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NU Tier Discussion Request Thread


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  • 1 month later...

Wouldn't mind seeing a thread for Diglett honestly.. That thing is disgusting in NU.

 

Scarf Diglett easily kills:

Kecleon(just turn it to electric/poison type first)

Raichu(have some bulk to live espeed, you don't need max speed anyway)

Kadabra(ohko)

Flareon(ohko)

Electrode(ohko)

Electabuzz(ohko)

Camerupt(ohko)

Nidoking(chance to ohko, 100% after 1 orb)

 

Not to mention it's an insane revenge killer on anything that's lowered a bit.

 

It's almost always likely to be useful in a duel especially since 2 of the prime special walls are trapped by it. I am an abuser of it and it's just because it's so easy to use. NU feels like a scrappy tier as it is, I think removing Diglett would be a good step to making it more stable.

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I think it's easily countered, we have everything we need to fight it so it's not worth banning yet. You are having it easy because it's usage isn't so high yet, so many people don't have countermeasures. I think the meta will just adapt, we don't need to ban it

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4 hours ago, Erayne said:

I think it's easily countered, we have everything we need to fight it so it's not worth banning yet. You are having it easy because it's usage isn't so high yet, so many people don't have countermeasures. I think the meta will just adapt, we don't need to ban it

Lol

 

Enlighten me, how does one counter a trap/revenge killing Pokemon.

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1 minute ago, Havsha said:

I mean, you could maybe try pursuit trapping it, granted thats 9/10 it will have to be as a revenge method, but Fearow for one can keep them in line

You've probably lost your sp wall by that time to Diglett, the job is pretty much done. The thing is, Fearow is like the only good pursuiter we even have now, Scyther on the odd occasion can use it, but we're running very low on these "counters".

 

I'm not even sure we can define something that revenges as a counter, actually.

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34 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

ban wynaut and trapinch too while we're at it

Not sure but are those 2 not OU already? 

 

Although I have never seen a Diglett vs me in NU I agree with KaynineXL. Diglett can trapp every special defensive wall besides Grumpig easily. Allowing a pokemon like Kadabra to sweep any thing once Diglett has done his job. 

Edited by Mnemosyne
rip me
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8 minutes ago, Mnemosyne said:

Not sure but are those 2 not OU already? 

 

Although I have never seen a Diglett vs me in NU I agree with KaynineXL. Diglett can trapp every special defensive wall besides Grumpig easily. Allowing a pokemon like Kadabra to sweep any thing once Diglett has done his job. 

It even traps Grumpig when you predict its rest. @Nobarsmcgee knows :)

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Okay some quotes from i read.

Spoiler

 

"How are [Discussion] threads made?

 

Each tier has their own discussion request thread in Competition Alley. Through there, players may request the tier council to open up a discussion thread on something they feel is banworthy. The tier council will then discuss the pokemon, and decide whether or not to open up a public discussion thread."

 

 

And

Spoiler

 

"Anything else?

 

Yes, I'd like to give credit to Smogon University for a majority, if not all of the concepts, principles, and ideas for which this tiering system and this portion of the guide are based on."

 

So diglet deserves to discuss if some people has problem. But about ban any poke

 

Spoiler

 

1) "  Tiering will continue to be usage based with a cut-off point of 4.36% for each tier "

2) " However, Wynaut, Trapinch, and Diglett, pokemon with Shadow Tag or Arena Trap, are still allowed in the game despite having these abilities. The reason for this is that they are not capable of abusing their ability quite as effectively as to being banworthy, meaning that despite being uncompetitive, they are not necessarily relevant enough to be banworthy. "

 

My personal opinion is , I met with 2 comp diglets till now at comp battles. But they were not good enough. And i dont think diglet at  4.36% .

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3 hours ago, KaynineXL said:

Lol

 

Enlighten me, how does one counter a trap/revenge killing Pokemon.

Scouting for it like you do with any other pokemon with trapping abilities, or shed hull. Of course if it's revenge killing you can't do much without shed hull, but that would mean you have already killed a special sweeper, and the opponent needs another special sweeper to profit from killing his special wall, and that special sweeper isn't necessarily granted to sweep. So I'm not saying diglet is bad, I'm just saying it's not broken and running one has it's flaws like with most of the pokemon in the tier.

Edited by Erayne
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6 hours ago, KaynineXL said:

You've probably lost your sp wall by that time to Diglett, the job is pretty much done. The thing is, Fearow is like the only good pursuiter we even have now, Scyther on the odd occasion can use it, but we're running very low on these "counters".

 

I'm not even sure we can define something that revenges as a counter, actually.

counters by definition need to be able to switch in. unless the poke diglett switches in on is a flying/levitate or holding the new escape item, nothing can switch. however that item IS a viable choice for special walls you do not want dig to trap and kill. 

 

@FinnTheMember go read 

 

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17 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

counters by definition need to be able to switch in. unless the poke diglett switches in on is a flying/levitate or holding the new escape item, nothing can switch. however that item IS a viable choice for special walls you do not want dig to trap and kill. 

 

@FinnTheMember go read 

 

I wouldn't really say shed hull is a viable choice for special walls. Raichu and kecleon already have difficulties vs a lot of special attackers considering most can go mixed or run toxic to cripple either of them. Raichu also needs those turns of leftovers recovery from wish+protect to safely answer electabuzz (cross chop) or specs walrein etc. I mean you're better off just running leftovers then running something to take advantage of a diglett like dd tropius or something of that nature. 

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2 hours ago, BurntZebra said:

I wouldn't really say shed hull is a viable choice for special walls. Raichu and kecleon already have difficulties vs a lot of special attackers considering most can go mixed or run toxic to cripple either of them. Raichu also needs those turns of leftovers recovery from wish+protect to safely answer electabuzz (cross chop) or specs walrein etc. I mean you're better off just running leftovers then running something to take advantage of a diglett like dd tropius or something of that nature. 

That just means they may not be good enough against diglett, and like all walls in this game have flaws, but it doesn't mean there are no counter measures for diglett (muk for example would do well). And you're also forgettin that running a diglett means wasting a slot in some cases, and that's why it's usage is still low.

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27 minutes ago, Erayne said:

That just means they may not be good enough against diglett, and like all walls in this game have flaws, but it doesn't mean there are no counter measures for diglett (muk for example would do well). And you're also forgettin that running a diglett means wasting a slot in some cases, and that's why it's usage is still low.

Wait how does Muk do well against diglett?

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27 minutes ago, Erayne said:

I just meant it's a viable special wall with shed hull, because that's what we were talkin about.

Yeah look I love muk as much as anyone but what's it doing against kadabra? lack of reliable recovery and crippling weakness to psychic means it's not walling many special attackers, though it's a decent tank

 

If you wanna argue against a diglett ban id focus on the positives diglett brings to the tier rather than trying to come up with counters. it has no counters.

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20 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Yeah look I love muk as much as anyone but what's it doing against kadabra? lack of reliable recovery and crippling weakness to psychic means it's not walling many special attackers, though it's a decent tank

 

If you wanna argue against a diglett ban id focus on the positives diglett brings to the tier rather than trying to come up with counters. it has no counters.

Well, I'd definitely ban kadabra instead of diglett XD much more op in my opinion (i know yours was just an example). Anyway kecleon can definitely run shed hull, of course it's gonna be less safe, but you can't have everything.

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