NU Viability Thread

[Liberalisme]

2 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Sharpedo is a damn monster. It basically forces you to play Poliwrath and even then you're like "ok don't outplay me I only have one switch in."

You could also use Bellosom as a Sharpedo counter. 

[KaynineXL]

Hitmontop isn't a bad switch, especially coupled with a bulky water resist.

[BlackJovi]

6 hours ago, Liberalisme said:

You could also use Bellosom as a Sharpedo counter. 

Not really, if def drops gg bellosom, and even without def drop. CB crunch is pretty close to 2hkoing.

252 Atk Choice Band Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 78-93 (42.8 - 51%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO

 

I'd say poliwrath is the only 100% counter 

[Liberalisme]

2 minutes ago, BlackJovi said:

Not really, if def drops gg bellosom, and even without def drop. CB crunch is pretty close to 2hkoing.

252 Atk Choice Band Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 78-93 (42.8 - 51%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO

 

I'd say poliwrath is the only 100% counter 

Yeah you are correct about that. Hitmontop works aswell. Although the chance that you get the drop is pretty low and most of the sets are life Orb. But yeah you are right. Poliwrath is the best counter for it.  Although I am not a big fan of Poliwrath. It's basically a free switch to Vic that can switch in for free on Wrath. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Liberalisme

[Erayne]

What about kadabra? Am I the only one struggling against it? I mean, it's true that it can't switch in easily, that it's weak to priority moves, and can be pursuit trapped (not many trappers tho atm), but it 2hkoes almost anything! 

[FinnTheMember]

Yeah choice band kadabra is a problem at NU and electabuzz is not good for NU too. Coz a lot of spdef walls at NU are water and flying type. mantine-noctowl-togetic-politoed etc.. And coz of that poke, nobody using them. You can support them with grass or grass-poison types. But still it has signal beam or psychic moves. Powerful- speedy. And if u have chance for use an electabuz, electrode is kinda.. btw yeah summary, electabuzz too op for NU. 

[Erayne]

Electabuzz can be walled tho and it's easier to switch in on it, while there's not many pokemon that can switch in on kadabra 

[KaynineXL]

Metang is an incredible Kadabra counter. Resists psychic by x4, and pursuit will KO it even if it stays in(as cb set). Other than that, Kecleon is great against the specs set, and sorta works for the orb set. It's still not used too much right now, but I see a lot of potential for it in this meta.

 

As for Electabuzz, I disagree about a lot of sp walls being flyging/water, they are pretty bad special walls. Electabuzz is above average NU comp for me, but nothing too special. It is walled by Raichu to a degree and Kecleon doesn't mind switching as long as it's not mixed. Grumpig is overall the better switch in, which has increased its usage by a lot since Absol left the tier.

Edited December 7, 2016 by KaynineXL

[Erayne]

Specs kadabra can be handled, the life ball version is the most dangerous imo, and even if metang usage raises people would just run HP fire

[KaynineXL]

8 minutes ago, Erayne said:

Specs kadabra can be handled, the life ball version is the most dangerous imo, and even if metang usage raises people would just run HP fire

Which in turn would make it worse against the standard stuff because it currently ties with things like Scyther/Elecabuzz, HP Fire means it can only get 30 speed so it loses fairly important speed ties especially considering some Scyther use pursuit.

Edited December 7, 2016 by KaynineXL

[Erayne]

That's true, but the issue I was talking about is that nothing can switch in on it, not that it's hard to revenge kill it

[LifeStyle]

Kadabra doesn't even need Hp Fire to handle Metang. Hp Ground works the same and you keep the 31 speed.

[KaynineXL]

8 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

Kadabra doesn't even need Hp Fire to handle Metang. Hp Ground works the same and you keep the 31 speed.

Could probably use that fairly well actually, it's not like Kadabra has 4 moves it needs to use, Trick/Sball are optional anyway.

 

Either way hp fire/hp ground isn't too effective unless you predict Metang coming in and hit it because life orb and even specs can't OHKO with any of those and pursuit will kill it regardless of staying in. I'd still like hp ground on mine though, maybe if you know someone uses Metang a lot it wouldn't be so hard to predict.

