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OU Tier Discussion Request Thread


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so i talked to darkshade a bit about this already and he informed me that the level 1-49 ban in tournament mode is there specifically to sudo ban the endeavor sandstorm gimmick. if you do not know what this is check out this

 

in pokemmo you need to set up sandstorm which only last 5 turns, somehow switch to aron without him taking any damage, and your opponent cant have any ground, rock, or steel types for this to work. further more if they have a way to stall out the sand like sub/protect/sub... or sleep move, or a - priority damaging move, ect they can defeat this strategy. 

now question time. what are your thoughts? should this be allowed/not allowed? 

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3 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

so i talked to darkshade a bit about this already and he informed me that the level 1-49 ban in tournament mode is there specifically to sudo ban the endeavor sandstorm gimmick. if you do not know what this is check out this

 

in pokemmo you need to set up sandstorm which only last 5 turns, somehow switch to aron without him taking any damage, and your opponent cant have any ground, rock, or steel types for this to work. further more if they have a way to stall out the sand like sub/protect/sub... or sleep move, or a - priority damaging move, ect they can defeat this strategy. 

now question time. what are your thoughts? should this be allowed/not allowed? 

Ofc, this should be allowed. In singles, it is super easy to counter this considering ttar is banned. In PokeMMO, PvP is also at level 50, so endeavor is not as effective. I remember once doing endeavor with my aron against a midlife Manectric and I did not get back to full health.

Edited by gbwead
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Maybe not much of a discussion request, more like my thoughts about current OU meta- I promised I'll give some feedback on the Chansey decision ;)

 

First of all, Fire Blast spam is everywhere- I started using my good old Charizard once again, jesus christ this thing is lethal. Orbed Fire Blast can 2hko (or straight ohko) half of the tier, after taking some damage and getting into Blaze range it's able to 2shot it's so called "counters" (such as Miltank which I tend to see more often now). I can also see rain teams being really successful, generally tier has flourished into much more offensive, fast paced one. I'm pretty bad in OU but I seriously started enjoying the tier (and I'm 6-2 this week wooooooo), and most importantly, the amount of pokes I see! I started to see people using Miltank, Cradily, Cloyster, Exeggutor, Vaporeon to state a few, became much more popular. Everyone is adapting currently to the meta and although it seems chaotic I see an insane amount of unique teambuilds and sets.

 

Second thing I'd like to write about is Golem. I swear to everyone, this thing is monstrous. Even with a common rock resist (Flygon) it is still able to consistently deal massive damage over time with it's STAB Rock Blast, while plowing through the rest of the tier with it's STAB EQ and coverage Superpower + Thunder/ fire punch or allahuakbar. I believe that it's gonna get a massive spike in usage, if not because of others, then most defo because of me- Golem lead in OU is as powerful as lead in UU. And it's a fantastic wallbreaker when you think that most of defensive walls are outspeed by a Jolly Golem.

 

So as for now, imo, meta is on the stage of adapting, but it became much more offensive, both physical and special wise. I can't believe how many pokes and strategies were locked by Chansey and how now players who actually make good plays are rewarded for them. Fights do not last for 1h+ anymore, although I'd love to see some more OU tournaments along with the next usage stats table. Tier doesn't seem dominated by a single force anymore.

 

 

Relevant meme at the very end:

 

745d733ea54baf7cafc50a1dd2240650.png

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 well, in theory, walls now have more tools too... withouth chansey status are strong and wall´s attacks can actually do damage.

 Arca is very versatile with life orb, it hits really hard with overheat and can 2 hit ko kazam with e.speed. It doesnt really need leftovers since it can heal itself. With crunch it can even be a problem for starmie and toxic is good enough against milotic... with hp rock it could be solid against solarbeam teams

 Even withouth life orb, now walls´ attacks can be game changing wich means that you actually have to predict what to do against that slowbro or porygon since you cant just send chansey to nullify every move and every play done by a wall (except spikes obviusly)

 In my experience the last is really happening but naturaly I wonder how the defensive cores gonna envolve now that there are more posibilities for both walls and sweepers

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  • 4 weeks later...

you guys know what you are doing, but i read the chansey thread and why it was finally banned i feel like it's stupid sorry.

"special attackers don't dominate on the new meta" i see in 99.9% of the games magnetons,venusaurs,kazams,espeons,jolteons etc.
i like the varity of teams and pokes you guys can make it's a fun meta but not competitive as it used to be.

the real reason for this ban was chansey makes you use certain pokes to beat her, but it's the samething in this meta run doom/arcanine/milotic/tentacruel to not get sweep from typloshion's eruption and it's the same way with other pokes everyone is running the same shit.

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2 minutes ago, Takens said:

you guys know what you are doing, but i read the chansey thread and why it was finally banned i feel like it's stupid sorry.

