NU Viability Thread

[OrangeManiac]

 

By DrCraig

 

 

Welcome to the NU Viability Thread. If you do not know what a viability thread entails read further. A viability thread has as purpose to put Pokémon into 'ranks', by lack of a better term. In the UU viability rankings we base our rankings on how viable certain Pokémon in NU are. Discussion is encouraged and remember that you are always entitled to your opinion but forget not to be respectful to other community members.

 

There won't be a split between offensive/defensive/support Pokémon as this is a general viability thread. Meaning offensive and defensive Pokémon can fit into the same rank without utilizing the same role.

 

Lastly, this thread also functions as a discussion about the NU metagame. So by all means do not hold back on discussing your thought; how you think can go better, or how you think everything is already going good. Bringing underrated Pokémon up for discussion is also part of a viability thread discussion. When proposing a ranking change please post reasoning behind your argument to make sure we avoid the thread being littered.

 

 

 

Current Hot Topics

• a lot of things

 

Resources for Discussion

• PokeMMO Tiers and Usage statistics (everything that's not listed in any tier is obviously NU)
• Damage Calculator *Subject to mechanic differences
• Smogon Pokedex *Subject to mechanic differences
• Synergy Pokedex
• PokeMMO Speed Tiers Lv50
• Tiering Etiquette Guide

 

Other Viability Threads:

• OU Viability
• Doubles Viability
• UU Viablity

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PokeMMO NU Viability Ranking

(Pokemon listed in alphabetical order)

 

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the NU metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon define the metagame.

 

 

 

S Rank:

 

Victreebel

 

 

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the NU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits. These Pokemon exert a strong presence in the metagame.

 

 

A+ Rank:

 

Absol

Electabuzz

Granbull

Pinsir

Raichu

 

 

 

A Rank:

 

Bellossom

Electrode

Fearow

Flareon

Glalie

Gligar

Golduck

Grumpig

Kecleon

Kingler

Misdreavus

Muk

Poliwrath

Scyther

Sharpedo

Walrein

Xatu

 

 

 

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the NU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. These Pokemon exert an above average presence in the metagame.

 

 

 

B+ Rank:

 

Claydol

Girafarig

Gorebyss

Kadabra

Mr. Mime

Piloswine

Solrock

Tangela

Tropius

 

 

B Rank:

 

Camerupt

Diglett

Jumpluff

Lickitung

Qwilfish

Rapidash

Roselia

Seviper

Stantler

Torkoal

Whiscash

 

 

 

 

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the NU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame.

 

 

C Rank:

 

Cacturne

Mantine

Octillery

 

 

 

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the NU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

 

 

D Rank:

 

Metang

Shedinja

 

 

Note: Please point out any errors I have not tended to such as spelling errors and what not.

Edited November 4, 2016 by OrangeManiac

[DrCraig]

I'll whip up a banner to fit the common theme-ish.

I love you Orange.

[Kiliminati]

inb4 there's an abnormal amount of S rank Pokemon right off the bat

[OrangeManiac]

inb4 there's an abnormal amount of S rank Pokemon right off the bat

Would be pretty damn unbelievably rare from a usage based tiering to not rise any monsters.

[DrCraig]

 

 

Please make the text in the parenthesis lower in font before I tear my hair out.

[DoubleJ]

So... I guess I'll make a suggestion:

 

Pikachu for S-Rank

- The little mouse has a wonderful move pool and access to some of the filthiest priority moves in the game (Extremespeed and Fake-Out). It's only real downfalls are its lackluster defenses and the fact that running anything but Light Ball is suicide. Pikachu hits like a brick and has the amazing coverage to revenge kill damn near everything in the game. Give it HP Fire and suddenly those Grass-types we rely on to stop it start to think twice before switching in. 

