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Preliminary NU Tier


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Senile, you realize you calced for HitmonCHAN right? So c'mon, lets not look dumb here.

252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hitmontop: 61-73 (38.8 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hitmontop: 67-81 (42.6 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
You fell for my trap card, kek. #baited

 

The same has been said when it was UU Senile amd there was more that could beat it there.

But sleep was better back then, now Sleep Powder is a hollow shell of the move it used to be; Jumpluff running around sleeping shit isn't nearly as big of a deal now as it used to be.

 

Also, it probably shouldn't have been banned back then either, hue; but either way, that was ages ago and isn't really relevant now, much less to NU, so hue.

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lets talk about walls. before you can say "hey this sweeper is too op" you need to have a good understanding of what their is wall wise to deal with said sweeper.

 

 

-special walls

 

bulky waters

mantine

pros best spdef in nu(pls dont make me actually count), can phsy wall too, good movepool

cons 4x electric weakness

clampearl

pros can run items to double spa att OR spa def, great defensive typing, decent moveset

cons cant run leftovers or any other item, no insta heal

 

ampharos

pros very high spa att, great movepool on both phsy/spec side, can run agility to outspeed entire tier

cons weak to the common EQ, no insta heal

 

delcatty

pros can cleric, can use many boosting moves, great special wall typing

cons poor base stats, set up bait for several thinggs

 

grumpig

pros useful ability/defensive typing, good moveset, can cm sweep, can WW

cons weak to several common moves, set up bait for several things

 

wigglytuff

pros perfect defensive typing for spec wall, can insta heal, can cleric, great movepool

cons set up bait for several things

 

togetic

pros great moveset, insta heal, immune to EQ

cons weak to electric/ice, not the best base stats

 

swalot

pros can run phsy or spec attacker, can run phsy or spec wall, can curse, great movepool

cons weak to the common EQ, set up bait for some things, inferior to muk

 

noctowl

pros great defensive typing for spec wall, can WW, decent movepool

cons not the best base stats, ability helps and hurts noctowl, weak to some common moves

 

muk

pros great offensive pressure, great moveset, can go spec of phsy attacker

cons weak to the common EQ, not the best def, no good phsy stab move

 

mr mime

pros great spec def, can set up for days, great base stats, great movepool

cons cm wars, no insta heal, pp stall wars, set up bait for some things

 

kecleon

pros great ability, great spec def, decent movepool, can insta heal

cons knowledgeable opponent can abuse your ability, set up bait for some things

 

dustox

pros great movepool, can WW

cons bad defensive typing, outclassed by several things

 

-physical walls

 

bulky waters

lapras

pros water absorb, great bulk, great spec moveset, decent phsy moveset, can perish trap, can haze

cons bad defensive typing

politoed

pros water absorb, best phsy bulk of all the waters cept lapras, great defensive typing, good spec moveset, can perish, can haze

cons not much

mantine

pros great defensive typing, waterabsorb, decent spec moveset, can haze, can spec wall too, can haze

cons 4x electric weakness

corsala 

pros resist several common types, gets recover, gets lots of boosting moves, great moveset

cons worse base stats of the bulky waters, weak to several common types, 4x grass weakness

walrein

pros amazing moveset, great base stats, gloriouswalrus

cons bad defensive typing, somewhat outclassed by lapras unless you are running one of the moves lapras cant.

dewgong

completely outclassed by walrein

clampearl

pros can run items to double spa att OR spa def, great defensive typing, decent moveset

cons cant run leftovers or any other item, no insta heal

relicanth

great offensive movepool

cons several common weakness's, no good healing

 

aggron

pros best defense stat in tier, great offense, great movepool

cons no insta heal, slow, 4x weak to ground/fight and wea tot he common water

 

armaldo

pros can set up, great defensive typing, great movepool

cons no insta heal, slow, weak to the common surf

 

bellossom

pros great movepool, great base stats, insta heal

cons weak to several common moves

 

tangela

pros great movepool, great defense of a poke with insta heal

cons several common weakness's, bad sp def

 

chimeco

pros can quickly become very dangerous with cm, insta heal, great movepool, immune to EQ

cons pursuit trapping

 

cradalily

pros great defensive typing, insta heal, great movepool, near immpossible to guess moveset

cons weak to fight, set up bait for some things

 

galie

pros can spike can boom, great movepool

cons set up bait for some things, predictable, bad defensive typing

 

hitmontop

pros best nu intimidator, can bulk up, has priority, can pursuit trap

cons no insta heal, not the best offensive coverage, weak to the common flying

 

jumpluff

pros fast, great movepool, fast, can sleep, fast, insta heal, encore, did i mention fast?

cons 4x weak to ice, sleep got nerfed, sleep clause

 

lunatone

pros can quickly become offensive threat with cm, insta heal, great typing

cons cm wars

 

mawile

pros intimidate, can quickly become offensive with sd, decent movepool

cons weak to the common eq and fight, not the best base stats.

