BurntZebra Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I wouldn't go that far. Aggron is an amazing special wall. He can come on cradily curse safely (very few pokemons can do that). He is also a good check to venomoth. Edit: He was one of the only counters to jynx in the pts and the meta without jynx doesn't make him less viable imo. +1 4 Atk Cradily Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 116-140 (79.4 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO wouldn't really want to switch in aggron vs something that often has earthquake to compliment its stab rock slide. Also I wouldn't really call it a special wall as it only really walls psychic types, which are already becoming less common because of sharpedo/absol. Robofiend 1 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 +1 4 Atk Cradily Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 116-140 (79.4 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO wouldn't really want to switch in aggron vs something that often has earthquake to compliment its stab rock slide. Also I wouldn't really call it a special wall as it only really walls psychic types, which are already becoming less common because of sharpedo/absol. Kadabra is becoming more popular because it can stop both dead in their tracks (although CB Absol still pursuit traps with QA/Pursuit) Link to comment
gbwead Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 +1 4 Atk Cradily Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 116-140 (79.4 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO wouldn't really want to switch in aggron vs something that often has earthquake to compliment its stab rock slide. Also I wouldn't really call it a special wall as it only really walls psychic types, which are already becoming less common because of sharpedo/absol. Oh ya, i meant the Cradily set with giga drain and rock slide which i found better in term of coverage. I forgot about quake. Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 I wouldn't rank Aggron anything higher than B. It's so damn unreliable and quite frankly - a dumb Pokemon. It should be a defensive "wall" but if every physical attacker almost OHKOs you and special attacker as well and then the speed is absolutely awful.. It's all about base stats which I think are the highest of all NU but the fact it's so unreliable Pokemon which only main use is to slow down CBers then I can kinda see why it hasn't been used once in first two NU officials. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
OldKeith Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I wouldn't rank Aggron anything higher than B. It's so damn unreliable and quite frankly - a dumb Pokemon. It should be a defensive "wall" but if every physical attacker almost OHKOs you and special attacker as well and then the speed is absolutely awful.. It's all about base stats which I think are the highest of all NU but the fact it's so unreliable Pokemon which only main use is to slow down CBers then I can kinda see why it hasn't been used once in first two NU officials. Aggron's niche is coming in on band-locked stuff and setting up substitutes on them, imo. If birds were more popular he would see more usage. In UU it is great if your opponent carries a Swellow, for example. It gets a guaranteed sub every time. Focus Punch, Earthquake and Ice Punch cover pretty much anything you need, even if you give up on STAB. Fearow was UU last time by usage, but it may drop. Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Aggron's niche is coming in on band-locked stuff and setting up substitutes on them, imo. If birds were more popular he would see more usage. In UU it is great if your opponent carries a Swellow, for example. It gets a guaranteed sub every time. Focus Punch, Earthquake and Ice Punch cover pretty much anything you need, even if you give up on STAB. Fearow was UU last time by usage, but it may drop. I'm a bit surprised fearow was still UU since swellow is better overall for UU with its speed/ability. Pidgeot doesn't really seem that viable since there's armaldo/aggron/cradily/golem to stop it and its speed tier isn't that great either (lf gen 6 base stat changes). In NU, pretty much every stab normal has coverage for aggron, low kick on zangoose, earthquake on stantler, I don't know any other normal choice banders at the top of my head... Unfortunately non cb aggron doesn't even hit that hard and relies completely on getting super effective hits to do any significant damage. Arimanius 1 Link to comment
OldKeith Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I'm a bit surprised fearow was still UU since swellow is better overall for UU with its speed/ability. Drill peck I guess, or just people who didn't have time to breed swellow. It looks to be going NU soon though, so Fearow might make Aggron more of a thing. Link to comment
KaynineXL Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Fearow is NU would be deadly. Drill peck will reaaaly hurt as it is.. But then you've got to factor in one of the most popular walls, Hitmontop cannot even come in on it. Edited July 24, 2015 by KaynineXL gbwead 1 Link to comment
gbwead Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Fearow is NU would be deadly. Drill peck will reaaaly hurt as it is.. But then you've got to factor in one of the most popular walls, Hitmontop cannot even come in on it. More love for Ampharos then, thats fine with me ^^ But ya, it would top tier for sure. Arimanius and DoubleJ 2 Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Isn't it weird though? This is a tier with 1 ban and there isn't a single Pokemon that everyone is like "Yeah this shit is S rank no doubt". Robofiend, gbwead, DrCraig and 1 other 4 Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Isn't it weird though? This is a tier with 1 ban and there isn't a single Pokemon that everyone is like "Yeah this shit is S rank no doubt". doubles has one ban(mewtwo) and we dont really have one single pokemon where everyone says "yeah this shit is S rank no doubt" Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 doubles has one ban(mewtwo) and we dont really have one single pokemon where everyone says "yeah this shit is S rank no doubt" Metagross. OldKeith and DrCraig 2 Link to comment
