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UU Tier Discussion Request Thread


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Miltank is totally shut down by Misdreavus and Sableye, Cradily has much better odds of winning against it as well, sub twave focus punch aggron also should be able to beat it. Shuckle can conpletely stall it out and severely cripple its recovery with knock off.

 

Im more concerned about Golem rather than Miltank. Cradily is very common itself and Miltank's usage does not indicate even a test. It is a poke which's usage has risen recently and meta has to adapt to it, Cow has really hard counters and it requires plenty of support to be actually threatening in our meta.

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4 hours ago, SweeTforU said:

Yall can't be serious about tenta lmaoo

Plebs from OU started using it cuz it stops Venu. And Venu is fucking cancer.

Im super curious how a meta without Tenta will look like, just another reason to run Meganium prob

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I believe the main problem with golem is how slow it is, the majority of the time it wont be coming in just to preserve sturdy, thus it is almost forced to be used as a lead however golem should only be getting one kill unless it comes in on a predicted switch into a wall it can break. I don't see why golem is a huge problem seeing as you can shut down the momentum a lead golem has by running protect lead + resists or meganium, even if you decide to run an offensive team golem should only realistically be killing one mon. Considering the most reliable spinner has also moved up it should be a lost easier to remove sturdy.

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I took a look at our little Borderline 1 ban list, and started mulling over if we could test anything in the future should Golem remain in the tier. The list includes Dodrio, Feraligatr, Hariyama, Houndoom, Kangaskhan, Linoone, Machamp, Marowak, Ursaring, and Zangoose. Of those, only Houndoom and Ursaring are above the cut-off.

 

Dodrio - Certainly not. This thing is an absolute beast, sits in a brand new speed tier all by its lonesome, and carries Low Kick to eliminate heavy ass Aggron and/or Golem.

 

Hariyama - UU lacks any quality special attacker that can strike this beast with a SE attack. Jynx possibly, but with the popularity of Pursuit in the tier I doubt Jynx would feel very comfortable spamming Psychic at a Hariyama. It's defensive characteristics make it simply too good for our tier when you think about its offensive variability. 

 

Kangaskhan - It was banned for being unhealthy for the tier, but that was before we were introduced to Sturdy. Without a move to effectively hit Golem, prefers Return + Fire Punch, Kangaskhan could be pressured far more than it had been before. As our favorite stall user, we might want to consider the prevalence of Curse Cow and Curse + Rest Cradily when considering Kanga as well, since both of them truly punish the standard SpDef set. Might we consider testing Kanga if Golem sticks around? I say why not. 

 

Linoone - Yea, no. 

 

Machamp - Machamp seems like an inferior Hariyama when you consider there movesets and abilities, but honestly this thing could act as a hit-and-run specialist breaking through the tier fairly easily. We lack a reliable Ghost to predict those Superpowers. Machamp can also break Meganium which Golem has trouble doing thanks to its sub-par speed. 

 

Marowak - Ok, this one is tough for me. In all honesty, all of the common shit in UU can touch Marowak. Like everything, well ok maybe not Altaria. The only set that really scares me is Sub + 3 attacks, considering it gets a free swing at everything in the tier. Adamant Fire Punch does roughly 66% tops to a 107 speed Bold Meganium. There isn't really a Fire Punch absorber that can come in and RK if Marowak has that sub up, which in all honesty it can probably get against our stall heavy tier. So in the end, this might not be the best option to test, but something to consider when Vaporeon + Meganium are around. 

 

Zangoose - Nah. 

 

 

tl;dr Why not rethink Kangaskhan if we keep Golem? Don't jump down my throat, just considering something is all. 

 

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4 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

I took a look at our little Borderline 1 ban list, and started mulling over if we could test anything in the future should Golem remain in the tier. The list includes Dodrio, Feraligatr, Hariyama, Houndoom, Kangaskhan, Linoone, Machamp, Marowak, Ursaring, and Zangoose. Of those, only Houndoom and Ursaring are above the cut-off.

 

Dodrio - Certainly not. This thing is an absolute beast, sits in a brand new speed tier all by its lonesome, and carries Low Kick to eliminate heavy ass Aggron and/or Golem.

 

Hariyama - UU lacks any quality special attacker that can strike this beast with a SE attack. Jynx possibly, but with the popularity of Pursuit in the tier I doubt Jynx would feel very comfortable spamming Psychic at a Hariyama. It's defensive characteristics make it simply too good for our tier when you think about its offensive variability. 

