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OU Tier Discussion Request Thread


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2 hours ago, Coge said:

ya snorlax cant do any damage

Im not saying that snorlax or chansey do low damage, Im talking about how all the other walls are just a bait for chansey/snorlax (so you the will hardly kill something when those are around)

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2 hours ago, codylramey said:

How do i see usage? I dont see it pinned. Also i like the tier the way it is. I dont have to worry about my wall breakers having to 2hko a +1 lax while being able to take multiple bslams and not care about para.

Usage should be posted here soon. We discussed it during our tier council TS meeting yesterday and made some decisions regarding it - now we'really just ironing out the kinks in all the writeups and should have them out to you guys today or tomorrow 

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48 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said:

if your main concern is aero, then swampert, slowbro, vaporeon, milotic, quagsire can do a great job walling it
I'd pick slowbro tbh 

I think with Milo being used so often is one of the reason aero is used a fair bit nowadays. Milo without status isn't quite as bulky physically as a lot of the other physical walls(although it makes up for it in sp def), so it's quite scary to come in on aero, especially with spikes down. Even with status such as twave, flinch/para can be harsh.

 

Quagsire is probably the best, Slowbro also pretty good. Vapo + Weezing really do need to be healthy, they're not as solid as the other two.

 

Doesn't really matter for some of the squishier stuff though as long as you have a fairly healthy Swampert/Metagross/Rhydon in your team, you should be fine

Edited by KaynineXL
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It really depends on the variety of aero. CB you need to predict well and usually a strong scarf mon can check it. This is the only aero that can really break walls and usually depends on multiple right predictions and maybe hax to do so. Scarf aero is significantly weaker than the CB counterpart but cant be outsped. Bulky waters usually can wall it tho. Lifeorb is interesting because bulky pokemon can only kind of wall it and it doesnt need to rely on prediction as much. But life orb does take its toll on aero so any bad predicts on his part is free damage and its still not as powerful as CB is. It is also checked by a power scarf mon especially with a se move.

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On 12/10/2016 at 1:41 AM, gbwead said:

   Usage with Snorlax                                                 Usage without Snorlax

1db8f91effc27a81086d895fb1eb0194.png                         5d779dfa19753a5eb4b63d9432a2bb70.png

6eabc6f6ceedefc0f01a79e450a5b0a5.png                         47b46b561781d2d4f3f58566f940a1a8.png

8 pokemons over 25% usage                                                         5 pokemons over 25% usage

7 pokemons between 15% and 25% usage                                   8 pokemons between 15% and 25% usage

35 OU by usage pokemons (above the 4.36% cut-off point)        37 OU by usage pokemons (above the 4.36% cut-off point)


Based on the fact that, ever since the snorlax ban, there is less pokemons over 25% usage, more pokemons between 15%-25% usage and more arguably viable OU pokemons in the tier, I think it is fair to say that the Laxless meta is more open to creativity than the Lax meta. 

 

However, when it comes to comparing the level of centralisation of each metagame, it is difficult to claim anything with certainty giving the number of subjective variables to take into consideration. Prior to the Snorlax test ban, Snorlax was everyone's focus when teambuilding and playing. Following the Snorlax, Chansey and Venusaur, two pokemons heavily countered by Snorlax, have now become the main focus of centralisation imo. These 2 meta are centralised in very different ways, so it is not evident which is better regarding the level of centralisation.

 

Something that could perhaps be useful for this centralisation comparison would be a centralisation index. Economist use centralisation indexes, like the Herfindahl index, to evaluate how a market is defined by the big players of that market. Basically, this index is defined as the sum of the squares of the market shares of the firms of a specific market. The higher the result, the more centralised the market. If we consider each pokemon as a firm and the raw usage of these pokemons as the market share of firms, we could theorically come up with our own way to compare mathematically the level of centralisation of each meta by looking directly at the usage distribution.

 

For the month of September, I calced an index value of 304+. For the month of October, I calced an index value of 319+. For the month of November (when Lax was ban), I calced an index value of 315. In theory, the higher the index value, the more centralised the meta. This means that the Lax meta was more centralising than the Laxless meta, but not by much. Obviously, centralisation is not all about numbers, but I just though these index values could give some perspective to the people that make claims about how centralising one meta can be compared to another. 

 

Is there anything more recent?

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1 minute ago, gbwead said:

The tier update should be either today or tomorrow. The new usage table will most likely be posted at that time.

I haven't been paying much attention to OU decisions over the past month, but will the decision on Snorlax come to a conclusion today or tomorrow, if it hasn't already?

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