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OU Tier Discussion Request Thread


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Ehh... Agree with Kaynine and Kiz on Meganium, like Kay said just a better version of Bello.

As for Typhlosion, I don't really think it will fit into OU, I mean we got Charizard and Blaziken which pretty much do a better job at what Typhlosion potentially could be able to do.

But Fereligatr, I'm sure should be OU, it's going to be one hell of a sweeper with DD.

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2 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

Agree with Kiz. Meganium is pretty much a slightly better version of Bello with aroma. I doubt it's going to be any use to UU with plume/exeg.

 

I'm hyped for that 

It would be the best Crawdaunt counter available no?

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22 minutes ago, gbwead said:

It would be the best Crawdaunt counter available no?

Well I think it might be something like NU, where we had lapras, walrein and Poli, all very good but they had to fight for the water spot in the team. I just don't think it would be worth using over the Exegs/Plumes when you can use something like Scizor that would probably slot in better.

 

We'll have to see I guess.

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Call me crazy but.....

 

I would send them all to NU until they either get higher tier usage or become broken, which however is highly unlikely.

 

Meganium is easy NU. Nothing worth use over Plume, it's mostly Bellossom 1.1 which can learn screens. Typhlosion.. Is it any better than Ninetales? I don't think it is and Ninetales is like... B+ rank NU throughout its time in NU. Gatr is the most scary with its DD set but the base stat spread is kinda meh and coverage is lacking a lot. Not sure if it is even better than Kingler. Slow DDers suffer in scarf meta anyways. If it enjoys UU usage then let it become one but I see no reason for even Gatr to become insta UU.

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1 hour ago, OrangeManiac said:

Call me crazy but.....

 

I would send them all to NU until they either get higher tier usage or become broken, which however is highly unlikely.

 

Meganium is easy NU. Nothing worth use over Plume, it's mostly Bellossom 1.1 which can learn screens. Typhlosion.. Is it any better than Ninetales? I don't think it is and Ninetales is like... B+ rank NU throughout its time in NU. Gatr is the most scary with its DD set but the base stat spread is kinda meh and coverage is lacking a lot. Not sure if it is even better than Kingler. Slow DDers suffer in scarf meta anyways. If it enjoys UU usage then let it become one but I see no reason for even Gatr to become insta UU.

Agree on Meganium, Typhlosion is stronger than Ninetales and can even make use of it's average atk stat for any counters due to it's physical movepool. However more importantly has access to Eruption. A specs eruption hurts just about anything, I think Grumpig may be the only one capable of taking that hit in NU. Gatr although weaker than Kingler obviously outshines it due to access to set up and a much larger variety of moves

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2 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

Gatr although weaker than Kingler obviously outshines it due to access to set up and a much larger variety of moves

Yea access to ice punch is what sets gatr aside from kingler imo. Likely too strong for UU as well

Edited by DaftCoolio
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DD isn't even the only concern on Fera. We don't have sheer force, so sdance would be a more fearful choice of moves. Can be a decent wallbreaker, seeing how it seriously does have a decent bulk, and water is always a great typing. Can tank enough hits from most walls, and at +2, like it or not, it's gonna dent something. Maybe not complete OU material, but not NU for sure

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7 minutes ago, pachima said:

Wait, first you said he is not complete material for OU. 

Gyarados is OU.

Now you complain him not weaker than gyarados.

Rip Logic.

No, just our asinine statement that it's JUST a weaker gyarados. Albeit their roles are similar, it isn't a weaker gyarados in any way. Just because I said it isn't complete ou material, doesn't mean it can't wipe half the tier with the proper play. 

 

Incase it wasn't obvious, fera has better typing, an offensive movepool that's bigger than gyara's, meaning it can do it's job if played right. But cute, you think every BL mon is automatically worse than everything in OU.

H-hey forf isn't zard BL? It sucks :]

Edited by Spaintakula
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1 minute ago, Spaintakula said:

No, just our asinine statement that it's JUST a weaker gyarados. Albeit their roles are similar, it isn't a weaker gyarados in any way. Just because I said it isn't complete ou material, doesn't mean it can't wipe half the tier with the proper play. 

