NU Viability Thread

[OrangeManiac]

I've tried Dragon Dance Lapras and was mildly dissapointed by it in NU tier. Also there are no walls you need to Perish Trap, maybe other than Grumpig. I think a special offensive tank is the best set for Lapras. It's nothing special, just taking damage nicely and giving it back. Just doing that thing really nicely with great base stats. I'd rank it A personally.

[gbwead]

The thing that bothers me with lapras is that it can run a crazy amount of movesets in combination with multiple possibilities in ev spread.

 

252+ SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lapras: 170-204 (82.9 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (modest ampharos)

This means that CB Lapras (I haven't seen any yet, but why not XD) and DD Lapras can kill ampharos quite easily.

 

If I put a physical or special wall in front of lapras, there is the risk of getting trapped if I don't run Whirlwind or roar (not every wall can learn these moves).

 

I would maybe see him as A+ or even S, but I guess that depends on the rank of the other threats of the tier.

 

Edit: nvm S would be too much (no good recovery moves beside rest / a serious downfall for an agressive tier like NU)

Edited July 12, 2015 by lamerb

[fredrichnietze]

I've tried Dragon Dance Lapras and was mildly dissapointed by it in NU tier. Also there are no walls you need to Perish Trap, maybe other than Grumpig. I think a special offensive tank is the best set for Lapras. It's nothing special, just taking damage nicely and giving it back. Just doing that thing really nicely with great base stats. I'd rank it A personally.

remember when i wanted to move lapras to uu and everyone said "NNNOOO TOO STWONG WAY OP!" because of dd and perish set after i proved the spec set wasnt broken?. 

 

also resto chesto + dd/and 2 attacks (normal + waterfall look best) seems to be best dd lapras set.

[BurntZebra]

DD lapras downfall is hitmontop which has enough special defense to take an uninvested ice beam and is 5hko'ed by 252 atk waterfall from lapras after intimidate/dd. Along with stab fighting to kill lapras quickly. Perish trap pokemon in general always felt kind of uncompetitive to me because they basically have a 50% to kill any pokemon as long as they can force a switch and survive a hit, or 100% to trap if they can force a switch and survive two hits. Lapras can do that fairly easily, but whirlwind grumpig and special invested ampharos can both threaten perish trap lapras. 

[OrangeManiac]

I'll wait for new NU usage and start to make a rough draft of this, everyone pls contribute to this now

[DrCraig]

I'd give Tangela an A ranking for being fat, taking on the water/ground spammers and giving that leech support.

 

I'd give Roselia and Caturne both B+ rankings. They are both the top spikers, aside Glalie. Roselia takes advantage of all the common types with its great special bulk and dual stabs. It's special defensive can also handle threats like Ampharos. Cacturne functions has a great DEF wall, and with protect, great support against banders it cannot wall. It is squishier then Tangela, but also has an offensive side to hit through its huge ATK and SATK stats.

 

I'd give Grumpig an A rank for being the best phazer, and answer to pokemon physical and special because of its crazy bulk. It can run a plethora of supporting moves now, but is prone to pursuit trapping.

 

I'd give Ampharos an A+ rank for the bulk it has combined with a huge stab thunderbolt that destroys most of the tiers common walls. It also has access to focus punch and signal beam which can cover its counters. It'd bulk allows it to take on most special threats, namely Electabuzz which is huge. The problem with Amphy which would warrant a lower rank is teh lack of recovery.

 

I'd give Solrock a B Rank for it's great defensive typing and offensive presence. However the choice between a spread for defense and offensive is a big trade which will hurt Solrock's def/atk presence accordingly. Solrock has a nice movepool, and great typing to take on EQ spammers, normal spammers, and fire users.

 

I'd give Sandslash a B+ ranking. Sandslash has great support capabilities through movesets containing rapid spin, toxic, and superfang paired with its amazing DEF bulk. Also it has great offense with its decent speed, high ATK, and Sword Dance capability.

 

I'd give Stantler a B+ ranking, maybe higher, for being one the scariest normal spammers in the tier. Stantler's offensive movepool is a great, its fast, has nice attack and access to intimidate.

 

I'd give Scyther a B+ ranking for its great typing which great for synergy in the tier. Scyther is one of the fastest in the tier, having access to Sword Dance sets, CB sets, and Reversal sets which all prove to be threatening.

 

I'd stop now.