"special attackers don't dominate on the new meta" i see in 99.9% of the games magnetons,venusaurs,kazams,espeons,jolteons etc.
i like the varity of teams and pokes you guys can make it's a fun meta but not competitive as it used to be.

the real reason for this ban was chansey makes you use certain pokes to beat her, but it's the samething in this meta run doom/arcanine/milotic/tentacruel to not get sweep from typloshion's eruption and it's the same way with other pokes everyone is running the same shit.

Typhlosion usage was at 7.81% last month, so that puts it below magneton, tauros, breloom, sceptile, and slowbro. 

 

Magneton was at 8.76%. Alakazam was at 14.01%. Espeon was at 4.33%. Jolteon was at 18.34%. Venusaur was at 28.36%. 

 

Special attacker usage isn't at some ungodly amount now, at least not what you're making it out to be.

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2 hours ago, Takens said:

"special attackers don't dominate on the new meta" i see in 99.9% of the games magnetons,venusaurs,kazams,espeons,jolteons etc.
i like the varity of teams and pokes you guys can make it's a fun meta but not competitive as it used to be.


so, you are saying that the meta is worse now because there is more varity and special sweepers are actually being used?

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6 hours ago, LuisPocho said:

 


so, you are saying that the meta is worse now because there is more varity and special sweepers are actually being used?

Boy you really need to learn how to read. what i said is that i think there's a contradiction on that post. I mean is not a big of a deal having no Chansey, neither way good players are still going to be good.

#GITGUD

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So now I feel it is time that I paid a small visit on this page.

I think that the sheer over usage of Chansey over centralized the tier around itself.

It created problems for all those special sweepers, every single one it countered them.f

we all know it damn straight  stops them all and its a single pokemon..... a single pokemon with high hp and a godly ability that counters tons and tons of pokemon in the game and its easily abused and exploited consistently. Turns fun matches and tournaments into long boring slow turn after turn of nothing exciting but slow eventual chansey fainting on once side.
I think some of the worst times I have seen this in action was when I watched a 1 hour 20 minutes end battle slap back of two pp maxed chansey. I don't think I could handle playing this game if that happened to me often. If using chansey I ended up in a stall fight against it both users having no chansey. I would rather run something to exploit chansey than to use chansey.....  

 

That pokemon offered just a little bit..... no no a fat amount of coverage to literally every special attack in game. It made other pokemon useless while it lived because it was a prevalent cleric mon that boasts the ability both to status and and tank an attack and not to mention the end game chansey special sweeper endurance fights. People would hide chansey until end game and then if possible sweep down your special sweepers last with it.

Basically having that poke in the hand allowed you to make obsolete any special attacking pokemon, and honestly any pokemon that is dependent on status or stall just like chansey.

Umbreon is getting a lot more use now and I imagine that even wish vape will get more use also.

 That is just Simply unbalanced + unhealthy if you look at it from that perspective,  atleast that is what I THINK.

Fact of the matter is that its easier to teambuild when you can put a pokemon with such High hp and coverage capacity and amazing resists to all forms of special attacks. 

It covers the place of two special defensive walls which you are now forced to creatively think up and use.

Subbing chansey takes about 80% of the difficulty out of building a team with the least special defense  weakness because you can't just throw it on and know you can cover 3/4 of the threats in game.

 

Now a little optimistic advocation on my part.... 

I think its crystal clear to see the  positive side to having Chansey gone is actually really a good thing for the meta as a whole in OU.

For example, having no chansey means that pokemon which where pretty much made useless by its presence, are actually a formidable force or now semi viable as before they where completely obsolete if chansey had even half hp......

Chansey I felt offered the ability to build a team easily because you don't have to creatively think about how to cover a special defensive weakness accurately you can just lazily throw fat chansey in that slot and let its fat take hits.

On a side note....

The other thing I love to see is that matches aren't lasting an hour plus now, just because of people abusing the broken mechanics of chansey being able to wall any special attack.

The overall analysis I can give, because I have observed it thoroughly, is that the Meta is thriving and becoming vastly different than it was, not to mention its very much more diverse now in terms of teams you see.

It doesn't feel so stale as it was before. 

I absolutely love having this pokemon in uber tier and love the options given to players because of its ban.

I fully support it being gone and I feel that it should have been a while back with Snorlax.

These pokemon outclass everything in the OU tier truly just like the other pokemon in the UBER TIER.

They give an extreme advantage and it becomes unfair for you if you aren't carrying them yourself.

It almost forces you to build a team against them or to build a team on it with them.

My cut and dry response to anyone who is upset about chansey ban, well you should work on building a team that can evenly take damage from special attacks and physical attacks and truly give thought to that compilation.