[ThinkNice]

So... I guess I'll make a suggestion:

 

Pikachu for S-Rank

- The little mouse has a wonderful move pool and access to some of the filthiest priority moves in the game (Extremespeed and Fake-Out). It's only real downfalls are its lackluster defenses and the fact that running anything but Light Ball is suicide. Pikachu hits like a brick and has the amazing coverage to revenge kill damn near everything in the game. Give it HP Fire and suddenly those Grass-types we rely on to stop it start to think twice before switching in. 

I might seem crazy for saying this but I don't think Pikachu deserves the S rank. Pikachu might seem very diverse but in truth it will only be running one set because that is the only set that maximizes Pikachu's potential. All other sets are inferior to what his main set does. This set it: Xspeed, Surf, Thunderbolt, HP Ice - Naive.

 

Why Naive? Because of all the priority in the tier and it's not really going to live any hard special hit anyway. But yoiu could say, oh but what if it runs HP Grass?! Well, no. Think about the opportunity cost of running HP Grass. This tier is filled with Bulky Grass pokémon, by running HP Grass you are making sure you're getting walled by every single one of them.

 

'B-but Think, Signal Beam!', yeah you 'could' run Signal Beam with HP Grass, but this means you are sacking either Extremespeed (which is out of the question) or you are sacking Surf. Sacking Surf means you lost your most reliable way of damaging Ampharos, not only that but the popular Nidoking is going to completely shit on Pikachu's live, which isn't worth the opportunity cost again. Pikachu isn't that dynamic and it only has one set that works very well in this tier.

 

Not only that but Pikachu has a very hard time to break through defensive teams unlike the quick-banned Jynx and things like Kabutops and Zangoose. If you ask why, it's because Pikachu has no boosting moves that will make it a threat. Light Ball comes with all sorts of problems that, for example, Zangoose doesn't have. For starters it means you aren't running Lum or Salac. It also means that players won't need to guess AT ALL what your item is, which is very handy for Pokémon that want to break through walls.

 

On the other hand Pikachu has a field day against offensive teams if it gets a switch in. Because something is going to get fucking hurt. But again against offensive teams Pikachu has a very hard time switching in and hard priority makes it less effective as well.

 

It may seem like I'm stating Pikachu is bad, but it's not bad at all. It's one of the best Pokémon in the tier. I'm just laying out its flaws and why I believe it's not an S rank because of these flaws and lack of diversity. I would nominate Pikachu to A+

[Kizhaz]

I might seem crazy for saying this but I don't think Pikachu deserves the S rank. Pikachu might seem very diverse but in truth it will only be running one set because that is the only set that maximizes Pikachu's potential. All other sets are inferior to what his main set does. This set it: Xspeed, Surf, Thunderbolt, HP Ice - Naive.

 

Why Naive? Because of all the priority in the tier and it's not really going to live any hard special hit anyway. But yoiu could say, oh but what if it runs HP Grass?! Well, no. Think about the opportunity cost of running HP Grass. This tier is filled with Bulky Grass pokémon, by running HP Grass you are making sure you're getting walled by every single one of them.

 

'B-but Think, Signal Beam!', yeah you 'could' run Signal Beam with HP Grass, but this means you are sacking either Extremespeed (which is out of the question) or you are sacking Surf. Sacking Surf means you lost your most reliable way of damaging Ampharos, not only that but the popular Nidoking is going to completely shit on Pikachu's live, which isn't worth the opportunity cost again. Pikachu isn't that dynamic and it only has one set that works very well in this tier.

 

Not only that but Pikachu has a very hard time to break through defensive teams unlike the quick-banned Jynx and things like Kabutops and Zangoose. If you ask why, it's because Pikachu has no boosting moves that will make it a threat. Light Ball comes with all sorts of problems that, for example, Zangoose doesn't have. For starters it means you aren't running Lum or Salac. It also means that players won't need to guess AT ALL what your item is, which is very handy for Pokémon that want to break through walls.

 

On the other hand Pikachu has a field day against offensive teams if it gets a switch in. Because something is going to get fucking hurt. But again against offensive teams Pikachu has a very hard time switching in and hard priority makes it less effective as well.