[Arimanius]

I'll wait for new NU usage and start to make a rough draft of this, everyone pls contribute to this now

 

Well I did something years ago and no one else reply but I'll insist xD

 

After watching the last tournaments I still see Zangoose as A or A+, he's so fragil that people don't want to take the risk in a switch or anything like that, he's just used as a revenge killer in most cases, cb set is really stoppable after you know what he's gonna do or switching to a good bulky pokemon that can take a hit, sword dance set is the scarier but still I haven't see anything else a Sword dance pinsir or a sword dance scyther or a sword dance kabutops can't do ofc if u played well and u found a great opportunity to use it late game then ofc it's gonna do some damage.

 

Tangela and Grumpig for me are A, tangela is really fragile in the special side almost any special attack can 0HKO or 2HKO and its movepool is really short. Grumpig well it can be pursuit trapped so for me that's a great disadvantage the only way it can avoid that is being a timid full sp sweeper or at least a timid bulky sweeper with full hp and full speed which is not how it is used in most of the cases.

 

Ampharos is everywhere with screen support, heal bell and good coverage with signal beam, thunderbolt and a good hp, good bulk, a great ability that is activated in most cases and only one weakness it is pretty useful so I would give it a A+

 

I saw Cradily and Armaldo almost everywhere yesterday. Cradily's curse set is pretty annoying like a lot, he's really hard to take down even with super effective hits and with recover it is really painful to take down, you're best bet against it I think is toxic otherwise it will give u hard time, I would go with a A+. Armaldo compared with Cradily it doesn't have instant recover even though he can be more destructive if used right but IMO it's inferior to Cradily so I'd go with a B+ for it

 

I think that's it for me now

 

EDIT: Oh plz Craig :(

Edited July 18, 2015 by Arimanius

[OrangeManiac]

I disagree with Roselia, otherwise agreeing with the ranks a lot

Oh and Cradily needs to be A at absolute minimum, it's disastrous. Yet if literally no one is using it ranking it too high just doesn't make sense. I personally seen it action would consider it possible S.

I think Scyther's speed ranking amount the very top of viable NU (with Ebuzz) and 105 attack make it a bit higher than B+. Might give longer reasoning later.

Edited July 18, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[DrCraig]

What's fitting up there at S?

Zangoose? Like idk

Are we too critical?

[OrangeManiac]

What's fitting up there at S?

Zangoose? Like idk

Are we too critical?

 

I can't rank a barely top 10 used NU mon S. I just can't. I'd personally rank it at A+. 

I wouldn't rank literally anything at S in the current NU. Grumpig is probably the closest but if you get Pursuit trapped then it always takes away the reliability a lot and it's not unbeatable especially with physically offensive teams. Some might argue Hitmontop is S but I don't think it honestly is S rank even if it's used that much. It's only the fact you need a Spinner, Intimidate user, Absol and Zangoose counter etc. it's just a Pokemon all in one but not alone anything that insane imo.

Edited July 18, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[DrCraig]

I can't rank a barely top 10 used NU mon S. I just literally can't. I'd personally rank it at A+. 

I wouldn't rank literally anything at S in the current NU. Grumpig is probably the closest but if you get Pursuit trapped then it always takes away the reliability a lot and it's not unbeatable especially with physically offensive teams. Some might argue Hitmontop is S but I don't think it honestly is S rank even if it's used that much. It's only the fact you need a Spinner, Intimidate user, Absol check.. it's just a Pokemon all in one but not alone anything that insane imo.

Yea that's what I'm saying. I guess it isn't odd for there to be no S Rank. It isn't like the tier is "yo so balanced nothing is even that good." I just don't think anything fits that description at the moment.

Edited July 18, 2015 by DrCraig

[OrangeManiac]

Yea that's what I'm saying. I guess it isn't odd for there to be no S Rank. It isn't like the tier is "yo so balanced nothing is even that good." I just don't think anything fits that description at the moment.

Couldn't have said it any better.

[Arimanius]

don't think anything fits that description at the moment.

 

This is for me

 

EDIT: Oh plz now everyone goes ahead me

Edited July 18, 2015 by Arimanius

[Gunthug]

Looks good craig but I'd agree with orange that Scyther deserves A rank. He's got surpisingly decent bulk and great resistances to come in on highly prevalent grass/fighting attacks. Forces a lot of switches in a meta full of grass types, which means it can set up pretty easily too, with little support. I saw more than a couple scyther sweeps yesterday, with a variety of different sets (Swords dance, simply bulky, and CBer). Very impressed with the tier's balance, btw

[Kizhaz]

Scyther I would definately put somewhere in the A's, it is a scary mon when set up and tears apart teams, the rock weakness being the only thing holding it back.