 

Kangaskhan - It was banned for being unhealthy for the tier, but that was before we were introduced to Sturdy. Without a move to effectively hit Golem, prefers Return + Fire Punch, Kangaskhan could be pressured far more than it had been before. As our favorite stall user, we might want to consider the prevalence of Curse Cow and Curse + Rest Cradily when considering Kanga as well, since both of them truly punish the standard SpDef set. Might we consider testing Kanga if Golem sticks around? I say why not. 

 

Linoone - Yea, no. 

 

Machamp - Machamp seems like an inferior Hariyama when you consider there movesets and abilities, but honestly this thing could act as a hit-and-run specialist breaking through the tier fairly easily. We lack a reliable Ghost to predict those Superpowers. Machamp can also break Meganium which Golem has trouble doing thanks to its sub-par speed. 

 

Marowak - Ok, this one is tough for me. In all honesty, all of the common shit in UU can touch Marowak. Like everything, well ok maybe not Altaria. The only set that really scares me is Sub + 3 attacks, considering it gets a free swing at everything in the tier. Adamant Fire Punch does roughly 66% tops to a 107 speed Bold Meganium. There isn't really a Fire Punch absorber that can come in and RK if Marowak has that sub up, which in all honesty it can probably get against our stall heavy tier. So in the end, this might not be the best option to test, but something to consider when Vaporeon + Meganium are around. 

 

Zangoose - Nah. 

 

 

tl;dr Why not rethink Kangaskhan if we keep Golem? Don't jump down my throat, just considering something is all. 

 

I was thinking the same about kangaskhan, even though it was only like 3 months ago (around there), the meta has changed a lot. Curse miltank and curse cradily increased in popularity a lot, which hurts kangaskhan's viability, as they both have similar roles to kangaskhan, act as a more consistent win condition, and can use kangaskhan to set up on. Golem will also force kangaskhan to make some sacrifice on its moveslots. Golem will resist its standard normal+fire coverage and not mind toxic too much, but it probably takes a pretty big chunk from earthquake. There's also a lot more opportunity cost of running kangaskhan. As tentacruel has left the tier, kangaskhan no longer has the super reliable answer to omastar. Special attacking exeggutor is much more popular than the defensive exeggutor, which pressures kangaskhan very easily. 

 

Machamp and hariyama have too much bulk to make up for their mediocre speed.

 

Marowak probably hits a bit too hard and has pretty solid coverage (I think the only thing that really walls marowak is solrock). Jolly earthquake is a guarenteed 2hko on vaporeon and jolly fire punch 2hkos meganium as well, although meganium has the potential to outspeed marowak. Its double edge is fairly spammable too, since it doesn't have sturdy, it can run rock head fairly easily, and there isn't much that can survive a double edge and threaten marowak without getting bopped by something else before it attacks. 

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I was talking with I think Gazelli (was it you? Im not sure) about Kanga before. I think we are overseeing one, very important characteristic- Kanga is actually a really good offensive weapon as well. With Fake Out it can also deal with the Golem lead, reliably removing Sturdy while still preserving the necessary firepower. I actually think the sdef Kanga wouldnt be as viable as it was before, UU is full of anti-kanga pokes nowdays, Diglett is always there and with Shed Hull Kanga gets 2shoted by some powerful specs users.

 

At first I laughed at myself when I thought of bringing down Kanga, considering how stally are brains of the players currently, but I think now, when stally Kanga becomes less viable, it might be worth bringing it down for it's offensive versatility.

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9 hours ago, RysPicz said:

I was talking with I think Gazelli (was it you? Im not sure) about Kanga before. I think we are overseeing one, very important characteristic- Kanga is actually a really good offensive weapon as well. With Fake Out it can also deal with the Golem lead, reliably removing Sturdy while still preserving the necessary firepower. I actually think the sdef Kanga wouldnt be as viable as it was before, UU is full of anti-kanga pokes nowdays, Diglett is always there and with Shed Hull Kanga gets 2shoted by some powerful specs users.

 

At first I laughed at myself when I thought of bringing down Kanga, considering how stally are brains of the players currently, but I think now, when stally Kanga becomes less viable, it might be worth bringing it down for it's offensive versatility.

Yeah zebra and I talked a little about the offensive set in chat yesterday. I think it's powerful but not problematic, might actually prove useful and a good thing in our current UU meta. The question becomes whether answers for the offensive set are powerless against the spdef set and vice versa, because that would be a problem. But I don't think that's the case - unlike something like gengar where guessing wrong on its set can and usually will lose you a poke, kanga can be scouted with less risk imo 

Edited by Gunthug
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