OU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[DaftCoolio]

10 minutes ago, Moetal said:

What if it knows you have mirror coat and haze? What if it growth on your mirror coat turn and giga you on your haze turn?

Sucks to suck

[gbwead]

27 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

Run mirror coat for the easiest gg of your life

I don't get it.

[pachima]

33 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I don't get it.

Even I got it. Smh.

[Kizhaz]

Run offensive Milo with ice beam

[Moetal]

1 hour ago, Kizhaz said:

Run offensive Milo with ice beam

Can't beat giga.

[Kizhaz]

45 minutes ago, Moetal said:

Can't beat giga.

Maybe so, but it's not a free switch in/set up for venu. The lesser known sets can often be the best choices

[Rigamorty]

42 minutes ago, Moetal said:

Can't beat giga.

252+ SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 96-114 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

And Milotic has higher base speed, so in your "venusaur switches in on milotic" scenario, it could get hit by ice beam, then get KO'd by the next one because Milotic is faster. Granted this will pretty much never happen because lol offensive milotic, but saying "okay so a hard counter comes in on your thing, what do you do to regain momentum?" is a good question, and the answer lies in prediction, the rest of your team, and how much of your team your opponent has seen. One of the things about Venusaur is, the way its coverage works, most of the time you've got like a 2/3 chance of switching in on it correctly, because while say something like milo gets hit hard by giga drain, it's tickled by sludge bomb and hp fire. Same goes for switching in shit like Metagross, Flygon, Skarmory, Arcanine, etc kinda just went down usage and named things. But yeah, point being, when you're predicting a move from Venusaur, you've got the advantage on attacking moves, and that's not even regarding the fact that Venusaur is going to want to use Growth at some point.

Also what in the world would venu be suspected for? Offensive Uber? Seems like a super far stretch given the fact that it's pretty slow for a sweeper, requires set up, and is outclassed by other set up sweepers in the tier when it comes to the "you're fucked if it sets up" factor. 

[Moetal]

2 hours ago, Moetal said:

Can't beat Riga.

Or can I? @Rigamorty

 

252+ SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Venusaur: 74-88 (39.5 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 72-86 (42.1 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Overgrow Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 104-126 (60.8 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Two scenarios -

1. No Growth

Switch into Ice Beam, 78-88 dmg (99 HP left at max roll)

Turn 2 Eat second Ice beam, 78-88 dmg (11 HP left at max roll, overgrow range, trigger Salac berry).

Turn 2 Venusaur uses Giga Drain, 104-126 dmg (Milotic with 67 HP left after minimum roll)

Turn 3 Venusaur uses Giga Drain first, since it has Salac, 104-126 dmg (dead Milotic)

 

2. Growth

Switch into Ice Beam, 78-88 dmg (99 HP left at max roll)

Turn 2 Eat second Ice beam, 78-88 dmg (11 HP left at max roll, overgrow range, trigger Salac berry). Venusaur use Growth this turn.

Turn 2 +1 0 SpA Overgrow Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 158-188 (92.3 - 109.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (heals Venusaur 79 hp minimum, bringing it to at least 90 hp, enough to tank another max roll Ice Beam) 

Turn 3 You should know the answer.

[Rigamorty]

Did you ignore the rest of the post where I say that it's stupid to actually try to beat venu with milo because venu exists like mostly because it counters milo 

[Gunthug]

These ultra specific turn by turn scenarios are completely unhelpful. How does venusaur's presence in the meta influence your teambuilding? Is it too good not to use? What playstyles does it make overpowered/render obsolete and why? 

[RysPicz]

Renders stall unusable. Why?

You can't toxic it.

It's base stats enable it to set up growth on a huge portion of metagame, while giga drain heals the sustained damage.

 

I will write more when I will not be on my phone

[Moetal]

32 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

These ultra specific turn by turn scenarios are completely unhelpful. How does venusaur's presence in the meta influence your teambuilding? Is it too good not to use? What playstyles does it make overpowered/render obsolete and why? 

It is naturally bulky, has instantaneous recovery through synthesis, sustained healing with giga drain, versatility as a wall breaker with growth/overgrow/leech seed/sleep powder. With Milotics to take out fire and flying types, the two can wall a large number of Pokemon in the OU tier. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Moetal

[HowLXG]

1 hour ago, Moetal said:

It is naturally bulky, has instantaneous recovery through synthesis, sustained healing with giga drain, versatility as a wall breaker with growth/overgrow/leech seed/sleep powder. With Milotics to take out fire and flying types, the two can wall a large number of Pokemon in the OU tier. 

