OU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[Rigamorty]

Snorlax is by no means an unstoppable force at this point, we simply lack things that do its job nearly as well so it seems the obvious choice. Ubers isn't like very overused or something, it's for shit that's overpowered 

 

also, try running milotic. You'll beg for that body slam to para. Marvel scale op 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Rigamorty

[LifeStyle]

8 minutes ago, Rigamorty said:

Snorlax is by no means an unstoppable force at this point, we simply lack things that do its job nearly as well so it seems the obvious choice. Ubers isn't like very overused or something, it's for shit that's overpowered 

 

also, try running milotic. You'll beg for that body slam to para. Marvel scale op 

But how can Milotic strike back at Snorlax? Doesn't facing one let you set up Curse on its face?

Actually, I forgot you can have Haze on it, but meh

Edited August 15, 2016 by LifeStyle

[RysPicz]

Hey TC... I heard there's a Snorlax discussion thread being prepared.

 

We are waiting.

[DarylDixon]

Plz back gengar OU :(

[Rigamorty]

14 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

But how can Milotic strike back at Snorlax? Doesn't facing one let you set up Curse on its face?

Actually, I forgot you can have Haze on it, but meh

Surf does okayish damage but yeah you basically end up stalling each other. But the idea is that with a marvel scale milo around your opponent may be less likely to spam body slam for fear of paralyzing the wrong Pokemon. Or you just eat it's body slams until it can't do it anymore. 

[DoubleJ]

27 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

Well I kinda had to set up on it since those were my last 2, I only took like 3-4 Body Slams in that match and 2 of them para'd Quag+Linoone

Idk man, I kinda feel like with Lax around you either run Dusclops/Sableye to avoid getting haxed to death, or you get haxed to death

 

Give me your oppinion tho DoubleJ, do you think having Snorlax on almost any team is a good thing for OU?

 

I think the argument you presented wasn't a valid one in regards to trying to discuss whether Snorlax is broken or not. You essentially risked paralysis on your win condition, which honestly is never a good thing. Whether that was Thunderbolt, Body Slam, Bounce, or Dragonbreath, it didn't really matter. Secondary effects on moves are a part of this game and thus so is hax. 

 

Now as for Snorlax, I personally love the creativity it has brought. While yes we do see Snorlax on roughly 50% of teams (I think), players have devised a number of different ways of handling it. From Rhydon to CB Gyarados to Destiny Bond Houndoom to Physical Ludicolo to simply WW Skarm, Snorlax itself has forced the meta to change and I like it. The changes in the meta have also given Snorlax a reason to default away from its broken Curse set and experiment with mixed sets, phaze sets with WW, and simple Pursuit sets. Considering this, Snorlax has lost its quintessential sweeping power, but it still remains an incredible tank which is something that hurts both walls and sweepers. We aren't used to tanks in PokeMMO and we always struggle with them, this is just historical. What we can do now though is continue to think of creative ways to remove Snorlax, since every pleb is using one, and taking advantage of it being removed from a match. Or simply using something that abuses the mere presence of Snorlax.  

[DarylDixon]

26 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

But how can Milotic strike back at Snorlax? Doesn't facing one let you set up Curse on its face?

Actually, I forgot you can have Haze on it, but meh

Trick Metagross/Kazam/Starmie/Medicham deal for fuck curselax

Edited August 15, 2016 by DarylDixon

[BurntZebra]

54 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

I think the argument you presented wasn't a valid one in regards to trying to discuss whether Snorlax is broken or not. You essentially risked paralysis on your win condition, which honestly is never a good thing. Whether that was Thunderbolt, Body Slam, Bounce, or Dragonbreath, it didn't really matter. Secondary effects on moves are a part of this game and thus so is hax. 

 

Now as for Snorlax, I personally love the creativity it has brought. While yes we do see Snorlax on roughly 50% of teams (I think), players have devised a number of different ways of handling it. From Rhydon to CB Gyarados to Destiny Bond Houndoom to Physical Ludicolo to simply WW Skarm, Snorlax itself has forced the meta to change and I like it. The changes in the meta have also given Snorlax a reason to default away from its broken Curse set and experiment with mixed sets, phaze sets with WW, and simple Pursuit sets. Considering this, Snorlax has lost its quintessential sweeping power, but it still remains an incredible tank which is something that hurts both walls and sweepers. We aren't used to tanks in PokeMMO and we always struggle with them, this is just historical. What we can do now though is continue to think of creative ways to remove Snorlax, since every pleb is using one, and taking advantage of it being removed from a match. Or simply using something that abuses the mere presence of Snorlax.  