 

It may seem like I'm stating Pikachu is bad, but it's not bad at all. It's one of the best Pokémon in the tier. I'm just laying out its flaws and why I believe it's not an S rank because of these flaws and lack of diversity. I would nominate Pikachu to A+

 

I agree that set is the best set, however almost all switch ins to that set are torn apart by pikas physical spread. This alone imo makes pika an unpredictable threat capable of taking down a pokemon before you even know what it's running

[DoubleJ]

I agree it doesnt have that great of "come in and sweep" appeal, but it certainly can shrek an unprepated team or an offensive team. And what about sub + 3 attacks? Pika is certainly going to force some switches letting it sub up and smack something in the face with a powerful and likely se hit.

A+ is fair though considering its noted flaws

[OrangeManiac]

I really cant decide if I think Pikachu is S rank or rather A+ but Pikachu definitely has some major flaws like ThinkNice said. While again its damage output and movepool is like no one else has. Glad to see this thread get rolling, obviously as the tier is new some tournaments and discussion have to be done before its wise to put any ranks in my opinion but everyone feel free to write their opinions already based on their observations and theorymon.


Edit

I'd also like to start the discussion of one of the most "important" Pokemon in the current NU tier, Hitmontop. As a Pokemon itself it is really good but it works as a check to pretty much any physical sweeper with Intimidate, especially helps against Zangoose and Sharpedo. Its main set in my opinion is Bulk Up as it needs to stay alive so I wouldn't run it Choice Banded but it can cause some damage from there too. A Bulk Up's set general damage is quite small and I figure most of the time it is used to calm down Zangoose's and Sharpedo's power and less used to actually set up. Obviously, Hitmontop does not need to run this set as well it can run Toxic, Rapid Spin which is excellent Spiker Glalie counter, even Rest for maximum longetivity to protect you from physical sweeping. Hitmontop fills a defensive role like no other Pokemon in NU tier with Intimidate, it can counter arguebly the best spiker in the tier and it can do a lot of good things offensively. However, nothing makes Hitmontop "overpowering" more than being a really valuable teammate. A+rank, in my opinion.

Edited June 18, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[fredrichnietze]

cradalily. it's fucking ridiculous in nu. 

first off base stats of

86/81/97/81/107/43

making a bit ridiculous defensively.

type wise it is rock/grass meaning it's only weakness's are fight, bug, steel, and ice. now i bet your thinking "fred those are common" but keep in mind 86/97/107 defs which are half a dozen stat points short of celebi and jirachi.

the add it's ability which means it can not be forced to move (think soundproof but better) meaning the only way to reset it's boost is haze.

it's boost/set up moves consist of 

• ingrain
• amnesia
• sword dance darkshade please implement future tm's
• barrier
• curse

and ofc for healing

• synthesis
• recover
• pain split
• rest

im not going to even touch it's attacks because i dont need to.

 

 

so yea s class pls

Edited July 4, 2015 by fredrichnietze

[ThinkNice]

Cradily is extremely good on paper but on the PTS it wass rather underwhelming and not as incredibly good as I thought it would be. Wpuld call it A rank till we have more info.

[Kizhaz]

I used a Cradily on PTS and it was quite monsterous. Not many pokemon can deal more damage than recover heals, but definately needs cleric support. I wouldnt suggest ingrain since it prevents switching

[YagamiNoir]

I wouldn't exactly call Cradily S. Of course, this is all dependent on what kind of Cradily you're facing, as I can't see a 100% counter either. 

 

Absol can still 2HKO it after one Curse with a Choice Band, for instance, unless it runs Counter or Barrier than can potentially screw Absol up. Even then, Taunt or Substitute can completely set up on Cradily lacking an attack. Similarly SubPunch Pokemon especially those that run STAB such as Primeape/Poliwrath can also prove to be problematic for it, although you could say these sets aren't that common. Given how common it is for Cradily to run Recover, Toxic usually stops it from doing too much and Rest comes with the whole Sleep drawback, although it isn't to say it's not hard to stop as well. Generally, you also have 4MSS on this thing and your dedicated sets do very different things. Let it go out of hand and it can screw you up, but it's not something that gets unstoppable after one Curse. 