 

 

[fredrichnietze]

kadabra with hp ground is SE vs meta but also hits all the bulky electrics, poison, rock, and fire types. sure psychic hits most of them pretty hard too but hp fire is easy to play around and in nu hp ground is less easy imo.

[Mnemosyne]

I have a question about Mawile.

 

How viable is Mawile in the current tier?

[LifeStyle]

38 minutes ago, Mnemosyne said:

I have a question about Mawile.

 

How viable is Mawile in the current tier?

Has a niche for a defensive poke since being a pure steel type gives it 11 type resists, think it's mostly used to check Fearow and at some extent Scyther/Sharpedo and stuff like HP Groundless Venomoth, also being immune to Toxic is quite handy and it has Intimidate. You can try a SD set but I feel like it's just gonna get walled by a lot of the common NU walls so not worth imo.

Probably like a C+

Edited December 7, 2016 by LifeStyle

[Mnemosyne]

14 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

Has a niche for a defensive poke since being a pure steel type gives it 11 type resists, think it's mostly used to check Fearow and at some extent Scyther/Sharpedo and stuff like HP Groundless Venomoth, also being immune to Toxic is quite handy and it has Intimidate. You can try a SD set but I feel like it's just gonna get walled by a lot of the common NU walls so not worth imo.

Probably like a C+

Doesn't it stop Victreebell's (That aren't Sunny day weatherball) aswell? Having the normal and grass resist + poison immunity. Doesn't a resisted signal beam from specs venomoth still do a lot?

Edited December 7, 2016 by Mnemosyne

[LifeStyle]

2 minutes ago, Mnemosyne said:

Doesn't it stop Victreebell's (That aren't Sunny day weatherball) aswell? Having the normal and grass resist + poison immunity. Doesn't a resisted signal beam from specs venomoth still do a lot?

Yeah I've tested it as a Victree check, Ice Punch is always at least a guaranteed 3KO against it with 0 attack invest on Mawile (Unless you face a really rare Bold 252 HP/Def Victree). Thing is using Mawile as a Victree check can fuck you if you happen to face something like a Bulky Growth set which will beat you unless you get an Ice Punch freeze or something, or just face a Sunny Victree. But if you face a SD Victree then yeah Mawile beats it, even the mixed ones cuz Poison immunity.

As for Venomoth:

252 SpA Life Orb Venomoth Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mawile: 52-62 (33.1 - 39.4%) -- 23% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Venomoth Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mawile: 33-40 (21 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Venomoth Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mawile: 60-71 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Venomoth Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mawile: 39-46 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Ofc, if you choose to run Mawile as a Venomoth check, then Careful is the way to go

[Arimanius]

3 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

I have a question about Mawile.

 

How viable is Mawile in the current tier?

@NikhilR

[NikhilR]

Mawile is kind of dank with its typing and ability. I mostly use it as a pivot for normal attacks and psychic types. My preferred set is knock off / seismic / superfang / toxic. Knock Off is probably one of the most underrated moves and has a 100% benefit most of the time (except when your opponent runs something like Muk / Venomoth). Super Fang is its hardest hitting move and forces its switch ins to heal up the next turn, which gives you a free turn to bring in something to maintain that momentum. Seismic is kind of necessary for basic offense and I put toxic in, cuz why not! You can replace one of those moves with painsplit if you want Mawile to have more longevity. There are other sets that haven't been explored enough yet, so people should try to experiment with it. With regards to the SD Set, I think it can act as a very, very good lure for Wrath / Solrock which tend to wall quite a bit of the meta.

 

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 136-162 (69 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solrock: 158-186 (89.2 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

 

I think in our current meta Mawile looks really good when paired with a psychic type since it basically switches into all Metang's attacks very safely, so I'd say it forms a really good core with that. Just gotta find a set that is capable of punishing your opponent.