We could bring back tyranitar too. We'd see all these creative sets like defensive hariyama, defensive machamp, defensive heracross, defensive donphan, defensive hitmontop, defensive breloom, defensive swampert, and maybe even defensive steelix! Now that's a creative and enjoyable meta game I'd like to see. Tyranitar sure does force the meta to change and I like it too. We might even see a few of these creative sets on the same team! Now that's some meta changes I can get behind. 

[KaynineXL]

3 minutes ago, BurntZebra said:

We could bring back tyranitar too. We'd see all these creative sets like defensive hariyama, defensive machamp, defensive heracross, defensive donphan, defensive hitmontop, defensive breloom, defensive swampert, and maybe even defensive steelix! Now that's a creative and enjoyable meta game I'd like to see. Tyranitar sure does force the meta to change and I like it too. We might even see a few of these creative sets on the same team! Now that's some meta changes I can get behind. 

Why would you give such a response though? There is a big difference in what JJ said to what you said. JJ's had viability to them, they could be very useful even when not fighting Snorlax.. The ones you gave were literally just "counters" to Ttar and pretty much nothing else outside of maybe swamp/lix.

 

You'd think TC would have more mature/less sarcastic members...

[BurntZebra]

Just now, KaynineXL said:

Why would you give such a response though? There is a big difference in what JJ said to what you said. JJ's had viability to them, they could be very useful even when not fighting Snorlax.. The ones you gave were literally just "counters" to Ttar and pretty much nothing else outside of maybe swamp/lix.

 

You'd think TC would have more mature/less sarcastic members...

I'm just giving a different perspective to it. Are you saying machamp, breloom, hariyama, swampert, heracross, and other fighting/ground pokemon are unviable? Wouldn't you want to see people running machamp or hariyama more often? I mean they are pretty good pokemon outside of beating tyranitar. 

 

People are definitely running counters to snorlax that are really only good for taking on snorlax. Haze milotic and dusclops have very limited use outside of hazing away curse boosts from snorlax. They'd both prefer running a different move in place of haze. Would people just happen to run 3-4 checks/counters to snorlax on the same team if snorlax wasn't around? 

 

My post was only sarcastic to emphasize the point he was trying to make. There's a fine line between something healthy in the meta that balances pokemon within the tier and something that is overly centralizing. Obviously I do not believe tyranitar would be a good fit in OU, even though there are counters to it as I mentioned in my post. My stance on snorlax is much less drastic, but I'm still not convinced that snorlax doesn't have a very centralizing impact on the OU tier as of now. 

[RysPicz]

2 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

Why would you give such a response though? There is a big difference in what JJ said to what you said. JJ's had viability to them, they could be very useful even when not fighting Snorlax.. The ones you gave were literally just "counters" to Ttar and pretty much nothing else outside of maybe swamp/lix.

 

You'd think TC would have more mature/less sarcastic members...

His response although sarcastic is perfectly on spot Kay.

1 minute ago, BurntZebra said:

We could bring back tyranitar too. We'd see all these creative sets like defensive hariyama, defensive machamp, defensive heracross, defensive donphan, defensive hitmontop, defensive breloom, defensive swampert, and maybe even defensive steelix! Now that's a creative and enjoyable meta game I'd like to see. Tyranitar sure does force the meta to change and I like it too. We might even see a few of these creative sets on the same team! Now that's some meta changes I can get behind. 

Zeb is right. Snorlax pushes the meta to a degree where it reminds me of... watch out, VGC16.

You gotta bring Lax. Then you bring a hard check for lax that can take any of it's attacks- Skarmory. Then you gotta take Starmie for spinning the spikes out because of Skarm. Then you have to bring something that can actually threaten Lax- Meta, Flygon or Heracross work fine. We could use like 2 more checks for Snorlax here and something for Heracross, hey let's take Rhydon and Weezing.

There you go- Lax, Skarm, Star, Meta or Hera or Flygon, Weezing, Rhydon. Probably the most common and one of most generic teams you can see. Those pokes are everywhere and they are there because of Snorlax.

