close this making new better sugestion

[fredrichnietze]

so we all have heard the story of the legendary dungeons fabled to come to mmo someday(tm). and while it's not finished yet and we haven't been given much information, the legendary dungeons are clearly intended to be the meta game content we all need.

however the most important aspect of it i have heard no mention of. team raids. pokeMMO is a mmo, and all mmo need to reward teams working together to do something, otherwise why not make this single player? the legendary dungeons need to be something where your team gets together to do it, not one guy alone on a empty ch grinding for hours. 

possible ways to do this:

• have a long cool down timer per account, but allow people to bring large groups with them and not hit their timers. that way 10 people can go in ten times. this rewards working together and promotes people logging on and playing with their friends which makes it fun instead of a a grind.
• have a charge to get in, but allow people to bring a group with them. see above but replace entry fee with coll down timer.
• have no timers/cost to get in, but have the difficulty scaled to a 42/10. throw a 100x 100's before you hit the legendary, but if you go in groups the pokemon go after everyone instead of one person and each person only has to fight a fraction of the npcs.

or whatever you guys think is best. most important part is to promote team play over anti social grinding alone. the meta game content will be what everyone going to be doing for thousands of hours. pls do it right the first time.

Edited November 19, 2017 by fredrichnietze

[Darkshade]

We have discussed internally the possibility of having both co-op and single player dungeons.

 

There are Legendaries such as the Eon Duo that are two in a pair and don't have any lore tied to them as singular entities, they're always a pair.

It is Legendaries such as these that we may be able to provide a co-operative experience for, as they would allow for a potential prize for both participants.

 

Full team raids are not something we've had much time to discuss and unfortunately there are only limited amounts of space to a party, it's certainly an interesting concept and something we may discuss.

 

There is always the possibility of opening every dungeon up to full links, however the legendary would likely not be able to be obtained by every participant.

 

EDIT: Cooldown timers are ineffective if a player is able to transfer the things they require to run a dungeon onto another character and try again whilst waiting for the timer on their first character to cool off.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Darkshade

[fredrichnietze]

how about a system where you have maybe a 10% chance of getting a legendary at the end, and everyone else gets bag of items full of pp ups, shards, maybe bp or yen or reward points randomized mystery box style. that way people have a reason to go back into the dungeon again and again to get multiple legendaries but after they get them they still have a reason to go back. maybe add a system where players can choose not to get a legendary to up the chances for their team mates getting one?

[Quakkz]

how about a system where you have maybe a 10% chance of getting a legendary at the end, and everyone else gets bag of items full of pp ups, shards, maybe bp or yen or reward points randomized mystery box style. that way people have a reason to go back into the dungeon again and again to get multiple legendaries but after they get them they still have a reason to go back. maybe add a system where players can choose not to get a legendary to up the chances for their team mates getting one?

a lootbag at the end sounds pretty nice

[XelaKebert]

I definitely like this idea a lot. The loot bag idea for end would be a great addition as well. It would make it feel like the legend is guarding some sort of treasure as well.

[Gilan]

I have (what I think is a really good) idea for this topic. I'll write it all out when I get home to my compute

Ok, so what I was thinking was something like this:

 

First the main points:

1. Maximum of 10 players (minimum 1 Player)

2. Size of dungeon scales according to the number of players

3. Number of NPC's scales according to the number of players

4. The dungeon will work on a point system

5. Players will be ranked against eachother at the end of the dungeon to determine how many credits each player gets

6. Credits obtained in the dungeons can be spent on various rewards (similar to the game corner)

 

Basically what I envision as the dungeon is a big maze. The players will work together to find the end and beat the boss (a strong NPC, not the legendary pokemon). There will be random NPCs strewn throughout the maze to up the difficulty. Players that defeat NPCs will receive small point bonuses. The player who defeats the most NPCs by the dungeon's end will receive a hearty point bonus. NPC's pokemon will not heal automatically after battle (thus they can be slowly whittled down if necessary). Players are capable of running away from NPCs if so desired. Players who inflict the most damage against NPC pokemon at the dungeon's end will receive a medium point bonus. Players will be able to use healing items outside of battle, but healing items may not be brought into the dungeon. Healing items will be able to be obtained in the dungeon itself, and they will disappear when the dungeon is complete. If a Player is defeated in battle, they will return to the starting room (or checkpoint) and be given a point deduction. The legendary pokemon(s) of the dungeon will be random encounters, so based on luck. I don't know if they should be allowed to be caught or not, but the player who defeats them will receive a hearty point bonus. The player who defeats the boss of the dungeon will receive a hearty point bonus. There will also be puzzles in the dungeon (such as boulder puzzles to access a switch, etc.). Each switch a player hits will give them a very small point bonus. The player who hits the most switches will receive a medium point bonus.