I can sweep OU with agility+ sd kingler yet it isn OU. Useless argument over there. Now, if gyara is solid OU and their roles are similar, if fera isnt weaker than gyara, than is also solid OU. You are making no sense.

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2 hours ago, pachima said:

I can sweep OU with agility+ sd kingler yet it isn OU. Useless argument over there. Now, if gyara is solid OU and their roles are similar, if fera isnt weaker than gyara, than is also solid OU. You are making no sense.

Too many ifs and words that aren't said properly. And I'm the one not making sense.

 

On 8/20/2016 at 2:16 PM, Spaintakula said:

Can be a decent wallbreaker, seeing how it seriously does have a decent bulk, and water is always a great typing. Can tank enough hits from most walls, and at +2, like it or not, it's gonna dent something.

^What part of that said that it isn't good in OU? Do you have problems understanding, or what?

There is no argument about lower tier mons being able to fare well in OU too, all I said was that it's a very bad attempt to explain feraligatr as a weaker gyarados. Do you also think kingler is a weaker gyarados or something? Not a good way to approach ranking mons if you just go by that logic. 

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Meganium

Spoiler

Definietly not a OU material. UU, yes, for sure. I think it might be one of the most heavily used UU pokes- it's comparable to Vileplume in there, but Meganium stops Crawdaunt much better than Plume due to it's superior bulk, has tools against Tentacruel (EQ) and it's faster. It might also serve pretty well as a Scizor check, also has access to Aromatherapy. Stops Donphan cold as much as Exegg does and does not require BP to get Leech Seed. Might suffer from 4mss though.


Typhlosion

Spoiler

I've been using Typhlosion on showdown just a tiny bit (I don't really enjoy RU) so I kinda feel how carefully you have to play with it. When you look at it, the movepool and base stats, you can say it's completly outclassed by Charizard who has a much bigger movepool both physical and special wise and lack of EQ weakness which makes him being able to switch on scarf/ cb locked EQs and does not take damage from Spikes. Typhlosion's niche is it's access to 2 moves that Charizard does not have: Low Kick and Eruption. As for OU, Typhlosion will still have a lot of checks (more than Zard- Arcanine probably stops it cold completly), but it's access to Low Kick might seriously help against Snorlax which is it's really biggest concern. Thunderpunch helps with Gyarados and STAB Eruption will make every Snorlax think twice before picking immunity as it's ability:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 136 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 127-150 (50.3 - 59.5%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Where I really see Typhlosion's chance to shine, is actually doubles and that's only thanks to Eruption. Even Dragons and Blastoise will get really badly damaged by that STAB Eruption and I feel like this might be it's tier.
I can't see Typhlosion being UU though. Even a @!#$% Slowking can get 2hkod by that monster:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking: 85-101 (42 - 50%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after 2 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
 
 
Feraligatr
Spoiler

Ask me what you wanna know about it and I will tell you.

Feraligatr is like, a water-type Charizard: incredible movepool, really solid base stats and typing to back it up as well.

SD Set is by far the most threatening imo and this set is the reason why Feral in OU can get used more than Gyara:

+2 252 Atk Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cloyster: 38-45 (24.2 - 28.6%) -- 97.8% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Feraligatr Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cloyster: 112-134 (71.3 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Cloyster Hidden Power Electric vs. 4 HP / 36 SpD Feraligatr: 52-62 (32.2 - 38.5%) -- 93.4% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 108-128 (53.4 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 180-214 (107.7 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 36 SpD Feraligatr: 102-120 (63.3 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
(I didn't include orb just to show how strong it can be without it- I was running orb on my Feral but it was Sheer Force, here Lum berry might be as good as orb)

 

Feraligatr doesn't have many defensive switch ins and it's only solid offensive one is a Gyarados and that's only if Feral does not carry Rock Slide. Thanks to it's really good bulk it can sometimes afford to setup more than just one SD.

