Senile Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Senile, you realize you calced for HitmonCHAN right? So c'mon, lets not look dumb here. 252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hitmontop: 61-73 (38.8 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hitmontop: 67-81 (42.6 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery You fell for my trap card, kek. #baited The same has been said when it was UU Senile amd there was more that could beat it there. But sleep was better back then, now Sleep Powder is a hollow shell of the move it used to be; Jumpluff running around sleeping shit isn't nearly as big of a deal now as it used to be. Also, it probably shouldn't have been banned back then either, hue; but either way, that was ages ago and isn't really relevant now, much less to NU, so hue. BurntZebra and DoubleJ 2 Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 lets talk about walls. before you can say "hey this sweeper is too op" you need to have a good understanding of what their is wall wise to deal with said sweeper. -special walls bulky waters mantine pros best spdef in nu(pls dont make me actually count), can phsy wall too, good movepool cons 4x electric weakness clampearl pros can run items to double spa att OR spa def, great defensive typing, decent moveset cons cant run leftovers or any other item, no insta heal ampharos pros very high spa att, great movepool on both phsy/spec side, can run agility to outspeed entire tier cons weak to the common EQ, no insta heal delcatty pros can cleric, can use many boosting moves, great special wall typing cons poor base stats, set up bait for several thinggs grumpig pros useful ability/defensive typing, good moveset, can cm sweep, can WW cons weak to several common moves, set up bait for several things wigglytuff pros perfect defensive typing for spec wall, can insta heal, can cleric, great movepool cons set up bait for several things togetic pros great moveset, insta heal, immune to EQ cons weak to electric/ice, not the best base stats swalot pros can run phsy or spec attacker, can run phsy or spec wall, can curse, great movepool cons weak to the common EQ, set up bait for some things, inferior to muk noctowl pros great defensive typing for spec wall, can WW, decent movepool cons not the best base stats, ability helps and hurts noctowl, weak to some common moves muk pros great offensive pressure, great moveset, can go spec of phsy attacker cons weak to the common EQ, not the best def, no good phsy stab move mr mime pros great spec def, can set up for days, great base stats, great movepool cons cm wars, no insta heal, pp stall wars, set up bait for some things kecleon pros great ability, great spec def, decent movepool, can insta heal cons knowledgeable opponent can abuse your ability, set up bait for some things dustox pros great movepool, can WW cons bad defensive typing, outclassed by several things -physical walls bulky waters lapras pros water absorb, great bulk, great spec moveset, decent phsy moveset, can perish trap, can haze cons bad defensive typing politoed pros water absorb, best phsy bulk of all the waters cept lapras, great defensive typing, good spec moveset, can perish, can haze cons not much mantine pros great defensive typing, waterabsorb, decent spec moveset, can haze, can spec wall too, can haze cons 4x electric weakness corsala pros resist several common types, gets recover, gets lots of boosting moves, great moveset cons worse base stats of the bulky waters, weak to several common types, 4x grass weakness walrein pros amazing moveset, great base stats, gloriouswalrus cons bad defensive typing, somewhat outclassed by lapras unless you are running one of the moves lapras cant. dewgong completely outclassed by walrein clampearl pros can run items to double spa att OR spa def, great defensive typing, decent moveset cons cant run leftovers or any other item, no insta heal relicanth great offensive movepool cons several common weakness's, no good healing aggron pros best defense stat in tier, great offense, great movepool cons no insta heal, slow, 4x weak to ground/fight and wea tot he common water armaldo pros can set up, great defensive typing, great movepool cons no insta heal, slow, weak to the common surf bellossom pros great movepool, great base stats, insta heal cons weak to several common moves tangela pros great movepool, great defense of a poke with insta heal cons several common weakness's, bad sp def chimeco pros can quickly become very dangerous with cm, insta heal, great movepool, immune to EQ cons pursuit trapping cradalily pros great defensive typing, insta heal, great movepool, near immpossible to guess moveset cons weak to fight, set up bait for some things galie pros can spike can boom, great movepool cons set up bait for some things, predictable, bad defensive typing hitmontop pros best nu intimidator, can bulk up, has priority, can pursuit trap cons no insta heal, not the best offensive coverage, weak to the common flying jumpluff pros fast, great movepool, fast, can sleep, fast, insta heal, encore, did i mention fast? cons 4x weak to ice, sleep got nerfed, sleep clause lunatone pros can quickly become offensive threat with cm, insta heal, great typing cons cm wars mawile pros intimidate, can quickly become offensive with sd, decent movepool cons weak to the common eq and fight, not the best base stats. nidoqueen pros godly movepool with