 

Once the dungeon is complete (i.e. the boss is defeated, and everyone agrees to end the dungeon, similar to runescape's dungeoneering skill) the game will tally up each player's points and then rank them. The more points you have, the higher your rank. Everyone will receive credits equal to the number of points they achieved in the dungeon. Everyone will receive "participation" credits. Everyone will then receive a multiplier to those credits based on how quickly the group finished the dungeon. Then everyone will receive credits that scale according to the rank they achieved. The credits earned will be able to be spent on prizes, such as legendary pokemon, items, lootbags (Fred's), etc.

 

With this system, group play is encouraged (as you will get more points generally and you will have more fun). You will be cooperating with your teammates to get through the dungeon, but you will also be competing with them at the same time. Something that I think will make a very fun environment. Also, with my current understanding of how the devs want to make the legend dungeons, they would make the legendary pokemon random? for each dungeon. With this, it doesn't matter the dungeon you go into, as you will be able to choose which legendary you buy with the credits you earn. Also, with the credit system, it will provide a new method to grind for items, which promotes diversity, which this game is seriously lacking. But the main point of this, will be the incredible social aspect that I think it would bring.

 

Also, with groups, you could have leaderboards in game which display each team with the fastest dungeon time (i.e. solo player leader: KingBowser with a time of 1:32; 6 team leader: Kingbowser, DoubleJ, Thinknice, Senile, Darkshade, Tranzmaster with a time of 2:13; etc).

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

P.S.

 

We have discussed internally the possibility of having both co-op and single player dungeons.

If you are only going to make it single or duo player, then you are seriously wasting a lot of potential with the general idea of legendary dungeons.

[Darkshade]

With this system, group play is encouraged (as you will get more points generally and you will have more fun). You will be cooperating with your teammates to get through the dungeon, but you will also be competing with them at the same time. Something that I think will make a very fun environment. Also, with my current understanding of how the devs want to make the legend dungeons, they would make the legendary pokemon random? for each dungeon. With this, it doesn't matter the dungeon you go into, as you will be able to choose which legendary you buy with the credits you earn. Also, with the credit system, it will provide a new method to grind for items, which promotes diversity, which this game is seriously lacking. But the main point of this, will be the incredible social aspect that I think it would bring.

 

We plan to have themed separate dungeons for each legendary, and also intend to make the legendary the final Boss; not an NPC.

[Quakkz]

Ok, so what I was thinking was something like this:

 

First the main points:

1. Maximum of 10 players (minimum 1 Player)

2. Size of dungeon scales according to the number of players

3. Number of NPC's scales according to the number of players

4. The dungeon will work on a point system

5. Players will be ranked against eachother at the end of the dungeon to determine how many credits each player gets

6. Credits obtained in the dungeons can be spent on various rewards (similar to the game corner)

 

Basically what I envision as the dungeon is a big maze. The players will work together to find the end and beat the boss (a strong NPC, not the legendary pokemon). There will be random NPCs strewn throughout the maze to up the difficulty. Players that defeat NPCs will receive small point bonuses. The player who defeats the most NPCs by the dungeon's end will receive a hearty point bonus. NPC's pokemon will not heal automatically after battle (thus they can be slowly whittled down if necessary). Players are capable of running away from NPCs if so desired. Players who inflict the most damage against NPC pokemon at the dungeon's end will receive a medium point bonus. Players will be able to use healing items outside of battle, but healing items may not be brought into the dungeon. Healing items will be able to be obtained in the dungeon itself, and they will disappear when the dungeon is complete. If a Player is defeated in battle, they will return to the starting room (or checkpoint) and be given a point deduction. The legendary pokemon(s) of the dungeon will be random encounters, so based on luck. I don't know if they should be allowed to be caught or not, but the player who defeats them will receive a hearty point bonus. The player who defeats the boss of the dungeon will receive a hearty point bonus. There will also be puzzles in the dungeon (such as boulder puzzles to access a switch, etc.). Each switch a player hits will give them a very small point bonus. The player who hits the most switches will receive a medium point bonus.

 

Once the dungeon is complete (i.e. the boss is defeated, and everyone agrees to end the dungeon, similar to runescape's dungeoneering skill) the game will tally up each player's points and then rank them. The more points you have, the higher your rank. Everyone will receive credits equal to the number of points they achieved in the dungeon. Everyone will receive "participation" credits. Everyone will then receive a multiplier to those credits based on how quickly the group finished the dungeon. Then everyone will receive credits that scale according to the rank they achieved. The credits earned will be able to be spent on prizes, such as legendary pokemon, items, lootbags (Fred's), etc.