 

As for Hitmontop, stuff like Zangoose and Sharpedo in the tier inevitably make it very significant as a pivot with this power creep, alongside being a good Glalie counter, but I wouldn't call it flawless. Bulk Up isn't an effective way to defend against the physical attackers either, because they could just set up alongside you when you're forced to Rest or when they predict it. At the same time, it's mix of offensive and defensive roles seem appealing, but it also comes with a case of 4MSS/limited movepool. Maybe that doesn't matter because its enough to do work, I guess. Considering a defensive set of RSpin/Toxic/Rest/Fighting move, you're complete fodder for Poison types like Nidoking, making your check work not as effective as you'd like unless you run EQ. Hitmontop is thusly also heavily reliant on Wish/cleric support unless it runs Rest itself, since it can get worn down by Choice Band Attacks still; this also relates to the fact that you sometimes have to switch into Spikes damage to get rid of them which further affects its longevity throughout matches.  

 

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 54-64 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- 59.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Zangoose Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 60-72 (38.2 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Zangoose Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 70-84 (44.5 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

It's good enough, but not as good as a sustainable wall that fits the high ranks should be, or maybe that's just me. Put it in A at the moment, at the very least. 

 

[spoiler] Don't forget that my bby checks/counters this thing hard too, unless Choice Band Thief is concerned, plus I spinblock. [/spoiler]

[Viking]

Ok, i would like to speak about Kadabra; HP 40 ATT 35 DEF 30 SPATT 120 SPDEF 70 SPEED 105

it has an acces to an incredible dual moves signal beam / psychic and hurts just everything.

 

Aggron can wall kadabra but trapinch / diglet RK so easily. 

 

sub + disable can give the opportunity of a free sweep or a simple CM set.

 

A+ RANK recommanded

 

 

Elektabuzz : just an amazing speed, it just can't be outspeeded without QA / Machpunch, and 1/3 chance to active static and fucks your sweeper.

Stab + psychic + HP (grass) and a mixed set are hard to wall.

A rank

 

Actually, Wiglytuff / Aggron / Muk can wall pretty well those SPattackers but the hell what is diglett (ASS) is doing in NU? cause it open after RKill an easy sweep by those sp attackers.

Diglett UU rank for save the NU from the darkness. ( yeah the UU can't be saved )

 

I'll finish with the Duck, CM is just OP for the tier, invest in HP / DEF are giving to it a good bulk for set up easily. Surf / Psychic / HP grass / Ice beam offer an amazing coverage.

A+ Rank

[OrangeManiac]

I'm sorry but Kadabra most definitely is NOT A rank. It is fastest and hits the hardest of all Psychic types in the tier but overall I think it is outclassed by Grumpig and even Mr. Mime. Grumpig is a really good tank which gets usage by default, its CM sweeps can be unstoppable against an unprepared team and it is the best phazer in the tier with WW imo. Mime is slower and doesn't exactly hit as hard but the bulk and movepool imo make it outclass Kadabra too. Not to mention everyone are packing the tier with all the priority they can get and that's not a good thing for Kadabra. I would say it's B by absolute best, being imo outclassed by other Psychic types might make it even C. (disregard this, but I think it's B imo)

Sub + Disable Kadabra can give sweeps? Who even runs monoattacker with any Pokemon..

Electabuzz is nice being one of the fastest Pokes but it can be checked easily by a lot of stuff. Only really good against offensive teams late game. B+ imo.

Golduck is good, though. The CM is sweet but mainly I like it with the ability Cloud Nine which can troll SunnyBeam Bello/Victreebel so hard. In the highly offensive tier we're now it sucks to lose in speed to Pika, Zangoose and Sharpedo but I still say it's A/B+ material.


Also, sorry but I need to point out "being hard to wall" is not by default a reason for high rank. Just because those mentioned Pokemon is harder to wall than Grumpig doesn't make Pig less viable if it can switch in all day everyday and not let its teammate faint before having a shot to shine with offensive power.