 

nidoqueen

pros godly movepool with coverage on everything, insta heal, immune to twave and toxic

cons weak to several common moves

 

parasect

pros it's parasect

cons none it's parasect

 

sableye

pros insta heal, great typing, can cm, great movepool

cons relatively low base stats, predictable

 

shedninja

pros immune to most typings, with SD cna quickly become very dangerous

cons sandstorm, hail, spikees, toxic, wow, every hit that does dmg 1hko

 

solrock

pros great defensive typing, great moveset, phsyical moveset pretty good

cons several common weakness's

 

torkoal

pros spinner, can boom, great phsy/spec movepoo

cons healing? weak to a few common moves

 

 

tropius?

peliper?

wynaut?

is shuckle a mistake?

 

i hope this helps when trying to figure out counters for scary things

 

 

 

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Pikachu so stronk, but mach punch chases it away every time. The unfortunate thing is that there doesn't look like there are any wish passers to support hitmontop. Guess a ban should be considered honestly.

Edit: that was dirty, you should know im vulnerable posting from my phone while bored at work

Edited by DoubleJ
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Pikachu so stronk, but mach punch chases it away every time. The unfortunate thing is that there doesn't look like there are any wish passers to support hitmontop. Guess a ban should be considered honestly.

Edit: that was dirty, you should know im vulnerable posting from my phone while bored at work

 

Togetic and Wigglytuff are "alright" wish passes I guess. Inb4 someone makes wish hypno.

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Pikachu so stronk, but mach punch chases it away every time. The unfortunate thing is that there doesn't look like there are any wish passers to support hitmontop. Guess a ban should be considered honestly.

togetic, wigglytuff, girafaraig, jynx, delcatty, plusel, minium, chimeco, lickitung, absol, and for shits and giggles pikachu if you get bored 

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Personally, I think pikachu deserves an instant ban. Not only because of it's raw power on paper, but also because to actually test it might be problematic, considering how unbeleivably expensive a full pikachu set costs. I know battle frontier should help with BP a little bit, but we're still talking about tens of thousands of BP to drop on a surf/extremespeed pika, not to mention the possibility of other moves like leaf storm and fake out. Even though its really OP, we may not see it on display that much in the first few weeks of NU (though this could just be speculation)

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Personally, I think pikachu deserves an instant ban. Not only because of it's raw power on paper, but also because to actually test it might be problematic, considering how unbeleivably expensive a full pikachu set costs. I know battle frontier should help with BP a little bit, but we're still talking about tens of thousands of BP to drop on a surf/extremespeed pika, not to mention the possibility of other moves like leaf storm and fake out. Even though its really OP, we may not see it on display that much in the first few weeks of NU (though this could just be speculation)

I mean, we're testing stuff out on the PTS server m8, come on and join, kek.

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I think people are forgetting how Pikachu can not switch in at all. How it gets shit on by Mach Punches and how his Espeed can't knock out most of the Pokémon faster than it. Even if it switches in Ampharos can set a Light Screen up, calm Bello can 2hko, modest can OHKO, Whiscash doesn't fear it that much (if you run HP Grass you are literally walled by every grass) and then you have TF Grumpig. These are probably Pokémon that naturally will have a lot of usage. And there are even more checks to this thing like Top, Buzz, Cradily, Electrode, Muk, Slash, Shedinja, Swalot etc

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I think people are forgetting how Pikachu can not switch in at all. How it gets shit on by Mach Punches and how his Espeed can't knock out most of the Pokémon faster than it. Even if it switches in Ampharos can set a Light Screen up, calm Bello can 2hko, modest can OHKO, Whiscash doesn't fear it that much (if you run HP Grass you are literally walled by every grass) and then you have TF Grumpig. These are probably Pokémon that naturally will have a lot of usage. And there are even more checks to this thing like Top, Buzz, Cradily, Electrode, Muk, Slash, Shedinja, Swalot etc


Trueeeee
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I was very excited by the return of nu but This tier isnt NU, this is like UU tier, so many pokes of this list are so OP for NU but is a shit in UU, i think it would be best make a RU Tier same at BL... 
 