I feel like normal type spdef walls with high hp stat offer to much coverage in a meta that hasn't truly yet advanced yet fairly counter them in a consistent pattern that doesn't get stale. 

IMO I used to do many different things to kill chansey. I am glad to say that i'm able to put the pokemon I used to counter chansey  back to use in other ways It took a while and I realized just how much emphasis you have to put on the chansey threat when team building..... Stuck me like lightning with that thought too...... >now that its gone and it feels really good. 
 

@Takens I'm not going to let you just lie to yourself and everyone else, its not the same things as chansey. There is a huge variety of pokemon being used now that where not useful due to both chansey's high hp and its natural cure which was easily abused in combination with its heal bell which is now run on umbreons, which yes Ill give you are also more common along with the pokemon you listed but they aren't stale to use like chansey was. The usage they are getting is understandable because they are a very big threat in this meta. However none of them seem to insist upon themselves being such a big threat that you have to build a team of 2 mons just to cover one single pokemon choice. I remember carrying a mixed attacker just to kill chansey. Since then the ban the pokemon I have to say are getting less use the ones I would run mixed.

Its freed up more offensive play styles and given the players in the competitive community a sense of thrill and excitement knowing they wont get walled completely by one tool that almost everyone abused. It was not a healthy competitive scene when chansey sat in OU. Specifically because of the ways that its abused to wall off special sweepers. For example Jolteon and espeon and alakazam being completely walled by chansey, so much to the point they would usually carry trick to counter it. Well that sucked. Who wants to put trick on a pokemon just to counter a single threat you have to sacrifice a huge part of a build or role that pokemon will play. Banded special sweeper holding band I'm so glad I don't have to do that to chansey lately. Its miserable honestly to think about sacking something or sacrificing a mon to status just to kill trick chansey, and also it puts a limitation on the class that pokemon can pull and item it can use. At one time I had an identical pokemon one with and one with trick during the chansey meta and it would serve its purpose ever 2 games i would swap out the counter for chansey into another one for it to remain unpredictable in some way shape or form. 

Now having said all that. I'm pretty sure we are all crystal clear this meta is full of healthy competition, excitement, and seriously tough competitive battles, which are now slow and stale but surprising suspenseful and more often than not rather fast pace.

<3

Edited by Hotarubi
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33 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

So now I feel it is time that I paid a small visit on this page.

I think that the sheer over usage of Chansey over centralized the tier around itself.

It created problems for all those pokemon you are seeing and Infact you know it damn straight that it  stops them all and its a single pokemon..... a single pokemon with high hp and a godly ability that counters tons and tons of pokemon in the game. 

 

 That is just Simply unbalanced + unhealthy if you look at it from that perspective,  atleast that is what I THINK.

Fact of the matter is that its easier to teambuild when you can put a pokemon with such High hp and coverage capacity and amazing resists to all forms of special attacks. 

It covers the place of two special defensive walls which you are now forced to creatively think up and use.

Subbing chansey takes about 80% of the difficulty out of building a team with the least special defense  weakness because you can't just throw it on and know you can cover 3/4 of the threats in game.

 

Now a little optimistic advocation on my part.... 

I think its crystal clear to see the  positive side to having Chansey gone is actually really a good thing for the meta as a whole in OU.

For example, having no chansey means that pokemon which where pretty much made useless by its presence, are actually a formidable force or now semi viable as before they where completely obsolete if chansey had even half hp......

Chansey I felt offered the ability to build a team easily because you don't have to creatively think about how to cover a special defensive weakness accurately you can just lazily throw fat chansey in that slot and let its fat take hits.

On a side note....

The other thing I love to see is that matches aren't lasting an hour plus now, just because of people abusing the broken mechanics of chansey being able to wall any special attack.

The overall analysis I can give, because I have observed it thoroughly, is that the Meta is thriving and becoming vastly different than it was, not to mention its very much more diverse now in terms of teams you see.

It doesn't feel so stale as it was before. 

I absolutely love having this pokemon in uber tier and love the options given to players because of its ban.

I fully support it being gone and I feel that it should have been a while back with Snorlax.

These pokemon outclass everything in the OU tier truly just like the other pokemon in the UBER TIER.

They give an extreme advantage and it becomes unfair for you if you aren't carrying them yourself.

It almost forces you to build a team against them or to build a team on it with them.

My cut and dry response to anyone who is upset about chansey ban, well you should work on building a team that can evenly take damage from special attacks and physical attacks and truly give thought to that compilation.

I feel like normal type spdef walls with high hp stat offer to much coverage in a meta that hasn't truly yet advanced yet fairly counter them in a consistent pattern that doesn't get stale. 

IMO I used to do many different things to kill chansey. I am glad to say that i'm able to put the pokemon I used to counter chansey  back to use in other ways It took a while and I realized just how much emphasis you have to put on the chansey threat when team building..... Stuck me like lightning with that thought too...... >now that its gone and it feels really good. 
 

