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UU Tier Discussion Request Thread


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I've been kind of busy and away from the discussion so I'm kind of surprised of what i can see right now about the UU tiers which is the one I appreciate the most right now. I must acknowledge that Tiers Council did a really good job on it banning Typhlo and Sceptile who were really too restrictive for any offensive tambuilding. Moreover, even if i fought with gb hundreds of hours on Kangashkan, if i hate the hyper authoritian way the test-ban was done, and if i'm still not sure if it's banworthy, i think the Kanga-less meta is really enjoyable and a lot more diverse. So, good job on that and heil gb, Pol Pot of the TC. 

 

Those bans allowed many new different defensive and offensive cores and strategies to appear.

I clearly lol at the few post who blame a concentration around the curse set of Miltank and Crad.

For the case of Miltank, the biggest problem of Miltank is its poor special bulk that don't allow it to reliably switch in against Manectric, Crobat, Jynx and other fast special attackers. When it start cursing, it's easily countered by Armaldo, Scizor and Misdra (or a Toxic user if it has fire punch), Aggron, Golem etc. Even some roar Steelix or Taunting Crobat trouble it.

Oh and it's a bait for curse cradily too which makes me come to the second point on how unbroken is crad. As @RysPicz acknowledged it, its shamefull lose against a curse crad is only due to a very poor teambuilding. If cradily use recover for its curse set, it's dealt with a simple toxic so it won't beat a stall team but can be a problem for offensive teams. Although, i'd be really ashamed for bringing something offensive without a way to 1-2hko a crad at +1. If it uses rest, then it can be a super weapon against a stall team which rely on indirect damages but is really weak against an offensive team as it will have troubles to take repeated hits. Whatever the set, Scizor beats it (even hp fire won't ohko and Scizor can heal itself), Hitmonlee can manage to switch in, Steelix shits on it, Aggron, LO Exeg can even switch in and troubles it a lot. And, I'll repeat myself, but toxic users can all come in and put a timer on it. Then, its weaknesses let it open to revenge kill (or kill during the rest turns) such as Jynx or Lapras. Moreover, the curse set up takes a lot of time so you have a lot of opportunities to play mind games (or sack something to rk before it reach a non-return point).

 

For the case of the borderline mons like Haryama or Gator, letting them come down in UU is obviously a bad idea considering they can beat the whole metagames so easily and have bulk to come in frequently. 

On the case of Donphan, I really don't think it's banworthy even if it's super powerfull, especially when paired with things that love to come on its 2 sure grass counters (dd altaria, banded aerial ace crobat, glalie, etc.). However, there are other powerfull offensive and defensive cores (crad+slowking, hitmonlee+crawdaunt, etc.), and cores that can stop them, which is why a discussion on Donphan is uneeded in my opinion.

 

Finally, i really feel like UU is enjoyable, on the point that i'm even thinking about skipping a party on friday to play a tournament haha (which i haven't since a too long time). I've been seeing different forms of teambuild, relying on different cores and strategies. I can think of offensive, balanced and stall teambuilds I've seen or played myself, and that had success. Moreover, the meta has threats that are very hard to handle (but still manageable) for some playstyle but that don't work has effectively against others (rest curse crad or LO tox exeg against stall, SD Sneasel or weather pokes against offense, etc.).

 

In a nutshell, i don't really understand the complains about UU as in my eyes, every playstyle seems available and enjoyable in UU right now. But maybe i'm a litlle bit blind about it.

 

EDIT : wow fuck vap just got down, all above is now null and void then

Edited by Guerinf
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UU Discussion [Kingler]

 

In this discussion I meant that Kingler has to be UU.
Since in its current tier NU is too strong Why?
Kingler is able to kill all Nu walls of OHKO and 2 OHKO.