I dont agree with these for NU
 
[spoiler]
Absol
Ampharos
Armaldo
Digglett (Seriously?)
Electabuzz
Electrode
Grumpig
Hitmonchan(pls no)
Hitmontop
Jumpluff
Jinx (Maybe no)
Lapras
Mantine
Mr. Mime (CM + Barrier)
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Pikachu
Politoed
Poliwrath (Sub+Belly and fuck the alls)
Raichu
Sandslash (This shit will be in all teams, i think just tangela can tank it)
Sharpedo
Shiftry 
Solrock (CB or CB Set are too strong)
Walrein
Zangoose 
[/spoiler]
 
Basically I dont like anything of this new tier
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I was very excited by the return of nu but This tier isnt NU, this is like UU tier, so many pokes of this list are so OP for NU but is a shit in UU, i think it would be best make a RU Tier same at BL... 
 
I dont agree with these for NU
 
[spoiler]
Absol
Ampharos
Armaldo
Digglett (Seriously?)
Electabuzz
Electrode
Grumpig
Hitmonchan(pls no)
Hitmontop
Jumpluff
Jinx (Maybe no)
Lapras
Mantine
Mr. Mime (CM + Barrier)
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Pikachu
Politoed
Poliwrath (Sub+Belly and fuck the alls)
Raichu
Sandslash (This shit will be in all teams, i think just tangela can tank it)
Sharpedo
Shiftry 
Solrock (CB or CB Set are too strong)
Walrein
Zangoose 
[/spoiler]
 
Basically I dont like anything of this new tier

 

The Pokémon you mentioned are in your eyes 'UU' (or lel RU) because you saw them in UU before the split and therefore automatically deem them too strong for NU. However, NU was never well established anyway, it was just made off a shitty list Archinix made. There was no 'NUness' about them they were merely Pokémon not seen, while there were countless of other Pokémon that shared the same traits but did not make it to NU because Archinix didn't think of those. There has been a power creep in tiers with the usage based system and it accurately represents OU, UU and NU IMO.

 

tl;dr: stop thinking about the NU of yesterday, as it never truly was NU

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And finally -after asking every day to noad about when is nu gonna be launched, tell me some hints about the new pokes xD - we have never used!.

 

Some new pokes we have not seen, a lot of them.

 

About Pikachu, I think pikachu is not overpowered because:

 

- It can't switch in-switch out so many times like a "snorlax" or "vaporeon". In fact, it can't switch-in at least one, unless in a double switch.

- So many top tier pokes learn priorty moves (like fearow, hitmonchan, hitmontop).

- A lot of speedties and another poke faster than pikachu.

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This isn't true. Tangela, Sableye, Glalie, Cacturne, Bellossom, Raticate, Relicanth will still be popular. Other pokemon like Swalot, Piloswine, Dewgong, Seadra may see less usage but it is much better this way because then we no longer have to see both opponents having the same pokemon. Other pokemon like Venomoth have also become more viable with dual stabs becoming special and these can be used as well. All in all, no one is stopping you from using them other than yourself. If you believe in "true never used" then go ahead and use them and make good use of it. 

 

this is all that you can remember ? i have a list with 50+ pokes and the most arent were-UUs

im talking of the other 40 pokes that you didnt mentioned.

--------------------


On the other hand, im wondering why people that doesnt like the challenge of play with many disadvantages in their teams are participating in this thread.

That factors that some calls "shit" or "crap" and i call disadvantages, are the niche of this tier; and it will be lost with pokes that can do things in a easier way.

Im seeing that the most of the new "NU players" that will appear now will be using exactly those pokes that some players here could indicate like too strong for the tier (and not the others).

Edited by Yaguarete
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this is all that you can remember ? i have a list with 50+ pokes and the most arent were-UUs

im talking of the other 40 pokes that you didnt mentioned.

--------------------


On the other hand, im wondering why people that doesnt like the challenge of play with many disadvantages in their teams are participating in this thread.

That factors that some calls "shit" or "crap" and i call disadvantages, are the niche of this tier; and it will be lost with pokes that can do things in a easier way.

Im seeing that the most of the new "NU players" that will appear now will be using exactly those pokes that some players here could indicate like too strong for the tier (and not the others).

brah, I had lots of fun doing the older NU, but when you need to go down to uts for synergy, it was a clear thing that something is missing. In the end, even with the older NU, some mons would never seen the light (e.g. Dustox, Beautifly, Murkrow, Delibird, Farfetch'd, Furret, Illumise, Volbeat) and they will stay that way. The old NU was boring, mostly of the teams had at least 3 of the same mons due to the lack of options (and creativity).