OldKeith Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Fearow is NU would be deadly. Drill peck will reaaaly hurt as it is.. But then you've got to factor in one of the most popular walls, Hitmontop cannot even come in on it. Might be up for debate actually. Fearow can't really touch Aggron, Solrock or Defensive Cradily. Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Metagross. trick room+trapinch=gg metagross Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 trick room+trapinch=gg metagross Doubles cough. Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Metagross. i think i had trouble with a metagross once? like ever. phys movepool is m mash/boom/t punch/i punch(why does no one use?)/eq/rs(why does no one use) m mash is nice stab but basically shit offensively. too many things resist that are popular no enough common things weak too. boom is a gamble cause rock/steel/protect/ghost/sub + meta needs agility to be sure to get it off before anyone faster subs. t punch meet lightning rod and volt absorb and ground types, plus only really good vs waters not named swampert, since neutral m mash>t punch 2x (what is att boost) i punch no one uses but is good vs dragons and not much else. anything 2x weak to ice that takes neutral to steel is better to use steel on since stab m mash and att boost EQ is great but levitate/fly is very popular in doubles and you can not always switch to a levitate/fly poke of your own safely as EQ is mostly useful vs elektriks with generally hit the levitate/fly pokes like gyara, sala, dnite, gengar, ect... pretty hard; and other metas. also doubles att drop. rockslide literally never seen a rs meta, but would be kewl. also non stab so the 56.25 power attack is not so good to begin with unless you are agility boosted and h hand or att boost from m mash. TL;DR predictable with 2 good offensive moves(one which kills meta and is risky). and a ton of moves that can be useful in limited situations only. the immunity to intimidate is nice, but meta will only ever be a bulky wall breaker that is easy to play around. Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Alright guys let's remember this is NU viability thread, not doubles (: DoubleJ and DrCraig 2 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Isn't it weird though? This is a tier with 1 ban and there isn't a single Pokemon that everyone is like "Yeah this shit is S rank no doubt". I think we're just too used to the S-ranks being obviously banworthy and S-rank, not just S-rank. For instance, Clefable and M-Charizard X are currently S-ranks in ORAS OU, despite the fact that both of them are straight up countered by other common pokemon (Heatran and M-Altaria). In fact, both of these pokemon are practically useless against certain team archetypes (Clef struggles with Hyper Offense, Zard struggles with Rocks, Sand Teams, Rain Teams, etc.) I think NU is bound for the same type of metagame, where everything has checks and can be really threatening, especially when it gets set up. I'm also excited to see if NU stall ever materializes. As far as other pokes: S: Cradily -because it can Curse up and resist pretty much everything at least enough to kill it. It even survives Kadabra's SE Signal Beam. Lapras - because it can DD up in the face of many a bulky water, while boasting Bolt/Beam to take down grasses and other waters. While the DD set can checked by Mantine/Tangela (if it lacks the appropriate coverage move) its ability to either Perish Trap, Para with Body Slam or Ice Beam/Thunderbolt everything else in the tier is pretty scary. It doesn't help that it's also bulky as fuck so nothing can OHKO it, if it's running the right set. A+: Ampharos - dat versatility combined with a terrifying STAB Scyther - dat speed tier, dat STAB, dat Unviability of Aggron Zangoose - Good but not god, +2 STAB QA is scary and the coverage is real A: Golduck - dat CM and total lack of fear about typical special walls : Surf, Signal Beam and Psychic provides great Neutral and SE coverage and with a couple CM boosts it can break through weakened Mantines or Ampharoses. Mantine - this pokemon seems really bad, but is actually not so bad. It's the only viable Hazer in the tier (besides Crobat, who's pretty meh) and it's pretty effective at Toxic stalling, hitting Grass types like Roselia and Tangela with Air Cutter and Keeping threats like Poliwrath at bay. It gets special mention as a great defensive core member who needs to be statused, hit with HP Electric, or Rock-slided out of play to truly be beaten. Tangela - while completely weak on Special Defense, base 100 SpA combined with Sludge Bomb, Ancient Power, Giga Drain, and the standard Grass status moves make Tangela a top-tier Defensive wall who can bait other Grass, Fire, Bug and Flying types in and then blast them for decent damage. B+: Kadabra: dat special sweeper, Calm Mind is Gangster and the only thing Dabs should fear is QA because it's like a piece of paper Whishcash: one of the tier's only great Dragon Dancers, but it hasn't got shit to say to Tangela, who's actually pretty viable. Also, Orange, can we start getting some preliminary rankings? gbwead, Arimanius and OrangeManiac 3 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Agree with Robo on everything. If you want to play anti-meta Whiscash you can drop Spark for Ice Beam to yank about 75% health from an incoming Tangela. Leaves you vulnerable to Mantine though ofc. I would consider Golduck for A+. It has incredible coverage, power, and speed. HP Electric makes it unstoppable as Mantine can no longer wall it. Electabuzz for A. Without the punches, it's coverage is choked down, but fortunately it can now take advantage of twave or even quick attack alongside hp and psychic. That speed and that stab tbolt are mean enough. Robofiend 1 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Agreed with the above ranks pretty much, although with ampharos so common and so beastly I see ebuzz as more of a B/B+. I also love mantine but it really sucks that it doesn't get reliable recovery, making rest talk or wish support almost a must for longevity. I don't know if that's enough to bump it down to B, though Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 While it does have a strong counter, it's ability to force a switch and also bait ampharos is pretty nice. I'd still consider an A. Link to comment
KaynineXL Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Hmm, imo Cradily S rank fo sho. Not sure about Lapras, never had any problems with it tbh. Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) We need more cradily's being used. Edit: actuality just more nu Edited July 28, 2015 by DoubleJ KaynineXL 1 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Hmm, imo Cradily S rank fo sho. Not sure about Lapras, never had any problems with it tbh. Did you not see the part where Cradily was going to sweep your team today and then that para saved you? ;) DrCraig 1 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I'd say buzz gets a B+, yeah it's sick but you should be using Kadabra if you're for real. Buzz is too easily walled. Also I havent used Camerupt yet but it seems like A rank material as a wall, it seriously stops everything but water, which is pretty rare right now. edit: sorry for double, am retard Edited July 28, 2015 by Robofiend Link to comment
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