special walls, but it's not quite as hard to use what you're given 

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BurntZebra

BurntZebra

Posted
Posted
Just now, DoubleJ said:

Defensive Whiscash, yes for pretty much all attacks. Good counter at least until it gets warn down. 

 

Bold Bellossom... nope.

252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 102-120 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage


Torkoal... eh.

252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 80-96 (45.1 - 54.2%) -- 30.9% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

 

 

The others, well now we're getting into the "Rhydon" argument and you're playing the JJ role. This thing could become a hit-and-run predict monster. If we keep Golem in UU then sure keep Aggron in NU, but if we ban Golem then we should ban Aggron on the same premise. 

 

 

NU has been tiered somewhat differently for the most part. A lot of slower threats with abusable weaknesses have been allowed to stay in the tier like granbull, kingler, victreebel, and others. Pokemon like specs camerupt, swords dance pinsir, and mixed magmar have very few safe switch ins, but have still been allowed, since we have a more things capable of outspeeding them.

 

Also let's not pretend that poliwrath was doing that good of a job at keeping aggron in check, it was worse than whiscash at handling aggron. It was nearly 2hko'ed by choice band thunder punch and can't ohko in return (even if sturdy is broken). Poliwrath also opened up the door to roselia/qwilfish to lay down spikes and make poliwrath barely a switch in to aggron at all.  

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DoubleJ

DoubleJ

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, BurntZebra said:

NU has been tiered somewhat differently for the most part. A lot of slower threats with abusable weaknesses have been allowed to stay in the tier like granbull, kingler, victreebel, and others. Pokemon like specs camerupt, swords dance pinsir, and mixed magmar have very few safe switch ins, but have still been allowed, since we have a more things capable of outspeeding them.

 

Also let's not pretend that poliwrath was doing that good of a job at keeping aggron in check, it was worse than whiscash at handling aggron. It was nearly 2hko'ed by choice band thunder punch and can't ohko in return (even if sturdy is broken). Poliwrath also opened up the door to roselia/qwilfish to lay down spikes and make poliwrath barely a switch in to aggron at all.  

This I can agree with. 

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OrangeManiac

OrangeManiac

Posted
Posted

I think putting too much pressure on a defensive Whiscash isn't what the tier needs right now. If you calculate overall, I'd estimate there is no reason not to Aggron lead in NU currently and what this leads to is a 5v5 match because even Whiscash doesn't like CB Earthquake so what we're gonna see now is just match becoming 5v5 + 1 HP Pokemon after turn 1 and I don't think it's what the tier needs. Yeah Poliwrath wasn't any any means surefire counter to Aggron but it was the most used one with most overall utility. With Wrath gone you would need to go so far out of your way to keep Aggron in check unless you run one of your own, of course. I personally think Aggron is muuuch more disasterous than Golem is in its respective tier if I were to draw a parallel.

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RysPicz

RysPicz

Posted
Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

If you calculate overall

Cheater

I also belive that without Poliwrath Aggron might be truly op, but hey, let's give it some time. It has 2 crippling weaknesses and Iron Tail has shaky accuracy. I also cannot agree that Aggron is more disasterous than Golem- mainly because of a lack of STAB EQ and overall worse typing. I also wouldn't consider CB Aggron as the most dangerous- I have beaten a lot of so called "counters" with a sub twave set which I see far more threatening especially because NU doesnt have a single poke able to cover that exact set which made Aggron UU before.

The comparison between Golem and Aggron in their respective tiers is pretty fair though, but those 2 tiers are absolutely different and Aggron has more than one set to work around. I would give it a bit of time, it's been in NU for a month this far and seemed quite powerful, but not as OP as we thought and maybe Wrath's move will not have such a big impact as we think.

 

e:

Don't get me wrong, I am also concerned, but I just dont like to theorymon too much without any evidence in form of replays or experience to back up my words.

 

Edited by RysPicz
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LifeStyle

LifeStyle

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, RysPicz said:

I have beaten a lot of so called "counters" with a sub twave set which I see far more threatening especially because NU doesnt have a single poke able to cover that exact set which made Aggron UU before.

Claydol seems like a really hard counter for that

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RysPicz

RysPicz

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Risadex said:

inb4: Kingler moving up from UU next update.

 

pls remove this usage-based stuff m8s

As long as Meganium, Exegg, Slowking and Plume are in UU and Kingler does not have access to X Scissor, I doubt it will see much use in UU

 

Gotta double cuz posting from phone (god damn I hate it)

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