coverage on everything, insta heal, immune to twave and toxic cons weak to several common moves parasect pros it's parasect cons none it's parasect sableye pros insta heal, great typing, can cm, great movepool cons relatively low base stats, predictable shedninja pros immune to most typings, with SD cna quickly become very dangerous cons sandstorm, hail, spikees, toxic, wow, every hit that does dmg 1hko solrock pros great defensive typing, great moveset, phsyical moveset pretty good cons several common weakness's torkoal pros spinner, can boom, great phsy/spec movepoo cons healing? weak to a few common moves tropius? peliper? wynaut? is shuckle a mistake? i hope this helps when trying to figure out counters for scary things RysPicz and timwaps 2 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Pikachu so stronk, but mach punch chases it away every time. The unfortunate thing is that there doesn't look like there are any wish passers to support hitmontop. Guess a ban should be considered honestly. Edit: that was dirty, you should know im vulnerable posting from my phone while bored at work Edited June 1, 2015 by DoubleJ Link to comment
NikhilR Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Pikachu so stronk, but mach punch chases it away every time. The unfortunate thing is that there doesn't look like there are any wish passers to support hitmontop. Guess a ban should be considered honestly. Edit: that was dirty, you should know im vulnerable posting from my phone while bored at work Togetic and Wigglytuff are "alright" wish passes I guess. Inb4 someone makes wish hypno. Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Pikachu so stronk, but mach punch chases it away every time. The unfortunate thing is that there doesn't look like there are any wish passers to support hitmontop. Guess a ban should be considered honestly. togetic, wigglytuff, girafaraig, jynx, delcatty, plusel, minium, chimeco, lickitung, absol, and for shits and giggles pikachu if you get bored Link to comment
Gunthug Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Personally, I think pikachu deserves an instant ban. Not only because of it's raw power on paper, but also because to actually test it might be problematic, considering how unbeleivably expensive a full pikachu set costs. I know battle frontier should help with BP a little bit, but we're still talking about tens of thousands of BP to drop on a surf/extremespeed pika, not to mention the possibility of other moves like leaf storm and fake out. Even though its really OP, we may not see it on display that much in the first few weeks of NU (though this could just be speculation) Blue 1 Link to comment
Senile Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Personally, I think pikachu deserves an instant ban. Not only because of it's raw power on paper, but also because to actually test it might be problematic, considering how unbeleivably expensive a full pikachu set costs. I know battle frontier should help with BP a little bit, but we're still talking about tens of thousands of BP to drop on a surf/extremespeed pika, not to mention the possibility of other moves like leaf storm and fake out. Even though its really OP, we may not see it on display that much in the first few weeks of NU (though this could just be speculation) I mean, we're testing stuff out on the PTS server m8, come on and join, kek. Link to comment
Gunthug Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I mean, we're testing stuff out on the PTS server m8, come on and join, kek. oh fuark forgot about the PTS lel. Ok nvm, a few test server tourneys and I think it'll be clear Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think people are forgetting how Pikachu can not switch in at all. How it gets shit on by Mach Punches and how his Espeed can't knock out most of the Pokémon faster than it. Even if it switches in Ampharos can set a Light Screen up, calm Bello can 2hko, modest can OHKO, Whiscash doesn't fear it that much (if you run HP Grass you are literally walled by every grass) and then you have TF Grumpig. These are probably Pokémon that naturally will have a lot of usage. And there are even more checks to this thing like Top, Buzz, Cradily, Electrode, Muk, Slash, Shedinja, Swalot etc OrangeManiac and Bale11 2 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think people are forgetting how Pikachu can not switch in at all. How it gets shit on by Mach Punches and how his Espeed can't knock out most of the Pokémon faster than it. Even if it switches in Ampharos can set a Light Screen up, calm Bello can 2hko, modest can OHKO, Whiscash doesn't fear it that much (if you run HP Grass you are literally walled by every grass) and then you have TF Grumpig. These are probably Pokémon that naturally will have a lot of usage. And there are even more checks to this thing like Top, Buzz, Cradily, Electrode, Muk, Slash, Shedinja, Swalot etc Trueeeee Link to comment