Edited June 19, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[Viking]

I'm sorry but Kadabra most definitely is NOT A rank. It is fastest and hits the hardest of all Psychic types in the tier but overall I think it is outclassed by Grumpig and even Mr. Mime. Grumpig is a really good tank which gets usage by default, its CM sweeps can be unstoppable against an unprepared team and it is the best phazer in the tier with WW imo. Mime is slower and doesn't exactly hit as hard but the bulk and movepool imo make it outclass Kadabra too. Not to mention everyone are packing the tier with all the priority they can get and that's not a good thing for Kadabra. I would say it's B by absolute best, being imo outclassed by other Psychic types might make it even C.

Sub + Disable Kadabra can give sweeps? Who even runs monoattacker with any Pokemon..

Electabuzz is nice being one of the fastest Pokes but it can be checked easily by a lot of stuff. Only really good against offensive teams late game. B+ imo.

Golduck is good, though. The CM is sweet but mainly I like it with the ability Cloud Nine which can troll SunnyBeam Bello/Victreebel so hard. In the highly offensive tier we're now it sucks to lose in speed to Pika, Zangoose and Sharpedo but I still say it's A/B+ material.


Also, sorry but I need to point out "being hard to wall" is not by default a reason for high rank. Just because those mentioned Pokemon is harder to wall than Grumpig doesn't make Pig less viable if it can switch in all day everyday and not let its teammate faint before having a shot to shine with offensive power.

+1 252 SpA Kadabra Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Grumpig: 82-98 (43.8 - 52.4%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Kadabra Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Grumpig: 90-106 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO

 

0 SpA Grumpig Signal Beam vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Kadabra: 46-56 (39.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

+1 252 SpA Kadabra Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mr. Mime: 78-94 (53 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

+1 252 SpA Kadabra Psychic vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Wigglytuff: 129-153 (60 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

 

 

252 Atk Choice Band Zangoose Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 147-174 (78.6 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Golduck Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zangoose: 139-165 (93.9 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

 

252 Atk Choice Band Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 118-141 (63.1 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Golduck Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sharpedo: 166-196 (114.4 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 138-164 (73.7 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Golduck Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pikachu: 160-189 (145.4 - 171.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

Those both sweepers are walled by cradily / aggron / ampharos.

 

+1 252 Atk Diglett Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 174-206 (88.3 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

+1 252 Atk Diglett Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 206-244 (106.7 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Diglett Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aggron: 192-228 (108.4 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

Diglett fucks them

[OrangeManiac]

When I'm saying Grumpig and Mime outclasses Kadabra I'm saying it's a generally better to use them in your team instead of Kadabra, based on my observations. I wasn't saying they beat Kadabra 1v1. (Or least I think that is what you're trying to prove with your calcs)

I think fast Golduck is overall more viable than 252 HP but not saying bulky Duck is unviable either.

And if a Pokemon needs Diglett support to be viable then it ranks lower as it needs support to be effective.

[OldKeith]

Viking's points are good though, Sorry orange but Mime is very much inferior to Kadabra simply because of the low speed and the bulk is not that much better either. Kadabra with Psychic/CM/Signal beam is really scary. With the exception of a handful of pokemon, not many things beat Kadabra. Same can be said about Electabuzz, it has insane speed and coverage (Tbolt+Hp Grass+Psychic+Signal Beam) to hit about any special wall, except for normal types. These things should be looked at more carefully imo.

[Viking]

 

When I'm saying Grumpig and Mime outclasses Kadabra I'm saying it's a generally better to use them in your team instead of Kadabra, based on my observations. I wasn't saying they beat Kadabra 1v1. (Or least I think that is what you're trying to prove with your calcs)

I think fast Golduck is overall more viable than 252 HP but not saying bulky Duck is unviable either.

And if a Pokemon needs Diglett support to be viable then it ranks lower as it needs support to be effective.