Spoiler

To compare, in VGC you build your team this way usually:

You take Xerneas and Smeargle.

Then, you gotta take the Xerneas check. At least 2.

So you take Mega Kanga and Primal Groudon. You got your 2 legend slots filled. You need more Xerneas checks.

Talonflame works and along with Mega Kanga it helps with Smeargle.

Last slot is your amount of creativity!

There, your VGC16 team is ready.

OU leaves no place for innovation at all anymore because of Lax. I realise that Snorlax isn't offensive uber or defensive uber and only way it'd get the boot is that fucking uncomfortable "unhealthy" characteristic which is highly subjective, but facts are facts. Snorlax climbed the usage to the top in barely 2 months. A lot of players did not even have a Snorlax back then when it got unbanned (including myself).

Thing that I fear, is that Chansey will now completly replace Snorlax if it would get the iron boot of ghaey and we would have again a meta centralized around another fat mon.

[KaynineXL]

13 minutes ago, BurntZebra said:

I'm just giving a different perspective to it. Are you saying machamp, breloom, hariyama, swampert, heracross, and other fighting/ground pokemon are unviable? Wouldn't you want to see people running machamp or hariyama more often? I mean they are pretty good pokemon outside of beating tyranitar. 

 

People are definitely running counters to snorlax that are really only good for taking on snorlax. Haze milotic and dusclops have very limited use outside of hazing away curse boosts from snorlax. They'd both prefer running a different move in place of haze. Would people just happen to run 3-4 checks/counters to snorlax on the same team if snorlax wasn't around? 

 

My post was only sarcastic to emphasize the point he was trying to make. There's a fine line between something healthy in the meta that balances pokemon within the tier and something that is overly centralizing. Obviously I do not believe tyranitar would be a good fit in OU, even though there are counters to it as I mentioned in my post. My stance on snorlax is much less drastic, but I'm still not convinced that snorlax doesn't have a very centralizing impact on the OU tier as of now. 

I disagree with most you are saying.

 

Machamp, Breloom, Hariyama, Swampert, Heracross and other fighting/ground types are viable, of course.. but you said "bulky" on all of those which definitely makes them less viable. I wouldn't really care to see Machamp/Hariyama more viable.

 

Clops has much more use than just for lax, c'mon.. Everyone knows it's one of the best spin blockers we have in the tier, primarily used for while lax wasn't here, other than that it's great for those flail linoone's and normal/fighting immunity is nice while Gengar was gone. Well, yeh.. Haze Milotic is going to be for Snorlax, but it's not exactly used often for its stall tactics against lax.

 

And hey, I'm not saying Lax isn't unhealthy, I don't exactly think it's ubers either.. I just thought the sarcasm in your post was unnecessary because I feel like JJ has valid points. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by KaynineXL

[KaynineXL]

1 hour ago, RysPicz said:

His response although sarcastic is perfectly on spot Kay.

Zeb is right. Snorlax pushes the meta to a degree where it reminds me of... watch out, VGC16.

You gotta bring Lax. Then you bring a hard check for lax that can take any of it's attacks- Skarmory. Then you gotta take Starmie for spinning the spikes out because of Skarm. Then you have to bring something that can actually threaten Lax- Meta, Flygon or Heracross work fine. We could use like 2 more checks for Snorlax here and something for Heracross, hey let's take Rhydon and Weezing.

There you go- Lax, Skarm, Star, Meta or Hera or Flygon, Weezing, Rhydon. Probably the most common and one of most generic teams you can see. Those pokes are everywhere and they are there because of Snorlax.

  Reveal hidden contents

To compare, in VGC you build your team this way usually:

You take Xerneas and Smeargle.

Then, you gotta take the Xerneas check. At least 2.

So you take Mega Kanga and Primal Groudon. You got your 2 legend slots filled. You need more Xerneas checks.

Talonflame works and along with Mega Kanga it helps with Smeargle.

Last slot is your amount of creativity!

There, your VGC16 team is ready.

OU leaves no place for innovation at all anymore because of Lax. I realise that Snorlax isn't offensive uber or defensive uber and only way it'd get the boot is that fucking uncomfortable "unhealthy" characteristic which is highly subjective, but facts are facts. Snorlax climbed the usage to the top in barely 2 months. A lot of players did not even have a Snorlax back then when it got unbanned (including myself).

