NU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[Gunthug]

Lol I don't think anyone was seriously pushing for a reset 

 

Though tbf I also thought jj's "discussion: crits" was in jest lel

Edited December 25, 2016 by Gunthug

[gbwead]

If anyone believes a pokemon is no longer banworthy, please let us know which one(s) and why. If too many Ubers, BL and BL2 pokemons were to be unbanned, a reset would make sense, but I seriously doubt that is the case.

[Mnemosyne]

17 minutes ago, gbwead said:

If anyone believes a pokemon is no longer banworthy, please let us know which one(s) and why. If too many Ubers, BL and BL2 pokemons were to be unbanned, a reset would make sense, but I seriously doubt that is the case.

Do we have BL2 pokemons currently? 

[RysPicz]

Only moments where I belive reset would be necessary are:

1) Updating the movepools of pokemons by gen4+ moves

2) Introducing items such as Air Balloon, Focus Sash, type-boosting gems, damage-reducing berries, etc

3) Introducing new pokemons (legendaries when)

4) Introducing new abilities

5) Fairy type lmao

 

And I belive some of these would come in a pack- implementing them one by one seems kinda stupid for me.

[Mnemosyne]

40 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Only moments where I belive reset would be necessary are:

1) Updating the movepools of pokemons by gen4+ moves

2) Introducing items such as Air Balloon, Focus Sash, type-boosting gems, damage-reducing berries, etc

3) Introducing new pokemons (legendaries when)

4) Introducing new abilities

5) Fairy type lmao

 

And I belive some of these would come in a pack- implementing them one by one seems kinda stupid for me.

Lol wtf has this to do with the NU tier request topic. You should make a suggestion topic bro. 

[LifeStyle]

Stick SD Farfetch'd doe

+2 252+ Atk Farfetch'd Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath on a critical hit: 198-234 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Farfetch'd Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom on a critical hit: 200-236 (109.8 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Farfetch'd Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Electabuzz on a critical hit: 138-163 (97.8 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

 

2 stronk pls ban

[xStarr]

2 hours ago, LifeStyle said:

Stick SD Farfetch'd doe

+2 252+ Atk Farfetch'd Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath on a critical hit: 198-234 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Farfetch'd Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom on a critical hit: 200-236 (109.8 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Farfetch'd Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Electabuzz on a critical hit: 138-163 (97.8 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

 

2 stronk pls ban

Holy

[pachima]

17 hours ago, LifeStyle said:

Stick SD Farfetch'd doe

+2 252+ Atk Farfetch'd Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath on a critical hit: 198-234 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Farfetch'd Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom on a critical hit: 200-236 (109.8 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Farfetch'd Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Electabuzz on a critical hit: 138-163 (97.8 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

 

2 stronk pls ban

 

tru, until it gets outsped and ohkoed ez.

[LifeStyle]

3 hours ago, pachima said:

tru, until it gets outsped and ohkoed ez.

did you not see qa calc

[pachima]

1 minute ago, LifeStyle said:

did you not see qa calc

Yeah but he cant even set up on shuckle. Good luck swords dancing.

[LifeStyle]

7 minutes ago, pachima said:

Yeah but he cant even set up on shuckle. Good luck swords dancing.

ok

[pachima]

2 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

ok

Also, only slash + leaf blade get the 100% crit

[LifeStyle]

2 minutes ago, pachima said:

Also, only slash + leaf blade get the 100% crit

you do know I was joking tho right? pls stop

[pachima]

Just now, LifeStyle said:

you do know I was joking tho right? pls stop

shhhhh sry sweeper farfetch isnt even close to the weirdest shit Ive ever did, so no, cant tell whether u joking or not.

[RysPicz]

It got me thinking though, Farfetch'd technically *can* set up on mons like Tangela and Bellossom or some ghost/ ground-locked moves. Still, it gets outspeeded by so much that even after setup things like Scyther can revenge-kill it (if it manages to score a kill that is). It looks cool, I'd wanna use it ;x Maybe memento support?

[fredrichnietze]

13 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

It got me thinking though, Farfetch'd technically *can* set up on mons like Tangela and Bellossom or some ghost/ ground-locked moves. Still, it gets outspeeded by so much that even after setup things like Scyther can revenge-kill it (if it manages to score a kill that is). It looks cool, I'd wanna use it ;x Maybe memento support?

what it needs is bp agility and maybe a +def or spdef, or web support. we just dont have or banned those.