Absol I could see around A - B+, 130 atk hits hard and shoving a cb on it can let it deal insane damage in an instant, manage to get an sd up and it is taking at least 1 life. The poor speed holding it back with qa as only priority.

Cradily for A - A+ I could see it as an S rank in the future. Only needs 1 curse to be effective, more than 1 and you need to force that thing out pronto. It still cant touch hitmontop and most carry toxic, so maybe leave it at A

Clamperl for S

[Arimanius]

Yeah I agree with scyther I would put it A as minimun, it can even survive a non stab super effective (no rock) hit because of his bulk and it is fast as hell and hits hard with cb or after one sd, also the reversal set is really good after u managed to do it

 

Absol I would give it a B+, even though its attack stat is really high for a NU it is not that fast and it is fragile, so for that I would give it that rank

[Robofiend]

Pinsir for S Rank:

 

It's bulky and has amazing offense. Yesterday in the unofficial I nearly 6-0'd 2 teams with it alone. It's a really useful Fighting/Ground resist in a Tier filled with Hitmontops, Superpower-Spamming Absols, and walls without enough Offensive power. It benefits even more from the Ubiquity of Hitmontop because of its ability, Hyper Cutter, and its access to SD, which lets it break the tier's only great physical wall easily. Last, great speed tier gives it an edge on most slower powerhouse sweepers (Absol, Golduck) and lets it set up with greater assurance that the switch in won't be able to force it out.

[gbwead]

Pinsir for S Rank:

 

It's bulky and has amazing offense. Yesterday in the unofficial I nearly 6-0'd 2 teams with it alone. It's a really useful Fighting/Ground resist in a Tier filled with Hitmontops, Superpower-Spamming Absols, and walls without enough Offensive power. It benefits even more from the Ubiquity of Hitmontop because of its ability, Hyper Cutter, and its access to SD, which lets it break the tier's only great physical wall easily. Last, great speed tier gives it an edge on most slower powerhouse sweepers (Absol, Golduck) and lets it set up with greater assurance that the switch in won't be able to force it out.

Tangela > Pinsir

 

I agree that pinsir is quite powerful, but I'm not convinced it deserves the S rank. There is still some bulky water and ground types that could switch in on pinsir (i will calc later to be sure).

[Robofiend]

Tangela > Pinsir

 

I agree that pinsir is quite powerful, but I'm not convinced it deserves the S rank. There is still some bulky water and ground types that could switch in on pinsir (i will calc later to be sure).

 

Tangela only works if you have HP Fire, otherwise Pinsir can just Sub and set up in your face.

[DrCraig]

Tangela only works if you have HP Fire, otherwise Pinsir can just Sub and set up in your face.

[gbwead]

Tangela only works if you have HP Fire, otherwise Pinsir can just Sub and set up in your face.

Yes, i meant tangela with an effective hidden power.

[hr]

On another note, Pinsir really can't do anything against solrock beside maybe thief (lol).

 

Edit: Furthermore, with pokemons like Aggron, Kabutops and Armaldo in the tier, Pinsir does not have that many switch ins options.

Edited July 22, 2015 by lamerb

[londark]

Tangela only works if you have HP Fire, otherwise Pinsir can just Sub and set up in your face.

 

Or Ancient Power :)

 

Does Pinsir get Superpower?

[DrCraig]

Yes, i meant tangela with an effective hidden power.

[hr]

On another note, Pinsir really can't do anything against solrock beside maybe thief (lol).

 

Or Ancient Power :)

 

Does Pinsir get Superpower?

 

You're all peasants.

Edited July 22, 2015 by DrCraig

[Gunthug]

Or Ancient Power :)

 

Does Pinsir get Superpower?

yeah

[OrangeManiac]

Pinsir is just another of those Pokemon that is completely viable but am I convinced to rank it S yet? I'm just not. A+, definitely. But S? It's easy to revenge kill meaning it cannot sweep teams that easily and Salac strategies are vulnerable to priority. I mean Pinsir is just all about base stats in a tier like NU and it hits like a truck but I'm just not entirely convinced personally it should be S either but please give inputs.