 

With this system, group play is encouraged (as you will get more points generally and you will have more fun). You will be cooperating with your teammates to get through the dungeon, but you will also be competing with them at the same time. Something that I think will make a very fun environment. Also, with my current understanding of how the devs want to make the legend dungeons, they would make the legendary pokemon random? for each dungeon. With this, it doesn't matter the dungeon you go into, as you will be able to choose which legendary you buy with the credits you earn. Also, with the credit system, it will provide a new method to grind for items, which promotes diversity, which this game is seriously lacking. But the main point of this, will be the incredible social aspect that I think it would bring.

 

Also, with groups, you could have leaderboards in game which display each team with the fastest dungeon time (i.e. solo player leader: KingBowser with a time of 1:32; 6 team leader: Kingbowser, DoubleJ, Thinknice, Senile, Darkshade, Tranzmaster with a time of 2:13; etc).

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

P.S.

 

If you are only going to make it single or duo player, then you are seriously wasting a lot of potential with the general idea of legendary dungeons.

dunno, i feel like points as a reward to buy stuff doesnt feel like a real dungeon experience, i think random loot would be a nicer way

[Gilan]

We intend to have themed separate dungeons for each legendary, and also intend to make the legendary the final Boss; not an NPC.

OK, so it will be grind in no challenge. Cool. I really don't like the idea of having the legendary as the final Boss >.>

 

I mean, I get why you're doing it. But I just think it will be lame, and seriously no cooperative play...

 

Maybe it's just me...

[Darkshade]

OK, so it will be grind in no challenge. Cool. I really don't like the idea of having the legendary as the final Boss >.>

 

I mean, I get why you're doing it. But I just think it will be lame, and seriously no cooperative play...

 

Maybe it's just me...

 

I did not say no co-operative play, I just said it was not something we have had a chance to discuss. (Keep in mind that links are only a recent thing)

 

Additionally I firmly believe that having the legendary as the Final Boss will make for a far more exciting conclusion.

There is going to be challenge, and a lot of it.

[fredrichnietze]

after seeing some of the crazy large scale battles of runescape, wow, andeve, and other mmo's i think a 10 limit cap for the dungeon is wasting potential. 

 

i agree with most of your points gilian, but i dont think the point system is a good idea. better random or semi random system seems better and more "hey i can get something crazy good" hype everytime. only more often then shiny rate so the hype doesnt die with repetitive low rolls.

 

and timed group boards sound awesome. make it another competition where teams would compete to be #1

 

also the loot bags are a old video game concept i can not claim credit.

 

 

Additionally I firmly believe that having the legendary as the Final Boss will make for a far more exciting conclusion.

There is going to be challenge, and a lot of it.

agreed 100%

[Gilan]

after seeing some of the crazy large scale battles of runescape, wow, andeve, and other mmo's i think a 10 limit cap for the dungeon is wasting potential. 

I just don't know how much the game could actually handle.

 

 

i agree with most of your points gilian, but i dont think the point system is a good idea. better random or semi random system seems better and more "hey i can get something crazy good" hype everytime. only more often then shiny rate so the hype doesnt die with repetitive low rolls.

OK. But there would, imo, have to be some sort of competition within the group. Like, the player who contributed the most get's the best chance for the "better" loot, and then it scales down from there.

 

Also: "gilian" ;-;

 

 

also the loot bags are a old video game concept i can not claim credit.

You were the one who brought it up and made me think about it.

 

 

I did not say no co-operative play, I just said it was not something we have had a chance to discuss. (Keep in mind that links are only a recent thing)

 

Additionally I firmly believe that having the legendary as the Final Boss will make for a far more exciting conclusion.

There is going to be challenge, and a lot of it.

I meant cooperative play in terms of the final boss; unless you mean that 2 players would be able to fight 1 OP as hell, base stats boosted, legendary at once... What I was thinking with the NPC final boss is that he would have legendary pokemon on his team (not some random NPC), hell, he could even be Trainer Red. He would be extremely difficult to take out, and would likely take more than one try (considering his pokemon wouldn't regenerate to full HP after losing to him); so it would generally be a team effort to take him out. Just having a single legendary at the end doesn't seem like a challenge, imho.

 

 

edit:

Still going on the NPC final boss. Have NPCs at the end equal to the number of players, and make it a mix of double and single battles, so everyone is battling at the end.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Gilan

[Darkshade]

I meant cooperative play in terms of the final boss; unless you mean that 2 players would be able to fight 1 OP as hell, base stats boosted, legendary at once..

 

That is exactly what I mean, however it's not something we have properly discussed.

 

Initially we had planned for a single player to take on a boosted legendary; for a team of >1 it would require additional boosts.