 

oww i didn't understand that ^^

 

it's you opinion for golduck, is just saw a lot of bulkies ones. but in NU the walls are pretty slow so imo speed isn't really necessary.

 

i did those calcs with diglett for show it's a serious wall breaker and a combo Spattacker + diglett is really dangerous. i think diglett is just uncmpetitive as wynaunt / dugtrio.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Viking

[OrangeManiac]

Correction: Nothing really switches on for Kadabra and defeat it but in a general 1v1 encounter Kadabra rarely OHKOs Pokemon without weakness to Psychic and the pitiful physical defense makes it get OHKOd pretty much any physical attacker with SE attack or not. Also setting CMs by my experience with Kadabra is really risky and oftentimes not worth the risk. Kadabra is a top tier late game sweeper, yes but this suggests its teammates have weaken the team already. It cannot sweep alone Pokes from full HPs such as something like Zangoose.

Alright, I suppose I ranked Kadabra a bit too low but my experience of it hasn't been that overwhelming.




So, the beast: Zangoose.


I feel like this just should be S rank. It can make sweeps happen from absolutely nothing with the Swords Dance set, waiting the opportunity to not get OHKOd while seting up and due to only one weakness it's relatively easy. After that sweeping everything remaining with Return, Iron Tail, Quick Attack or Fighting move. Not to mention Choice Band set hurts Hitmontop a lot which could seem like a somewhat answer to SD set and it's notable Hitmontop needs investments to OHKO a Zangoose from full HP with Mach. There were some calcs in preliminary thread but Cradily, Armaldo and Golem need to be highly physically defensive to take a Swords Danced Iron Tail and after Zangoose KOs one of these it's often times Return sweeping yourself to the victory and Quick Attacking anything that is faster (unless opponent has a priority Rapidash, Electabuzz or Scyther). Fake Out Persian for example would end this sweep but Persian's viability due to awful movepool in my opinion is highly questionable. Choice Band Return does so much damage it's scary so even as a late game CB sweeper it's top tier. I feel like the posivite traits of Zangoose are just so highly overshadowing it's negatives, mainly which is that it cannot switch in to really anything. Zangoose's offensive movepool is satisfactory at the least and the 115 base Attack combined with Stab Return and the Rock and Steel coverage is just something that to me defines the metagame.

Looking forward to hear comments about this one.




Guise pls post something so I dont have to triple edit posts..


Alright, Glalie. The best Spiker in the tier by far with multiple other tricks. Spiker Glalie is usually the basis of a defensive/bulky offensive team trying to weaken the opponent by every switch in. Also has access to Taunt to prevent Spikes for own side. Also offensively works nicely so can't assume always it's a spiker and try to make hero plays. Really diverse, can perform multiple roles but the best as a supporter. A/A+ depending how viable Spikes end up being in the current metagame, which first seems highly offensive.

Edited June 20, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[Arimanius]

So can we start?

I suggest pinsir for S and Zangoose for A+, I still don't see Zangoose as a S yet maybe because many people don't use it yet but I know it can be very effective mostly late game. Pinsir in the other hand has bulk like a really good bulk and its flail set and sword dance set is scary and with hyper cutter he can't be intimidated by hitmontop.
Also I would say Grumpig and Tangela A and maybe Ampharos A+ because of the power it has and bulkiness, I think Tangela is ok with A since is really fragile in its special side and its movepool is not that impresive.

Just throwing stuff out so we can start ranking here

Edited July 3, 2015 by Arimanius

[DrCraig]

Orange you should whip up a rough draft on this thing

[OrangeManiac]

Well, I mean.. I don't want to make this look completely arbitrary so I wish to see some discussion before just setting up these. When "enough" discussion of a certain Pokemon has been made I suppose I can put some ranks here.

[gbwead]

I am actually surprised no one talks about lapras. I really see him as one of the most dangerous pokemon in the tier, especially because he needs to be scouted carefully.

 

Edit: What are the safe switch options for lapras? What do you guys think?

Edited July 12, 2015 by lamerb