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Muk: 120-142 (56.6 - 66.9%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery


252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 94-112 (59.8 - 71.3%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Superpower Vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Kecleon: 298-352 (178.4 - 210.7%) - guaranteed OHKO


252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 109-130 (69.4 - 82.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Grumpig: 160-190 (85.5 - 101.6%) - 12.5% chance to OHKO


252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solrock: 204-242 (115.2 - 136.7%) - guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mantine: 190-224 (110.4 - 130.2%) - guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Claydol: 194-230 (116.1 - 137.7%) - guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 146-174 (82.4 - 98.3%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Claydol: 180-212 (107.7 - 126.9%) - guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Superpower Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 174-206 (80.1 - 94.9%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Superpower Vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Wigglytuff: 280-330 (113.3 - 133.6%) - guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Swalot: 114-135 (55 - 65.2%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 102-120 (80.3 - 94.4%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With this we can observe that kingler is too strong in the UN tier.
In addition to this it could ague shocks of physical sweepers NU due to their
High defenses.

252 Atk Choice Band Fearow Double-Edge Vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingler: 108-127 (83 - 97.6%) - guaranteed 2HKO

Enduring the double edge could top off a fearrow with rock slide

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Fearow: 200-236 (142.8 - 168.5%) - guaranteed OHKO

 

Thank you for your attention

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1 minute ago, Lampone1 said:

UU Discussion [Kingler]

 

In this discussion I meant that Kingler has to be UU.
Since in its current tier NU is too strong Why?
Kingler is able to kill all Nu walls of OHKO and 2 OHKO.

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Muk: 120-142 (56.6 - 66.9%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery


252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 94-112 (59.8 - 71.3%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Superpower Vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Kecleon: 298-352 (178.4 - 210.7%) - guaranteed OHKO


252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 109-130 (69.4 - 82.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Grumpig: 160-190 (85.5 - 101.6%) - 12.5% chance to OHKO


252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solrock: 204-242 (115.2 - 136.7%) - guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mantine: 190-224 (110.4 - 130.2%) - guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Claydol: 194-230 (116.1 - 137.7%) - guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 146-174 (82.4 - 98.3%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Claydol: 180-212 (107.7 - 126.9%) - guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Superpower Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 174-206 (80.1 - 94.9%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Superpower Vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Wigglytuff: 280-330 (113.3 - 133.6%) - guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Swalot: 114-135 (55 - 65.2%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer Vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 102-120 (80.3 - 94.4%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With this we can observe that kingler is too strong in the UN tier.
In addition to this it could ague shocks of physical sweepers NU due to their
High defenses.

252 Atk Choice Band Fearow Double-Edge Vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingler: 108-127 (83 - 97.6%) - guaranteed 2HKO

Enduring the double edge could top off a fearrow with rock slide

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Fearow: 200-236 (142.8 - 168.5%) - guaranteed OHKO

 

Thank you for your attention

Well this should be on the NU discussion thread, not the UU discussion thread, since it's an NU pokemon. 

 

Also those calcs are fairly meaningless. You didn't include any of the counters to kingler such as bellossom, tangela, and poliwrath. You also listed mostly things that are weak to water, which are fairly meaningless.

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4 minutes ago, BurntZebra said:

Well this should be on the NU discussion thread, not the UU discussion thread, since it's an NU pokemon. 

 

Also those calcs are fairly meaningless. You didn't include any of the counters to kingler such as bellossom, tangela, and poliwrath. You also listed mostly things that are weak to water, which are fairly meaningless.

Obviously it will be weak to the only 2 physical walls type plant that there is in the tier ... that as first, besides these, that other physical walls you know that you can face kingler? The most used in the tier have already been named and we can even include these 2 plants that you named ... the difference remains of many pokes against 2 that are not among the ''10 most used in nu' '.
As for polywrath does not look much in its wall format, although it is the most commonly used in subpuncher.
The thread is fine. Since my request is to be uploaded to that tier

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5 minutes ago, Lampone1 said:

Obviously it will be weak to the only 2 physical walls type plant that there is in the tier ... that as first, besides these, that other physical walls you know that you can face kingler? The most used in the tier have already been named and we can even include these 2 plants that you named ... the difference remains of many pokes against 2 that are not among the ''10 most used in nu' '.
As for polywrath does not look much in its wall format, although it is the most commonly used in subpuncher.
The thread is fine. Since my request is to be uploaded to that tier

Did you read anything what he just said?