@Takens I'm not going to let you just lie to yourself and everyone else, its not the same things as chansey. There is a huge variety of pokemon being used now that where not useful due to both chansey's high hp and its natural cure which was easily abused in combination with its heal bell which is now run on umbreons, which yes Ill give you are also more common along with the pokemon you listed but they aren't stale to use like chansey was. The usage they are getting is understandable because they are a very big threat in this meta. However none of them seem to insist upon themselves being such a big threat that you have to build a team of 2 mons just to cover one single pokemon choice. I remember carrying a mixed attacker just to kill chansey. Since then the ban the pokemon I have to say are getting less use the ones I would run mixed.

Its freed up more offensive play styles and given the players in the competitive community a sense of thrill and excitement knowing they wont get walled completely by one tool that almost everyone abused. It was not a healthy competitive scene when chansey sat in OU. Specifically because of the ways that its abused to wall off special sweepers. For example Jolteon and espeon and alakazam being completely walled by chansey, so much to the point they would usually carry trick to counter it. Well that sucked. Who wants to put trick on a pokemon just to counter a single threat you have to sacrifice a huge part of a build or role that pokemon will play. Banded special sweeper holding band I'm so glad I don't have to do that to chansey lately. Its miserable honestly to think about sacking something or sacrificing a mon to status just to kill trick chansey, and also it puts a limitation on the class that pokemon can pull and item it can use. At one time I had an identical pokemon one with and one with trick during the chansey meta and it would serve its purpose ever 2 games i would swap out the counter for chansey into another one for it to remain unpredictable in some way shape or form. 

Now having said all that. I'm pretty sure we are all crystal clear this meta is full of healthy competition, excitement, and seriously tough competitive battles, which are now slow and stale but surprising suspenseful and more often than not rather fast pace.

<3

No u

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29 minutes ago, Takens said:

idk at this point i don't really care about what happens to the tiers lol

I will probably always care about this game as long as it remains an active online wholesome pokemon RPG and it stands where it does with pallet town in Kanto. That was just part of me being a kid and I love this game for it.

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12 hours ago, Takens said:

you guys know what you are doing, but i read the chansey thread and why it was finally banned i feel like it's stupid sorry.

"special attackers don't dominate on the new meta" i see in 99.9% of the games magnetons,venusaurs,kazams,espeons,jolteons etc.
i like the varity of teams and pokes you guys can make it's a fun meta but not competitive as it used to be.

the real reason for this ban was chansey makes you use certain pokes to beat her, but it's the samething in this meta run doom/arcanine/milotic/tentacruel to not get sweep from typloshion's eruption and it's the same way with other pokes everyone is running the same shit.

Those Pokemon used to be around before Chansey got banned too, the thing is people were expecting them to pull easy sweeps the moment Chansey got banned, but that wasn't the case. That's the difference between usage and domination.

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2 hours ago, suigin said:

Those Pokemon used to be around before Chansey got banned too, the thing is people were expecting them to pull easy sweeps the moment Chansey got banned, but that wasn't the case. That's the difference between usage and domination.

That's probably the best response i got so far thanks.

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1 minute ago, Takens said:

That's probably the best response i got so far thanks.

He only just told you a truth about the OU history. Chansey has been in n out and so has snorlax. Lets see how this pans ou this time and keep a close eye on the details. I feel refreshed watching it to be honest. I never know exactly what IM going to see.

 

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Love how people who were bad in OU with Chansey in it are the same people who are bad in OU with Chansey gone.

I guess it's easier to cry that your Jolteon gets walled by Chansey, instead of finding ways to lure and beat Chansey with something else so that it clears a path for said Jolteon to sweep/clean.

Man fuckin Weezing just keeps walling my scarf Heracross, that thing is so unhealthy pls ban :(

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11 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

Love how people who were bad in OU with Chansey in it are the same people who are bad in OU with Chansey gone.

I guess it's easier to cry that your Jolteon gets walled by Chansey, instead of finding ways to lure and beat Chansey with something else so that it clears a path for said Jolteon to sweep/clean.


use only physical sweepers > "finding ways to lure and beat chansey with something else so that it clears a path for said jolteon"

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On 4/7/2017 at 8:14 AM, LifeStyle said:

Love how people who were bad in OU with Chansey in it are the same people who are bad in OU with Chansey gone.

I guess it's easier to cry that your Jolteon gets walled by Chansey, instead of finding ways to lure and beat Chansey with something else so that it clears a path for said Jolteon to sweep/clean.

Man fuckin Weezing just keeps walling my scarf Heracross, that thing is so unhealthy pls ban :(

 

cmoooon lets be fair... It walls my cb hera too.

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