Haazuu Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I was very excited by the return of nu but This tier isnt NU, this is like UU tier, so many pokes of this list are so OP for NU but is a shit in UU, i think it would be best make a RU Tier same at BL... I dont agree with these for NU [spoiler] Absol Ampharos Armaldo Digglett (Seriously?) Electabuzz Electrode Grumpig Hitmonchan(pls no) Hitmontop Jumpluff Jinx (Maybe no) Lapras Mantine Mr. Mime (CM + Barrier) Nidoking Nidoqueen Pikachu Politoed Poliwrath (Sub+Belly and fuck the alls) Raichu Sandslash (This shit will be in all teams, i think just tangela can tank it) Sharpedo Shiftry Solrock (CB or CB Set are too strong) Walrein Zangoose [/spoiler] Basically I dont like anything of this new tier Yaguarete and Gilvy 2 Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I was very excited by the return of nu but This tier isnt NU, this is like UU tier, so many pokes of this list are so OP for NU but is a shit in UU, i think it would be best make a RU Tier same at BL... I dont agree with these for NU [spoiler] Absol Ampharos Armaldo Digglett (Seriously?) Electabuzz Electrode Grumpig Hitmonchan(pls no) Hitmontop Jumpluff Jinx (Maybe no) Lapras Mantine Mr. Mime (CM + Barrier) Nidoking Nidoqueen Pikachu Politoed Poliwrath (Sub+Belly and fuck the alls) Raichu Sandslash (This shit will be in all teams, i think just tangela can tank it) Sharpedo Shiftry Solrock (CB or CB Set are too strong) Walrein Zangoose [/spoiler] Basically I dont like anything of this new tier The Pokémon you mentioned are in your eyes 'UU' (or lel RU) because you saw them in UU before the split and therefore automatically deem them too strong for NU. However, NU was never well established anyway, it was just made off a shitty list Archinix made. There was no 'NUness' about them they were merely Pokémon not seen, while there were countless of other Pokémon that shared the same traits but did not make it to NU because Archinix didn't think of those. There has been a power creep in tiers with the usage based system and it accurately represents OU, UU and NU IMO. tl;dr: stop thinking about the NU of yesterday, as it never truly was NU Gunthug 1 Link to comment
Bale11 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 And finally -after asking every day to noad about when is nu gonna be launched, tell me some hints about the new pokes xD - we have never used!. Some new pokes we have not seen, a lot of them. About Pikachu, I think pikachu is not overpowered because: - It can't switch in-switch out so many times like a "snorlax" or "vaporeon". In fact, it can't switch-in at least one, unless in a double switch. - So many top tier pokes learn priorty moves (like fearow, hitmonchan, hitmontop). - A lot of speedties and another poke faster than pikachu. Link to comment
Yaguarete Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) This isn't true. Tangela, Sableye, Glalie, Cacturne, Bellossom, Raticate, Relicanth will still be popular. Other pokemon like Swalot, Piloswine, Dewgong, Seadra may see less usage but it is much better this way because then we no longer have to see both opponents having the same pokemon. Other pokemon like Venomoth have also become more viable with dual stabs becoming special and these can be used as well. All in all, no one is stopping you from using them other than yourself. If you believe in "true never used" then go ahead and use them and make good use of it. this is all that you can remember ? i have a list with 50+ pokes and the most arent were-UUs im talking of the other 40 pokes that you didnt mentioned. -------------------- On the other hand, im wondering why people that doesnt like the challenge of play with many disadvantages in their teams are participating in this thread. That factors that some calls "shit" or "crap" and i call disadvantages, are the niche of this tier; and it will be lost with pokes that can do things in a easier way. Im seeing that the most of the new "NU players" that will appear now will be using exactly those pokes that some players here could indicate like too strong for the tier (and not the others). Edited June 2, 2015 by Yaguarete Link to comment
felix Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 this is all that you can remember ? i have a list with 50+ pokes and the most arent were-UUs im talking of the other 40 pokes that you didnt mentioned. -------------------- On the other hand, im wondering why people that doesnt like the challenge of play with many disadvantages in their teams are participating in this thread. That factors that some calls "shit" or "crap" and i call disadvantages, are the niche of this tier; and it will be lost with pokes that can do things in a easier way. Im seeing that the most of the new "NU players" that will appear now will be using exactly those pokes that some players here could indicate like too strong for the tier (and not the others). brah, I had lots of fun doing the older NU, but when you need to go down to uts for synergy, it was a clear thing that something is missing. In the end, even with the older NU, some mons would never seen the light (e.g. Dustox, Beautifly, Murkrow, Delibird, Farfetch'd, Furret, Illumise, Volbeat) and they will stay that way. The old NU was boring, mostly of the teams had at least 3 of the same mons due to the lack of options (and creativity). Right now, it looks like lots of powerhouses, but give it a try, lets see how it goes, prob some bans will come (prob not), don't cry about the ones nobody uses, they will still not beeing used, no matter how many of those from this list will be removed. Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Lapras is way too strong for this tier. Bad typing, but who cares!!! The base stats on this monsters overly compensate for the weaknesses. Since Pikachu will most likely be banned, what special attacker in the tier can safely switch in on him? 252+ SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lapras: 234-276 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery The perish trapper set is nearly impossible to stop... Edited June 2, 2015 by lamerb Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Just figured I need to link this here to gain some perspective. XY NU had 226 Pokemon. If anything, what this thread has already told is that many people find different stuff as the main threats. In a tier no one has played. So currently, it's impossible to tell what is good and what isn't. We had yesterday multiple duels in PTS and I guess it gave us some overall look what is good and what isn't but that really requires a lot more battles than that. I do agree Pikachu might just be the worst offender of all so far and I definitely would think it sucks if people actually farm BP for them if it's found too good but I don't think you can entirely say it destroys everything, outspeeds everything and so on. The point of ThinkNice saying it cannot switch is a major downfall to it. I mean heck, I even was afraid of Pikachu every single time I've faced it in UU - sometimes even in OU. Yet, despite its firepower its usage was so low it got to NUs. What I hope is that people instead of speculating too much would try the tier in PTS for example, give some feedback and especially stop remembering what "used to be OU/UU/NU before". Edited June 2, 2015 by OrangeManiac fredrichnietze 1 Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 i played 2 nu battles today. both times i completely swept my opponent with a sub/bdrum @salac poliwrath. mines wild caught and is not even close to godly, but both times it set up sub easily (the second time the sub lived a EQ from cradalily with 4 hp invest) bdrumed to salac and +6 then swept. my opponents hitmontop's mach couldnt even break the sub. while this is real experience not calcs, so the data isnt with everything being equal. it does paint a interesting picture of poliwrath's strength if nothing else. viable dual coverage would be 2 of EQ/BB/i punch/waterfall/return base stats are 90 / 85 / 95 / 70 / 90 / 70 Link to comment
Rigamorty Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Memento Jumpluff + Belly drum poliwrath will rek everything Link to comment
Kizhaz Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Haze Mantine best stop to drum wrath dedegendut and felix 2 Link to comment
NikhilR Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 this is all that you can remember ? i have a list with 50+ pokes and the most arent were-UUs im talking of the other 40 pokes that you didnt mentioned. -------------------- On the other hand, im wondering why people that doesnt like the challenge of play with many disadvantages in their teams are participating in this thread. That factors that some calls "shit" or "crap" and i call disadvantages, are the niche of this tier; and it will be lost with pokes that can do things in a easier way. Im seeing that the most of the new "NU players" that will appear now will be using exactly those pokes that some players here could indicate like too strong for the tier (and not the others). If you ran any other pokemon other than the ones I've mentioned, then I can safely say that you have never won anything in the previous NU meta. If you're going to play to win then you run the best pokemon, not "true NUs". Please tell me what your other 40 pokemon were as well. No one is stopping you from using "true NUs" either, because if your entire point of playing is to have fun, then you can do so by running whatever you like. If you're gonna play to win, then learn to adapt. It is a natural thing for people to use the most strong pokemon in the tier, I don't know why you're looking at it in a bad way. Link to comment
londark Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) If you ran any other pokemon other than the ones I've mentioned, then I can safely say that you have never won anything in the previous NU meta. If you're going to play to win then you run the best pokemon, not "true NUs". Please tell me what your other 40 pokemon were as well. We aready discussed about this even with the old NU, let's just ignore him EDIT: To stay on Topic, i see poliwrath as healty for the meta since it stops decently threats like Kabutops and Sharpedo Edited June 2, 2015 by londark Kanzo and NikhilR 2 Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Its kinda exxagerated how Poli sets up on a lot of mons. First of all it would be easier to do this in UU as it is a tier more dominated with bulky waters while I predict that bulky grass types will be more of a thing in NU. Memento Pluff though is just more of a reason to ban it for support. Link to comment
NikhilR Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Its kinda exxagerated how Poli sets up on a lot of mons. First of all it would be easier to do this in UU as it is a tier more dominated with bulky waters while I predict that bulky grass types will be more of a thing in NU. Memento Pluff though is just more of a reason to ban it for support. Tbh Poli can find ways to set up on Banded Sharpedo/Kabutops as well. Not saying that Poli is op or anything but there are opportunities for it to set up. I think glalie can also be set up bait if it doesn't carry hp grass/electric. Edited June 2, 2015 by NikhilR Link to comment
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