 

Right now, it looks like lots of powerhouses, but give it a try, lets see how it goes, prob some bans will come (prob not), don't cry about the ones nobody uses, they will still not beeing used, no matter how many of those from this list will be removed.

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Lapras is way too strong for this tier. Bad typing, but who cares!!! The base stats on this monsters overly compensate for the weaknesses.
 

Since Pikachu will most likely be banned, what special attacker in the tier can safely switch in on him?

 

252+ SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lapras: 234-276 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

The perish trapper set is nearly impossible to stop...

Edited by lamerb
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Just figured I need to link this here to gain some perspective. XY NU had 226 Pokemon.

If anything, what this thread has already told is that many people find different stuff as the main threats. In a tier no one has played. So currently, it's impossible to tell what is good and what isn't. We had yesterday multiple duels in PTS and I guess it gave us some overall look what is good and what isn't but that really requires a lot more battles than that.

I do agree Pikachu might just be the worst offender of all so far and I definitely would think it sucks if people actually farm BP for them if it's found too good but I don't think you can entirely say it destroys everything, outspeeds everything and so on. The point of ThinkNice saying it cannot switch is a major downfall to it. I mean heck, I even was afraid of Pikachu every single time I've faced it in UU - sometimes even in OU. Yet, despite its firepower its usage was so low it got to NUs. What I hope is that people instead of speculating too much would try the tier in PTS for example, give some feedback and especially stop remembering what "used to be OU/UU/NU before".

Edited by OrangeManiac
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i played 2 nu battles today. both times i completely swept my opponent with a sub/bdrum @salac poliwrath. mines wild caught and is not even close to godly, but both times it set up sub easily (the second time the sub lived a EQ from cradalily with 4 hp invest) bdrumed to salac and +6 then swept. my opponents hitmontop's mach couldnt even break the sub.

while this is real experience not calcs, so the data isnt with everything being equal. it does paint a interesting picture of poliwrath's strength if nothing else.

viable dual coverage would be 2 of EQ/BB/i punch/waterfall/return

 

base stats are 90 / 85 / 95 / 70 / 90 / 70

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this is all that you can remember ? i have a list with 50+ pokes and the most arent were-UUs

im talking of the other 40 pokes that you didnt mentioned.

--------------------


On the other hand, im wondering why people that doesnt like the challenge of play with many disadvantages in their teams are participating in this thread.

That factors that some calls "shit" or "crap" and i call disadvantages, are the niche of this tier; and it will be lost with pokes that can do things in a easier way.

Im seeing that the most of the new "NU players" that will appear now will be using exactly those pokes that some players here could indicate like too strong for the tier (and not the others).

 

If you ran any other pokemon other than the ones I've mentioned, then I can safely say that you have never won anything in the previous NU meta. If you're going to play to win then you run the best pokemon, not "true NUs". Please tell me what your other 40 pokemon were as well. 

 

No one is stopping you from using "true NUs" either, because if your entire point of playing is to have fun, then you can do so by running whatever you like. If you're gonna play to win, then learn to adapt.

 

It is a natural thing for people to use the most strong pokemon in the tier, I don't know why you're looking at it in a bad way. 

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If you ran any other pokemon other than the ones I've mentioned, then I can safely say that you have never won anything in the previous NU meta. If you're going to play to win then you run the best pokemon, not "true NUs". Please tell me what your other 40 pokemon were as well. 

 

We aready discussed about this even with the old NU, let's just ignore him

 

EDIT: To stay on Topic, i see poliwrath as healty for the meta since it stops decently threats like Kabutops and Sharpedo

Edited by londark
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Its kinda exxagerated how Poli sets up on a lot of mons. First of all it would be easier to do this in UU as it is a tier more dominated with bulky waters while I predict that bulky grass types will be more of a thing in NU. Memento Pluff though is just more of a reason to ban it for support.

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Its kinda exxagerated how Poli sets up on a lot of mons. First of all it would be easier to do this in UU as it is a tier more dominated with bulky waters while I predict that bulky grass types will be more of a thing in NU. Memento Pluff though is just more of a reason to ban it for support.

 

Tbh Poli can find ways to set up on Banded Sharpedo/Kabutops as well. Not saying that Poli is op or anything but there are opportunities for it to set up. I think glalie can also be set up bait if it doesn't carry hp grass/electric. 

Edited by NikhilR
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