Edited December 8, 2016 by NikhilR

[Liberalisme]

11 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

Mawile is kind of dank with its typing and ability. I mostly use it as a pivot for normal attacks and psychic types. My preferred set is knock off / seismic / superfang / toxic. Knock Off is probably one of the most underrated moves and has a 100% benefit most of the time (except when your opponent runs something like Muk / Venomoth). Super Fang is its hardest hitting move and forces its switch ins to heal up the next turn, which gives you a free turn to bring in something to maintain that momentum. Seismic is kind of necessary for basic offense and I put toxic in, cuz why not! You can replace one of those moves with painsplit if you want Mawile to have more longevity. There are other sets that haven't been explored enough yet, so people should try to experiment with it. With regards to the SD Set, I think it can act as a very, very good lure for Wrath / Solrock which tend to wall quite a bit of the meta.

 

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 136-162 (69 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solrock: 158-186 (89.2 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

 

I think in our current meta Mawile looks really good when paired with a psychic type since it basically switches into all Metang's attacks very safely, so I'd say it forms a really good core with that. Just gotta find a set that is capable of punishing your opponent.

Many thanks for this information,  you really helped me with it. Mawile looks like a pretty decent pokemon in the current tier. :) 

[FinnTheMember]

19 hours ago, KaynineXL said:

Electabuzz is above average NU comp

Uhm maybe. Its too op for me, because 

#1 Nobody plays with Mantine, Noctowl, Politoed, Dewgong, Ledian, Togetic, Dustox coz of that poke.

#2 Nobody chooses Electrode coz of that poke. 

#3 Electabuzz has hidden-signal beam-psychic-cross chop options for his counter's.

#4 He has 105 base speed and when i look to NU pokes with same speed; Scyther has stab aerial ace (60 power) and rapidash has not physical fire move. 

 

But i can agree about, Electabuzz has no use at UU coz of Manectric at there. Thats right.

Well okay Electabuzz must stay at NU. Coz its really bad to see some pokes that nobody plays. As Hariyama..

[xStarr]

 

I haven't played with this much but like Nik said, Mawile seems good with psychic types and to me Claydol + Mawile seems pretty good. (Like two matches with dis)

Edited December 8, 2016 by xStarr
Overall Mawile is awesome

[KaynineXL]

10 hours ago, FinnTheMember said:

Uhm maybe. Its too op for me, because 

#1 Nobody plays with Mantine, Noctowl, Politoed, Dewgong, Ledian, Togetic, Dustox coz of that poke.

#2 Nobody chooses Electrode coz of that poke. 

#3 Electabuzz has hidden-signal beam-psychic-cross chop options for his counter's.

#4 He has 105 base speed and when i look to NU pokes with same speed; Scyther has stab aerial ace (60 power) and rapidash has not physical fire move. 

 

But i can agree about, Electabuzz has no use at UU coz of Manectric at there. Thats right.

Well okay Electabuzz must stay at NU. Coz its really bad to see some pokes that nobody plays. As Hariyama..

1. No, people don't use those because they're bad, not because of Electabuzz. Mantine is alright as bold because its typing is good for a few things, Poliwrath being one of them but the others like Politoad(It's just not great), Dewgong(Walrein is better), Ledian(lol), Togetic(bad), Dustox(bad).

 

2. I laugh at that because Electrode is still great and a lot of people use it over Electabuzz. Electrode is faster than the whole tier(of which is used) even while being modest, you can stick the rest in HP and reap extra benefits with leftovers and adding toxic(since you don't get psychic anyway) gives you better sub stall. It's got roughly the same Sp atk as Electabuzz while modest but the fact it beats 105 speed mons is pretty big. If you want more raw power with orb and coverage, you pick Electabuzz. If you want a more speedy, bulky toxic stall, you pick Electrode.

 

3. So does Victreebel, so does Nidoking, so does Stantler.. You get my point.

 

4. Scyther has access to Swords Dance which makes up for his not so great attacking moves. Rapidash is w/e.

 

Electabuzz also gets trapped so easily by Diglett.

[AQA]

pls ban bellossom  cause  it stops kabutops :(

 

edit:   and tangela too why it is NU again stop changing the tiers every week lol

Edited April 27, 2017 by AQA