And currently we can only support battles consisting of 2 players, but we shall see.

[Gilan]

That is exactly what I mean.

ok, then that's fine. Didn't think that would actually happen. I still get the vibe that you guys only plan to make it max 2 players per dungeon though.

[OldKeith]

Just here to mention cooldown does work if it requires active play time, such as egg hatching, for example.

[XelaKebert]

One thing that would work with this idea would be to borrow the bonus objective system from Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles where each player has their own bonus objective to work on. One person would get bonus points for opening chests while another would get bonus points for avoiding damage. At the end each player is scored and ranked based on how well they did on that objective. The player who scored the highest would be the first to pick one of the artifacts that were found in the dungeon.

 

How would this work here? Well the system would have to be scaled appropriately. Tasks could be along the lines of "Don't use potions" or "Avoid having a Pokemon faint". There could be a set pool of valuable items like Rare Candies, TMs, and Lucky Eggs. At the end each player would get to pick 1 item from the pool of items that were found. Not all items have to go into the pool either. Things like Revives and Potions would stay bound to the player inventory, but more valuable items would be placed into the collective pool.

[fredrichnietze]

the problem with the bonus system is half the goals conflicted with the main goal. the "dont kill enemies" one where the only way to win is kill the main boss and a few hundred enemies in between. if they could do this in a way where it would be difficult but not conflicting that would be great, but so would semi random rewards thing or half a dozen other ways.

[XelaKebert]

the problem with the bonus system is half the goals conflicted with the main goal. the "dont kill enemies" one where the only way to win is kill the main boss and a few hundred enemies in between. if they could do this in a way where it would be difficult but not conflicting that would be great, but so would semi random rewards thing or half a dozen other ways.

 

The goals could be things like:

 

Don't use potions

Don't run from battles

Don't let a Pokemon faint

Pickup items

Don't pickup items

 

I'm sure there are more, but I do agree that the bonus goals shouldn't conflict with the objective though. None of this, Run from every battle thing.

[KingofChess]

I like this idea a lot. As time passes, less people would go so even a full team could do it without any outsider. It'd make a pretty cool pic or vid.

[XelaKebert]

I like this idea a lot. As time passes, less people would go so even a full team could do it without any outsider. It'd make a pretty cool pic or vid.

The thing with dungeons that has already been addressed is that they will be instanced. This means that they will be handled like your secret base in Hoenn. You and your team go into the dungeon and get placed in a private channel and come out on the next channel that isn't overcrowded when you're done. No need to worry about having a ton of people running around during your raid and such.

[Jate]

LF Pokemon mystery dungeon style gameplay where each player from a team gets to control a pokemon of theirs.

[fredrichnietze]

thoughts on semi randomizing the maps? having a pool of say 20-100 layouts of each map and when a team/person goes in it you get one of the maps, but then the next you go in you get a different one. you could release the maps or just keep em secret and with the time factor mentioned earlier it would add a layer of difficulty and complexity to getting through the dungeon giving people another thing to try to work together to do. map the dungeon and find the end as a group on a short amount of time. it would also make it more enjoyable as you arent running through the same dungeons every single time.

 

from what i understand making maps is relatively easy? 

[KingofChess]

So how/where would you enter the dungeons? Would there be dungeons in Kanto & Hoenn and how would you enter them? Unless you had like prof. oak or your rival tell you about it I don't see how it'd work.

Rival[Imma name him Gary]: Hey <name>! I'm so far ahead of you! Did you know that there was a place to go defeat a LEGENDARY Pokemon? Heh, bet'cha didn't! Well whatevs, I'm gonna go train some more! Smell ya later!

 

Professor Oak: Ah <name>! I've been look around for you! I need your help. There's a dungeon which has a Pokemon of an extremely skillful level! With eight badges, you may stand a chance!

[fredrichnietze]

So how/where would you enter the dungeons? Would there be dungeons in Kanto & Hoenn and how would you enter them? Unless you had like prof. oak or your rival tell you about it I don't see how it'd work.

Rival[Imma name him Gary]: Hey <name>! I'm so far ahead of you! Did you know that there was a place to go defeat a LEGENDARY Pokemon? Heh, bet'cha didn't! Well whatevs, I'm gonna go train some more! Smell ya later!

 

Professor Oak: Ah <name>! I've been look around for you! I need your help. There's a dungeon which has a Pokemon of an extremely skillful level! With eight badges, you may stand a chance!

i think this should filled under "who cares?"

 

i mean does the method of how they implement it story wise matter at all? there is a million ways they could do it and all of them are equally as good/bad and dont matter except what affects gameplay. 

[fredrichnietze]

close this i have had a lot of time to think and going to significantly change the suggestion and make a new thread.