DoubleJ Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Without a recovery move aside from Rest, Poli's days are numbered without Wish Hypno support. Stall game sucks with Absol in the tier. 252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 73-87 (37 - 44.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 147-173 (74.6 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Absol Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 85-100 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Absol Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 56-67 (28.4 - 34%) -- 98.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery Link to comment
KaynineXL Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, DoubleJ said: Honestly though, without Hitmontop, there really is no reliable answer to Absol. It can very well get a kill every turn it's in against an offensive or defensive team so long as its opponent is slower. Relaxed Nidoqueen can wall it: 252+ Atk Choice Band Absol Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Nidoqueen: 90-106 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Ehh, tricky to have a moveset for everything with Absol, some things it likes to use like Mhorn, Spower, Pursuit are 3 main ones, QA is just real nice on the CB set since it's not that fast so it really does like that. Then you can add in ice beam for gligar on orb set, Return/Double edge to hit the Gligars/Nidoqueen/Muk/Qwilfish etc. aftershocker 1 Link to comment
BlackJovi Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 7 hours ago, DoubleJ said: Stall game sucks with Absol in the tier. good. jasonoon95, gbwead and DoubleJ 3 Link to comment
LifeStyle Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Impish/Relaxed Quagsire is lit to deal with Absol Link to comment
BlackJovi Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 53 minutes ago, LifeStyle said: Impish/Relaxed Quagsire is lit to deal with Absol until they start running toxic cuz that's just how NU works Link to comment
Torinnnnn Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 LF tier changes not based on usage Link to comment
RysPicz Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Can we finally get a Kingler discussion thread? Dukee and ShadowGary 2 Link to comment
ShadowGary Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 1 minute ago, RysPicz said: Can we finally get a Kingler discussion thread? And an Absol one too plz DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
pachima Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 The point is, all those counters you stated get wrekt by a special absol, besides quag which is meh cause toxic is everywhere. Link to comment
Otulp Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Are we trying to ban absol because it makes it harder to run stall? it can hit hard but its pretty slow imo. and you just have to play around scarfd. and isnt special absol garbage? Link to comment
LifeStyle Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 On 7/15/2016 at 3:39 PM, pachima said: The point is, all those counters you stated get wrekt by a special absol, besides quag which is meh cause toxic is everywhere. Quag, Poliwrath, Torkoal, and prolly some other things, and NU has some pretty good pokes to run Heal Bell. Link to comment
LifeStyle Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Blastoise NU, is dis real smh Gruul 1 Link to comment
Spaintakula Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 On 7/15/2016 at 7:19 AM, KaynineXL said: Relaxed Nidoqueen can wall it: 252+ Atk Choice Band Absol Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Nidoqueen: 90-106 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Ehh, tricky to have a moveset for everything with Absol, some things it likes to use like Mhorn, Spower, Pursuit are 3 main ones, QA is just real nice on the CB set since it's not that fast so it really does like that. Then you can add in ice beam for gligar on orb set, Return/Double edge to hit the Gligars/Nidoqueen/Muk/Qwilfish etc. High chance of 2hko if only 1 layer of spikes or the nidoqueen is even a bit scratched, so can't wall it all that well if it's fucked even if a small chunk of it's health is off. Just not that reliable, really. 1 hour ago, LifeStyle said: Blastoise NU, is dis real smh Isn't Lapras better, and that thing has been NU for a long time afaik Link to comment
LifeStyle Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 1 minute ago, Spaintakula said: Isn't Lapras better, and that thing has been NU for a long time afaik Lapras and Blastoise have very different roles tho. Lapras has DD set, Heal Bell set, Perish Song set while Blastoise has Support set with Rapid Spin, Scarf set with Water Spout or even mixed Life Orb set (Yes, dat shit works) Lapras has a better ability in Water Absorb, but it's weak to Rock+Fighting while Blastoise isn't. Lapras has more HP while Blastoise has more def/sp def. Both have to rely on Rest for recovery I don't really remember Lapras being as cancerous as I imagine Blastoise will be, there's a NU official tomorrow, so I guess we'll see how things go. ShadowGary 1 Link to comment
KaynineXL Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 (edited) I think the changes did a lot of good for NU. Nidoqueen gone which is a good thing because imo, that was so strong on NU.. I wanted a discussion on that personally. Blastoise comes down so we have a decent spinner, spikes were another thing that was just too OP before. None of the other spinners were great in NU. In fact Blastoise + Lapras makes Kingler less appealing to use. The others are w/e I guess. Edited August 8, 2016 by KaynineXL Osuki and BlackJovi 2 Link to comment
lFrankiel Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Damn , cancertop and cancerprass again in NU x( i cri Link to comment
Spaintakula Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 33 minutes ago, LifeStyle said: Lapras and Blastoise have very different roles tho. Lapras has DD set, Heal Bell set, Perish Song set while Blastoise has Support set with Rapid Spin, Scarf set with Water Spout or even mixed Life Orb set (Yes, dat shit works) Lapras has a better ability in Water Absorb, but it's weak to Rock+Fighting while Blastoise isn't. Lapras has more HP while Blastoise has more def/sp def. Both have to rely on Rest for recovery I don't really remember Lapras being as cancerous as I imagine Blastoise will be, there's a NU official tomorrow, so I guess we'll see how things go. Every pokemon has a different role if you number it like that. Lapras's DD set and Blastoise's Scarf/LO set are the same, both offensively orientated. Same goes with Lapras's Heal bell set vs support spin ballstoise, both require a certain amount of bulk for extensive durability. Also, just so you can compare how the stats make a difference: 130/80/95 > 79/100/105 252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blastoise: 328-385 (90.6 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO 252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lapras: 351-413 (75.6 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lapras: 291-346 (62.7 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 252-299 (69.6 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Link to comment