[Mnemosyne]

Nvm

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Mnemosyne

[LancasterTheOwl]

I would love to see Aggron come back to NU. Not because i have a an Aggron in the 7th box of my PC that i finished breeding as soon as it was bumped but up or anything. Nah, i just...you know wanna diversity (as if NU is diverse enough). But seriously though, I'm not sure what use aggron is getting in UU, but in NU i didn't think it was much of a threat, especially in the face of solrock which i see most people using these days. I'm hoping to get some calc's later on to show. I don't think it needs to be banned from NU and it will give other players another option for a defensive poke if they don't want the task of breeding a solrock or if a Defensive Poliwrath is there style. Its for the good of the other players you know? (Totally not because this Aggron has been sitting in my box collecting dust for the past year and i'm itching to us it in NU, totally not the reason >.>)

[OrangeManiac]

7 minutes ago, LancasterTheOwl said:

I would love to see Aggron come back to NU. Not because i have a an Aggron in the 7th box of my PC that i finished breeding as soon as it was bumped but up or anything. Nah, i just...you know wanna diversity (as if NU is diverse enough). But seriously though, I'm not sure what use aggron is getting in UU, but in NU i didn't think it was much of a threat, especially in the face of solrock which i see most people using these days. I'm hoping to get some calc's later on to show. I don't think it needs to be banned from NU and it will give other players another option for a defensive poke if they don't want the task of breeding a solrock or if a Defensive Poliwrath is there style. Its for the good of the other players you know? (Totally not because this Aggron has been sitting in my box collecting dust for the past year and i'm itching to us it in NU, totally not the reason >.>)

If it's UU by usage, it will remain in UU now matter how much better it would make the NU tier. It's just how the standards for tiering has been set and it's something that won't be changed for consistency reasons.

 

Btw that one sentence, I hope you're trying to say that Aggron wasn't so good of a physical wall because Solrock exists - not that Solrock counters Aggron because that's not true. Also no one used Aggron as a physical wall but as a Sturdy wallbreaker.

Edited January 11, 2017 by OrangeManiac

[LancasterTheOwl]

57 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

If it's UU by usage, it will remain in UU now matter how much better it would make the NU tier. It's just how the standards for tiering has been set and it's something that won't be changed for consistency reasons.

 

Btw that one sentence, I hope you're trying to say that Aggron wasn't so good of a physical wall because Solrock exists - not that Solrock counters Aggron because that's not true. Also no one used Aggron as a physical wall but as a Sturdy wallbreaker.

Rip, guess that does make sense. And about that one sentence, yea that's that's what i meant >.>

[OrangeManiac]

I admit I found the initial quick ban for Azumarill justified when it got below UU usage but now I must say I would kinda ask for Azumarill to be tested in NU. STAB Water spamming is really hard in current NU, which can be noted in the unpopularity of Kingler. Azumarill does get Ice Punch, which gives it additional coverage but due to its low speed it's very checkable with the wrong prediction. I'm aware Azumarill might be a bit more reliable wallbreaker than Kingler but Kingler's sub 9% usage indicates that the seemingly super powerful offensive traits don't necessarily result in the Pokemon being useful. In addition, I feel like Granbull is much harder to reliably switch against compared to Azumarill.

[pachima]

12 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

I admit I found the initial quick ban for Azumarill justified when it got below UU usage but now I must say I would kinda ask for Azumarill to be tested in NU. STAB Water spamming is really hard in current NU, which can be noted in the unpopularity of Kingler. Azumarill does get Ice Punch, which gives it additional coverage but due to its low speed it's very checkable with the wrong prediction. I'm aware Azumarill might be a bit more reliable wallbreaker than Kingler but Kingler's sub 9% usage indicates that the seemingly super powerful offensive traits don't necessarily result in the Pokemon being useful. In addition, I feel like Granbull is much harder to reliably switch against compared to Azumarill.

 

 

 

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 63-75 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

This is the best you it in the tier, and still, one flinch and hitmontop is gone without even hitting azumarill.   With ice punch, those pesky grass types aren´t a problem, unlike Kingler, and with double-edge, poliwrath isnt a safe check either.

Granbull, on the other hand, seems to be in the same stake as azumarill, but somehow I think azumarill´s predictions are less risky than Granbull´s ones.

[BurntZebra]

42 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

I admit I found the initial quick ban for Azumarill justified when it got below UU usage but now I must say I would kinda ask for Azumarill to be tested in NU. STAB Water spamming is really hard in current NU, which can be noted in the unpopularity of Kingler. Azumarill does get Ice Punch, which gives it additional coverage but due to its low speed it's very checkable with the wrong prediction. I'm aware Azumarill might be a bit more reliable wallbreaker than Kingler but Kingler's sub 9% usage indicates that the seemingly super powerful offensive traits don't necessarily result in the Pokemon being useful. In addition, I feel like Granbull is much harder to reliably switch against compared to Azumarill.