Thing that I fear, is that Chansey will now completly replace Snorlax if it would get the iron boot of ghaey and we would have again a meta centralized around another fat mon.

Not at all.

 

Yeh, you need something for lax.. just like you needed something for chansey.. just like you need something for... everything that's popular in the meta. That's just how the game works. You don't need starmie at all, I hate starmie and I think it's bad. If you're not using a spinner, you could use a team that doesn't allow your opponent to spike. In the 128 OU tourney I won, I didn't use a spinner once, yet there were always spikers against me, I just never let them setup and if they did, they would be punished.

 

Yeh I think your post isn't true at all. This "team building" you mentioned isn't correct or needed and there are other ways.

Edited August 16, 2016 by KaynineXL

[BurntZebra]

Just now, KaynineXL said:

I disagree with most you are saying.

 

Machamp, Breloom, Hariyama, Swampert, Heracross and other fighting/ground types are viable, of course.. but you said "bulky" on all of those which definitely makes them less viable. I wouldn't really care to see Machamp/Hariyama more viable.

 

Clops has much more use than just for lax, c'mon.. Everyone knows it's one of the best spin blockers we have in the tier, primarily used for while lax wasn't here, other than that it's great for those flail linoone's. Well, yeh.. Haze Milotic is going to be for Snorlax, but it's not exactly used often for its stall tactics against lax.

 

And hey, I'm not saying Lax isn't unhealthy, I don't exactly think it's ubers either.. I just thought the sarcasm in your post was unnecessary because I feel like JJ has valid points. 

Machamp+breloom+hariyama don't need defense invest to take on tyranitar so they still have offensive potential. I've seen defensive swampert work as a pretty reliable answer to metagross, non hp grass electric types, and can even take on gyarados too. Why wouldn't you care to see machamp and hariyama become more viable? Every pokemon should get a chance to rise to the occasion in OU.

 

I was specifically mentioning haze dusclops. Dusclops obviously has a few niches in the tier, but just like snorlax, the update as a whole hasn't been too friendly to it. It has a harder time taking on physical pokemon that are able to 2hko it now with life orb attacks. It has a harder time taking on special pokemon as choice specs and life orb allow dusclops to be 2hko'ed pretty easily. And modest starmie is quite popular now which makes dusclops a very unreliable spin blocker, especially if it's running defense evs to actually switch in on snorlax safely. It does spin block forretress+cloyster though, but it also lets them set up spikes since dusclops relies on seismic toss+will o wisp for damage. 

 

I did not intend for my post to be so offensive to people. I only posted it as a counter argument to JJ since his argument can really apply to anything if you look at the situation optimistically. 

[KaynineXL]

1 minute ago, BurntZebra said:

Machamp+breloom+hariyama don't need defense invest to take on tyranitar so they still have offensive potential. I've seen defensive swampert work as a pretty reliable answer to metagross, non hp grass electric types, and can even take on gyarados too. Why wouldn't you care to see machamp and hariyama become more viable? Every pokemon should get a chance to rise to the occasion in OU.

 

I was specifically mentioning haze dusclops. Dusclops obviously has a few niches in the tier, but just like snorlax, the update as a whole hasn't been too friendly to it. It has a harder time taking on physical pokemon that are able to 2hko it now with life orb attacks. It has a harder time taking on special pokemon as choice specs and life orb allow dusclops to be 2hko'ed pretty easily. And modest starmie is quite popular now which makes dusclops a very unreliable spin blocker, especially if it's running defense evs to actually switch in on snorlax safely. It does spin block forretress+cloyster though, but it also lets them set up spikes since dusclops relies on seismic toss+will o wisp for damage. 

 

I did not intend for my post to be so offensive to people. I only posted it as a counter argument to JJ since his argument can really apply to anything if you look at the situation optimistically. 

Well, if that's the way you feel, as if we've got plenty of answers for ttar, why is it banned?

 

And why are we comparing them? Ttar has way more offensive sweeping pressure than Snorlax. Let's not forget sandstorm would cripple sp attackers even more than they are with the fat blobs in the tier. I won't give you much more than this though, because at the end of the day, I'v not even seen Ttar in the MMO meta, I'v only seen it in showdown.

 

[Spaintakula]

30 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

I disagree with most you are saying.

 

Machamp, Breloom, Hariyama, Swampert, Heracross and other fighting/ground types are viable, of course.. but you said "bulky" on all of those which definitely makes them less viable. I wouldn't really care to see Machamp/Hariyama more viable.