As for CB and DD, it's outclassed completly by Gyarados.

It can go mixed with Orb as well, thing is, Feral will always have it's surefire counters- mainly grass types, unless it's running icepunch (though Ludicolo doesn't care).

I can see it being used in OU but not much, and if it will, then probably only SD set.

Just food for thoughts after analyzing the meta, I feel like it was a tiny bit easier for me because I was using both Typhlosion and Feral on showdown (plus, Feraligatr is my most favourite pokemon ever and my ign originates from an aligator too), but we all know showdown =/= PokeMMO. Who knows, maybe I'll be right?

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Aight DoubleJ to the hypothetical rescue (or just start some asinine argument per the usual). 

 

After the UU Summer Series is over, we should test the following:

 

Feraligatr (BL) 

- The croc has immense power and an extremely broad movepool. With access to Sub + DD/Swords Dance, it is actually a really reliable Flail user when paired with a Torrent boosted STAB Waterfall for perfect coverage. It can also make use of DD/SD + Ice Punch and EQ for coverage on the entire tier along with Waterfall as well. All in all, it's an amazing pokemon offensively and it has good wallbreaking speed to boot. So why OU? Well in OU, Weezing walls it cold and that's a good thing. You'd have to have the balls to run Facade to actually beat Weezing who can still carry Thunderbolt and 2HKO a non-bulk croc 50% of the time. Even +2 200BP Flail can't one shot Weezing. So considering that Weezing is one of our most popular physical walls in OU that stops Gyara, Hera, and most other physical sweepers, Feraligatr would fit nicely in a tier that it wouldn't absolutely shred.

- In UU, the croc meets worthy adversaries in Vileplume and Exeggutor, but sadly both really don't like a +1 Ice Punch with Life Orb which is an easy 2HKO and maybe even 1HKO with a full layer of Spikes. The other physical walls in Quagsire and Nidoqueen are mere set up bait for Feraligatr as it is 3HKO'd by EQ from both and can strike back with boosts or Sub + Flail. Feraligatr's physical bulk allows it to set up a Substitute against CB Scizor Quick Attack with little investment. There just isn't enough defensive presence to hold Feraligatr back in UU, sorry fam. 

 

Typhlosion (UU)

- Typhlosion should at least be tested in UU. It has the exact same stats as Charizard, but lacks Flying typing for a ground-resist and a broader move pool. With access to Choice Specs Eruption and incredible speed, the flaming porcupine can shred through most pokemon with little ease. Pair that with HP Grass, Flamethrower (for that low health STAB), and Extrasensory or EQ to hit Tentacruel and you have a prediction monster. Unfortunately though, Typhlosion realistically only runs this set or a mixed Life Orb, which means it's highly predictable when in play. Does it have late game sweeping power? Certainly, but we have faster threats in UU to make short work of it, namely Swellow with Pursuit. We can also drop Flareon on it and apologize later, but in my opinion a Specs user in UU might be just what we need to help the meta continue to grow and develop. Please test. 

 

Meganium (NU)

- With better defensive stats than both Vileplume and Exegg you might wonder why it wouldn't be used in UU. Well, in all honesty it should be, but its lack of a secondary typing hurts it more than you know. It's susceptible to Superpower Hitmonlee (doesn't resist) and lacks a secondary STAB to spam alongside Giga Drain. It might make for a wonderful addition to stall, but on a balanced team it really lacks substance. 

- NU on the other hand really suffers from a lack of a good cleric and Meganium might fill that role quite well. It could also provide a solid answer to Kingler who would be forced to spam Double-Edge for recoil damage just a bit more in a tier with a viable Ghost (Missdreavus) and viable normal resists. Meganium also has enough special bulk to stack up against the strong special attackers in the tier like Electabuzz. With Leech Seed, a strong Giga Drain, Synthesis, and Aromatherapy, you could find the perfect addition for a tier lacking this (sorry Bello). 

 

tl;dr Feraligatr to BL1, Typhlosion test in UU, and Meganium to NU; after that we can see what usage says by the next update. 

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