Laz Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Now that NIDOQUEEN is banned, I'm wondering how can we stop Volt tackle Raichu with HP Ice, and Surf. ( Hasty / Naive with life ball ) This thing can sweep now if well played, as it kills Poliwrath, Kecleon, Flareon, Tangela, Claydol, Walrein, Bellossom, Gligar, Solrock, Victreebell, Golem, Aggron. Torkoal, Misdreavus, Shuckle, and probably more. The only possible counter to it can be full defensive Muk with rest, but still not a perfect answer. E: Didn't run any calcs, just assumptions Edited August 8, 2016 by Lazaro23 Link to comment
Laz Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) . Edited August 8, 2016 by Lazaro23 Link to comment
Noad Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 1 minute ago, Lazaro23 said: Was a joke, as I edited it right away haha. No problem :) Ive removed my previous post as its now redundant with your recent edit. Hope the council will give you some input about the Raichu point you made! Laz 1 Link to comment
Artemiseta Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) bellossom is a decent answer. 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Bellossom: 122-146 (34.4 - 41.2%) -- 58.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 0 SpA Bellossom Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Raichu: 100-118 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO roselia can come in multiple times on raichu and with that set gets ko with sludge bomb 252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Roselia: 113-133 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Roselia: 187-221 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 0 SpA Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Raichu: 130-154 (49.8 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO roselia become shaky now with decent rolls it still wins tho. and again raichu will not have max att and sp att. if not max att. 0 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Roselia: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Roselia: 133-159 (43.7 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery both of these have synthesis and therefore can heal off all damage whiscash is great switch in 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 133-156 (36.8 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO yes I did with 0 hp invest as it can DD 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 133-156 (31.3 - 36.7%) -- 72.5% chance to 3HKO you can make it 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Whiscash: 97-116 (22.8 - 27.3%) -- 56.8% chance to 4HKO you still KO with EQ 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Whiscash: 265-312 (62.5 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO jut if yo change to hp grass. if hp grass roselia and bellossom answer it without any fear. I did these calcs giving you max sp att and att with the Naïve nature you said. if you put any speed into it at all these calcs with become smaller as it cannot have that many EVS hope it helps Edited August 8, 2016 by Artemiseta silly evolite Link to comment
xStarr Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Is quagsire still NU? It has water absorb plus can't b hit with volt tackle/tbolt. Hp ice won't do much 40 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said: Now that NIDOQUEEN is banned, I'm wondering how can we stop Volt tackle Raichu with HP Ice, and Surf. ( Hasty / Naive with life ball ) This thing can sweep now if well played, as it kills Poliwrath, Kecleon, Flareon, Tangela, Claydol, Walrein, Bellossom, Gligar, Solrock, Victreebell, Golem, Aggron. Torkoal, Misdreavus, Shuckle, and probably more. The only possible counter to it can be full defensive Muk with rest, but still not a perfect answer. E: Didn't run any calcs, just assumptions Link to comment
Laz Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 I think you made a mistake giving rosella and eviolite. Also bellossom gonna be on every team now, ain't that centralizing, being forced to run bellossom just because of raichu ? Although it's obvious that whishcash can wall Raichu, but Hp grass 1hko it 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 220-260 (101.3 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Inb4 252hp 252 sp.def, as it is very rarely used, and if it will be now, it'll be obviously because of Raichu Just now, xStarr said: Is quagsire still NU? It has water absorb plus can't b hit with volt tackle/tbolt. Hp ice won't do much No it's UU now xStarr 1 Link to comment
ShadowGary Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 10 minutes ago, Artemiseta said: bellossom is a decent answer. 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Bellossom: 122-146 (34.4 - 41.2%) -- 58.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 0 SpA Bellossom Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Raichu: 100-118 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO roselia can come in multiple times on raichu and with that set gets ko with sludge bomb 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 88-107 (28.9 - 35.1%) -- 11.3% chance to 3HKO 252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Eviolite Roselia: 116-136 (38.1 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Eviolite Roselia: 104-123 (34.2 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 0 SpA Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Raichu: 130-154 (49.8 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO both of these have synthesis and therefore can heal off all damage whiscash is great switch in 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 133-156 (36.8 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO yes I did with 0 hp invest as it can DD 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 133-156 (31.3 - 36.7%) -- 72.5% chance to 3HKO you can make it 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Whiscash: 97-116 (22.8 - 27.3%) -- 56.8% chance to 4HKO you still KO with EQ 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Whiscash: 265-312 (62.5 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO jut if yo change to hp grass. if hp grass roselia and bellossom answer it without any fear. I did these calcs giving you max sp att and att with the Naïve nature you said. if you put any speed into it at all these calcs with become smaller as it cannot have that many EVS hope it helps accidently put Eviolite on Roselia. Link to comment
Artemiseta Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 opps silly thing put evolite on roselia I can fix in a moment Link to comment
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