If we're talking about 2 Pokemon that can wall a large number of Pokemon in the OU tier, let's talk about Umbreon and Weezing.

 

Anyways, even though I agree Venusaur is a top tier OU mon (and testing it wouldn't hurt), I don't necessarily think it should be banned for the reasons you mentioned above

[Jordzi]

5 hours ago, Rigamorty said:

 Mill gets hit hard by giga drain, it's tickled by sludge bomb and hp fire. 

Also what in the world would venu be suspected for? Offensive Uber? Seems like a super far stretch given the fact that it's pretty slow for a sweeper, requires set up, and is outclassed by other set up sweepers in the tier when it comes to the "you're fucked if it sets up" factor. 

Milo hates sludge bomb. Yeh the damage isn't too bad on calm sets but poison cripples her pretty hard regardless. If you run bold then the damage is pretty sizeable too. Sludge definitely isn't a free switch for her. 

 

My brief two cents: Venu is really good, but I can't see it as an uber. We can't just ban everything at the top of the usage stats. It's just a really good Pokemon. Choice Hera puts him away, Specs Zam, Blaiz, Aero...the list goes on. I know these aren't ez switches into Venu but it's not an unstoppable force. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Jordzi

[pachima]

Salac berry calm venusaur. Ok

[razimove]

run a mean lock, curse, pain split, disable/sub/wow haunter, problem solved, just use something out of the box, are you restricted to play with what other people play? Guys, the game is not only about those 45 OUs, although this can also be done with dusclops, even if you don't outspeed, it's somewhat safer since he's bulkier.

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by redspawn

[Spaintakula]

5 hours ago, Jordzi said:

Milo hates sludge bomb. Yeh the damage isn't too bad on calm sets but poison cripples her pretty hard regardless. If you run bold then the damage is pretty sizeable too. Sludge definitely isn't a free switch for her. 

 

My brief two cents: Venu is really good, but I can't see it as an uber. We can't just ban everything at the top of the usage stats. It's just a really good Pokemon. Choice Hera puts him away, Specs Zam, Blaiz, Aero...the list goes on. I know these aren't ez switches into Venu but it's not an unstoppable force. 

Except getting hit by sludge bomb's poison isn't a bad scenario for Milo?

Better than getting toxic'd and losing double the health every turn, instead, you get a fixed amount of health lost because it's level 1 poisoning. All it does is deny her leftovers tick for the spdef boost she's gonna oh so helpfully need. I haven't played this shit in ages, but I'm pretty sure that stayed the same.

[londark]

1 minute ago, Spaintakula said:

Except getting hit by sludge bomb's poison isn't a bad scenario for Milo?

Better than getting toxic'd and losing double the health every turn, instead, you get a fixed amount of health lost because it's level 1 poisoning. All it does is deny her leftovers tick for the spdef boost she's gonna oh so helpfully need. I haven't played this shit in ages, but I'm pretty sure that stayed the same.

nah

[Spaintakula]

1 minute ago, londark said:

nah

oh right, def boost.

Still not bad anyways

[Jordzi]

4 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

Except getting hit by sludge bomb's poison isn't a bad scenario for Milo?

Better than getting toxic'd and losing double the health every turn, instead, you get a fixed amount of health lost because it's level 1 poisoning. All it does is deny her leftovers tick for the spdef boost she's gonna oh so helpfully need. I haven't played this shit in ages, but I'm pretty sure that stayed the same.

My bad, forgot about poison difference! Regardless though, she doesn't stand up well against Venu. 

[Maelstrom]

Seems like Venusaur usage droped a bit.

[ISpeakWithTheTrue]

Ban Venusaur plz I try playing forretress, umbreon, milotic all at once but this thing beats all of them :(((

[gbwead]

6 minutes ago, ISpeakWithTheTrue said:

Ban Venusaur plz I try playing forretress, umbreon, milotic all at once but this thing beats all of them :(((

I can't tell if your post is sarcastic or not, but to me that looks more like a reason to not ban venusaur.

[ISpeakWithTheTrue]

Just now, gbwead said:

I can't tell if your post is sarcastic or not, but to me that looks more like a reason to not ban venusaur.

Yes ban pls I bring Arcanine against it and these uguu just switch it out of flameThrower :((

[DrButler]

3 minutes ago, ISpeakWithTheTrue said:

Ban Venusaur plz I try playing forretress, umbreon, milotic all at once but this thing beats all of them :(((

So do other set up mons actually.

 

____

 

Whats giving me a headache is how to reliably cover the possible HP Ele Venusaur without devoting half of the team to it since it beats cro as well.