 

Clops has much more use than just for lax, c'mon.. Everyone knows it's one of the best spin blockers we have in the tier, primarily used for while lax wasn't here, other than that it's great for those flail linoone's and normal/fighting immunity is nice while Gengar was gone. Well, yeh.. Haze Milotic is going to be for Snorlax, but it's not exactly used often for its stall tactics against lax.

 

And hey, I'm not saying Lax isn't unhealthy, I don't exactly think it's ubers either.. I just thought the sarcasm in your post was unnecessary because I feel like JJ has valid points. 

Full HP champ isn't less viable at all, for breloom, not in this game, but I've seen bulky variants for sure. Hariyama also would benefit from a full hp investment, as it's speed isn't really that impressionable and not a must to fill in. Swampert, also, is better used if bulky, so yeah. Heracross would be the only exception

[KaynineXL]

10 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

Full HP champ isn't less viable at all, for breloom, not in this game, but I've seen bulky variants for sure. Hariyama also would benefit from a full hp investment, as it's speed isn't really that impressionable and not a must to fill in. Swampert, also, is better used if bulky, so yeah. Heracross would be the only exception

Lol, champ in itself isn't that viable, we don't need to bring bulk into it. There are simply better fighting types.

 

No point in you saying you've seen bulky variants work, but "not in this game" because we're playing PokeMMO, not showdown. We don't have toxic orb and poison heal sustain to increase the effectiveness of the bulk. If you look at the PokeMMO meta, every single one of the Brelooms I see are pretty much max speed, it says a lot to how viable the bulky ones are.

 

Who cares about Hariyama anyway, it's like the worse fighting type in OU.

 

About Swampert, well I beg to differ. I'm not saying fast Swamperts are better because I myself even like bulk on mine, but I know a lot of others that go max speed and the set does have merit to it so your statement isn't exactly true.

[Rigamorty]

All I'm getting from this is that we should unban tyranitar 

[Spaintakula]

44 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

Lol, champ in itself isn't that viable, we don't need to bring bulk into it. There are simply better fighting types.

 

No point in you saying you've seen bulky variants work, but "not in this game" because we're playing PokeMMO, not showdown. We don't have toxic orb and poison heal sustain to increase the effectiveness of the bulk. If you look at the PokeMMO meta, every single one of the Brelooms I see are pretty much max speed, it says a lot to how viable the bulky ones are.

 

Who cares about Hariyama anyway, it's like the worse fighting type in OU.

 

About Swampert, well I beg to differ. I'm not saying fast Swamperts are better because I myself even like bulk on mine, but I know a lot of others that go max speed and the set does have merit to it so your statement isn't exactly true.

It is actually true, because I said it's usually better, not that offensive/max speed whatever swampert is bad. Just like you said with machamp/hariyama, I'll use the same argument here and say "there are better pokes to fill that offensive role you mentioned swampert in". Which shouldn't be the case at all, some people just don't run the most abused shit, and that's good. True, champ/hariyama aren't that viable, mostly because the meta doesn't allow them to, that's all. People ran a goddamn trapinch just to stop a chansey, are you gonna count that as viable?

[KaynineXL]

56 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

It is actually true, because I said it's usually better, not that offensive/max speed whatever swampert is bad. Just like you said with machamp/hariyama, I'll use the same argument here and say "there are better pokes to fill that offensive role you mentioned swampert in". Which shouldn't be the case at all, some people just don't run the most abused shit, and that's good. True, champ/hariyama aren't that viable, mostly because the meta doesn't allow them to, that's all. People ran a goddamn trapinch just to stop a chansey, are you gonna count that as viable?

Hmm, sorry but you are wrong lol.

 

Firstly, you didn't say "usually better", you said " Swampert, also, is better used if bulky, so yeah.". Secondly, there is no Pokemon that fills the role Swampert plays better than Swampert. Swampert is a great offensive water type Pokemon which has great resists and is one of the true good Metagross switches. I remember especially when Lax wasn't here, Metagross was popular and Swampert was used quite a lot as the elec immunity + meta switch, although Flygon was used more for the elec immunity + speed.

 

You just can't use that argument with Swampert. Truth be told... There isn't many Pokemon like Swampert, we'd have to look at things like Quagsire and Whiscash for that. The fighting types of the other hand only have little differences between each other and can replace one another in doing the same role.