Kingler has a few issues such as its lackluster special defense and somewhat limited movepool (relying on 90% accuracy stab move/relying on recoil dedge to hit bulky waters/grasses hard), but I still think it's quite overpowered. 

 

Azumarill has much better bulk and higher attack as well (roughly base 152 attack). The speed isn't too much of an issue as azumarill still finds itself outspeeding most walls other than like raichu or jumpluff, neither of which have much business switching in vs azumarill. It also has ice punch at its disposal to deal with grass types, which are the only things that really threaten azumarill at all. Poliwrath can avoid being 2hko'ed by choice banded return, but it can only 4hko azumarill and has unreliable recovery in rest. Not much other than standard normal resists can take advantage of a cb return locked azumarill either, so at best, you have poliwrath take a big 45% hit from return, then forced to switch out to a normal resist. Nothing offensive has any chance at switching in vs azumarill regardless of what azumarill is locked into, so you're essentially forced to run poliwrath+bellossom+some normal resist to have a chance at taking on azumarill. Not to mention you need to still run something thats 105 base speed+ or else drum azumarill will run through any and every wall and outspeed everything up to fearow.

 

I'd say the main conclusion to draw from this is that azumarill's bulk makes it a lot better than granbull/kingler in wallbreaking abilities. This is why pinsir is so good as well. Pinsir is able to survive a lot of strong attacks and can avoid 2hkos from pretty much any wall that doesn't have super effective coverage. 

[OrangeManiac]

14 hours ago, BurntZebra said:

Kingler has a few issues such as its lackluster special defense and somewhat limited movepool (relying on 90% accuracy stab move/relying on recoil dedge to hit bulky waters/grasses hard), but I still think it's quite overpowered. 

 

Azumarill has much better bulk and higher attack as well (roughly base 152 attack). The speed isn't too much of an issue as azumarill still finds itself outspeeding most walls other than like raichu or jumpluff, neither of which have much business switching in vs azumarill. It also has ice punch at its disposal to deal with grass types, which are the only things that really threaten azumarill at all. Poliwrath can avoid being 2hko'ed by choice banded return, but it can only 4hko azumarill and has unreliable recovery in rest. Not much other than standard normal resists can take advantage of a cb return locked azumarill either, so at best, you have poliwrath take a big 45% hit from return, then forced to switch out to a normal resist. Nothing offensive has any chance at switching in vs azumarill regardless of what azumarill is locked into, so you're essentially forced to run poliwrath+bellossom+some normal resist to have a chance at taking on azumarill. Not to mention you need to still run something thats 105 base speed+ or else drum azumarill will run through any and every wall and outspeed everything up to fearow.

 

I'd say the main conclusion to draw from this is that azumarill's bulk makes it a lot better than granbull/kingler in wallbreaking abilities. This is why pinsir is so good as well. Pinsir is able to survive a lot of strong attacks and can avoid 2hkos from pretty much any wall that doesn't have super effective coverage. 

I think one really crucial thing that makes Kingler notably better is the speed. Base 20 speed might look insignificant but it is the reason why Kingler can be run with Scarf and Azumarill cannot. (Well you could but it makes honestly no sense considering how many things outspeed you). Azumarill's low speed limits it only to bulky roles so of course it's more bulkier Pokemon than Kingler is. When Kingler constantly has that threat of being able to sweep the sweepers, Azumarill is pretty useless beyond breaking the walls because lots and lots of NU sweepers use STAB Electric or Grass attacks making Azumarill a really easy Pokemon to swept away. If you think there's already problems with Kingler, I can definitely see why you find Azumarill a problem for NU, though.

 

I'm really surprised in the era of not wanting to assume things Azumarill doesn't even get a test but whatever, the lack of Azumarill doesn't really make the tier unplayable. It's just that everyone were so quick to ban Kingler and one point it was under 7% usage which kinda tells how scared we are when a Pokemon hits a bit harder but never want to bring it in our team.

Edited January 12, 2017 by OrangeManiac

[DarylDixon]

i bought one aron for 400k and 2-3 days later got banned from nu

breeded one lapras later 2-3 days got banned from nu

i breeded my first 5x31 blastoise spent alot for it and later banned from nu

i breeded an jolly golem 2 days later the breed got banned...

 

if i breed a shuckle can ban it? 

 

BAN dis fucking cancer or help me what i can do with this thing pls.

Edited January 17, 2017 by DarylDixon