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Just now, Argorok2017 said:

So why was Vaporeon brought back down when it was banned for it ability at stall + op groht set? l mean complaining it can be easily handled, i'm just curious

Maybe because it was already milotic that is op

 

E017EtO.png

 

Edited by Lampone1
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42 minutes ago, Lampone1 said:

Maybe because it was already milotic that is op

 

E017EtO.png

 

They wouldnt drop a pokemon down because another pokemon is op........

 

Anyways, I know that Vaporeon's usage was way down in OU but I thought it was banned to OU from UU last time for reasons of it being unhealthy for the meta. @gbwead @BurntZebra @DaftCoolio can any of you confirm why?

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1 minute ago, Argorok2017 said:

They wouldnt drop a pokemon down because another pokemon is op........

 

Anyways, I know that Vaporeon's usage was way down in OU but I thought it was banned to OU from UU last time for reasons of it being unhealthy for the meta. @gbwead @BurntZebra @DaftCoolio can any of you confirm why?

What is curious is also golem UU with the amount
Of water types that are in the tier no?

 

E017EtO.png

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17 minutes ago, Argorok2017 said:

They wouldnt drop a pokemon down because another pokemon is op........

 

Anyways, I know that Vaporeon's usage was way down in OU but I thought it was banned to OU from UU last time for reasons of it being unhealthy for the meta. @gbwead @BurntZebra @DaftCoolio can any of you confirm why?

When we got life orb, choice specs, scarf, we essentially did a tier reset so all UU/NU bans were erased that happened previously. Most of the stuff that had been banned before in UU got banned again, due to life orb only helping them out more, but stuff like miltank and vaporeon that were previously banned, are no longer banworthy due to the power shift of pokemon in UU. 

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24 minutes ago, BurntZebra said:

When we got life orb, choice specs, scarf, we essentially did a tier reset so all UU/NU bans were erased that happened previously. Most of the stuff that had been banned before in UU got banned again, due to life orb only helping them out more, but stuff like miltank and vaporeon that were previously banned, are no longer banworthy due to the power shift of pokemon in UU. 

ah ok, thank you Zebra

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39 minutes ago, Lampone1 said:

What is curious is also golem UU with the amount
Of water types that are in the tier no?

Can't completely tell what you're saying but i'm assuming you mean why have Golem in UU with all the water types in UU. If a poke is broken in one tier but not very good in another you wouldn't leave it in the tier where it is to strong just because it wouldn't do well in the other tier. With that logic you could argue that Tyranitar could come back to OU because we have fighting types.

Edited by epicdavenport
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1 minute ago, epicdavenport said:

Can't completely tell what you're saying but i'm assuming you mean why have Golem in UU with all the water types in UU. If a poke is broken in one tier but not very good in another you wouldn't leave it in the tier where it is to strong just because it wouldn't do well in the other tier. With that logic you could argue that Tyranitar could come back to OU because we have fighting types.

If I was saying that and you're right I did not think it that way

 

E017EtO.png

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok, I know this is going to sound hilarious, but after watching the UU Community Combat today, I have a proposal that we open a discussion thread for a potential test ban of Miltank

 

Like Kangaskhan, Miltank is a safe switch to a number of threats throughout UU and like Snorlax it sports the dreaded Curse + Body Slam combo that was broken in OU. Unlike Snorlax though, Miltank can outspeed the most of the highly used threats even after one Curse, making it a formidable wall breaker. It can also support itself with Heal Bell + Milk Drink or simply by using Rest. Thick Fat adds to its incredible potential, negating Ice-type and Fire-type attacks.

 

Simply put, if Kangaskhan was banned for being unhealthy, it only makes sense that Miltank follows suit. It was stated that when Kangaskhan was banned, players would be forced to "balance their special wall with the particular needs of their team". Unfortunately with Miltank's rise in usage, this is no longer the case. From January to February, I fully expect Miltank to be one of the most highly used Pokemon in UU. 

 

tl;dr Suspect Ban Miltank

 

 

For prior discussion, here is a link showing that Miltank was once banned from UU to BL: 

 

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