[Spaintakula]

17 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

Hmm, sorry but you are wrong lol.

 

Firstly, you didn't say "usually better", you said " Swampert, also, is better used if bulky, so yeah.". Secondly, there is no Pokemon that fills the role Swampert plays better than Swampert. Swampert is a great offensive water type Pokemon which has great resists and is one of the true good Metagross switches. I remember especially when Lax wasn't here, Metagross was popular and Swampert was used quite a lot as the elec immunity + meta switch, although Flygon was used more for the elec immunity + speed.

 

You just can't use that argument with Swampert. Truth be told... There isn't many Pokemon like Swampert, we'd have to look at things like Quagsire and Whiscash for that. The fighting types of the other hand only have little differences between each other and can replace one another in doing the same role.

So first you say fast swamperts aren't better, but when I say bulky is better, you still go and say I'm wrong? Make up your mind, in no way are the two equal either, so that's not an option. And just because it checks one pokemon, it doesn't make it a god and better than everything. Hp grass variants destroy it, band versions deal damage that swampert can't recover since it lacks a recovery move. It certainly isn't the best and only way to deal with metagross. Also, please don't use sentences where you say an offensive poke is good offensive if it can check metagross. Make up your mind, it can't do offense and tank metagross's hits at the same time, you either invest bulky or you invest offensive.

 

But hey, at the end of the day my blissey does everything because it's bulky, its a cleric, it heals and it sweeps cuz can setup

[KaynineXL]

26 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

So first you say fast swamperts aren't better, but when I say bulky is better, you still go and say I'm wrong? Make up your mind, in no way are the two equal either, so that's not an option. And just because it checks one pokemon, it doesn't make it a god and better than everything. Hp grass variants destroy it, band versions deal damage that swampert can't recover since it lacks a recovery move. It certainly isn't the best and only way to deal with metagross. Also, please don't use sentences where you say an offensive poke is good offensive if it can check metagross. Make up your mind, it can't do offense and tank metagross's hits at the same time, you either invest bulky or you invest offensive.

 

But hey, at the end of the day my blissey does everything because it's bulky, its a cleric, it heals and it sweeps cuz can setup

?? 

 

I never said which Swampert is better lol, I said I like bulky more, but speed is definitely good and situational. When I say bulky... I mean fast enough for Weez, 252 atk, rest hp and with a CB lol. Swampert as an offensive choice bander is a Metagross switch lol... It can do both... tank Metagross and be offensive.

 

Do you even play PokeMMO lol?

Edited August 16, 2016 by KaynineXL

[Spaintakula]

17 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

?? 

 

I never said which Swampert is better lol, I said I like bulky more, but speed is definitely good and situational. When I say bulky... I mean fast enough for Weez, 252 atk, rest hp and with a CB lol. Swampert as an offensive choice bander is a Metagross switch lol... It can do both... tank Metagross and be offensive.

 

Do you even play PokeMMO lol?

Fine, 252 atk, some speed investment, rest in hp, here you go

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 151-178 (40.7 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 202-238 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

^What part of that shows swampert can easily handle metagross and still be offensive?? Please explain, because apparantly you play pokemmo and know everything, and I don't even play :]

[KaynineXL]

Just now, Spaintakula said:

Fine, 252 atk, some speed investment, rest in hp, here you go

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 151-178 (40.7 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 202-238 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

^What part of that shows swampert can easily handle metagross and still be offensive?? Please explain, because apparantly you play pokemmo and know everything, and I don't even play :]

Oh wait, I forgot everyone uses banded metas these days. 

 

Keep trying.

[Spaintakula]

22 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

Oh wait, I forgot everyone uses banded metas these days. 

 

Keep trying.

Lol, that's a nice argument right there, "it isn't even used anymore"

Well, for one, I literally use one whenever I play, and yes, I do actually play.

Also, if you're gonna argue about swampert safely switching on a metagross, you actually need to take in account every probable outcame that doesn't sound insane, and last time I checked, bandmeta sounds quite normal, surely even morons can get it. 

But, just to please you; Life orb metagrosses aren't all that better for swampert either. mmash still deals minimum 30 to 40%, and you better hope your swampert is 100% healthy and metagross doesn't get a +1 from mmash. Go on tho, or are you gonna say LO meta isn't used either?