OU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[Murcielago]

4 hours ago, LifeStyle said:

I agree with everything Murcielago says.

Snorlax is bad, if you think Snorlax is OP then u bad, someone already said here 1 low kick Sneasel =  bam c u Snorlax, so why u bad plebs not running more Sneasel? Answer is cuz u bad. Also about the TC members not playing this game, they do but they bad, just look at dat Coolio guy, saw him lose to a Scizor in OU the other day, so bad, Riga who, Arimanius can't even wall a belly Azu pls. Gunt just lurks on showdown, MMO =/= Showdown, Zebra always playing on alts cuz scared of the almighty Hotarubi. Dat gbweed guy always taking pics with his RNG friends or something instead of playing this game, smh. Tyrone busier giving people WPs (oh wait).

So anyways, I think Murcielago should become TC member, I like his ideas to make PokeMMO great again.

#BringLaxBack #WeNeedWalls

Good evening, I'm MurcielagoSV and I endorse this message.

 

#makepokemmogreatagain

[Murcielago]

This new "meta" seems to favor blind and random teams.  Blindly mixing sweepers and wall breakers onto a team seems to do quite well... so much for "creativity" "diversity" or "skill"

Edited November 28, 2016 by Murcielago

[gbwead]

3 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

This new "meta" seems to favor blind and random teams.  Blindly mixing sweepers and wall breakers onto a team seems to do quite well... so much for "creativity" "diversity" or "skill"

If someone chooses to blindly teambuild, that is their right, but it doesn't make teambuilding pointless for people that wish to increase their match up odds against any given opponent. As for diversity and skill, there is no questionning in my mind that duels take place in a more competitive environment.

 

I am worried about about the boredom aspect of some duels, but then I remember that Milotic vs Snorlax exciting face off and I quickly choose to look forward rather than backwards. I don't think unbanning Snorlax would be wise since the expressed concerns about the current meta pale in comparison to how problematic Snorlax was.

[Murcielago]

I guess... this new meta seems to be all about gimmicks and luck moreso than solid team building and gameplay.  Personally I feel snorlax solved more problems than it created... also allowed for more balanced and strategic gameplay as compared to what ever you want to call whats going on now.

 

Line up 6 sweepers with typings that compliment each other and away we go.

[NikhilR]

Just now, Murcielago said:

Line up 6 sweepers with typings that compliment each other and away we go.

And why is this bad?

[aeeaeeaaa]

(Not trying to defend Murceliago)

 

Quote

And why is this bad?

Because the entire result of the match is decided by pokemons/teamcomp rather than the way you play them. It's basically throwing one pokemon after another in a run-down to the 6th and hope that at some point yours will do better than theirs.  I've tried playing a balanced team for a while, only to give up and assemble a quite offensive mess that perfomed much much better...

 

Although I wouldn't say this is what is happening in the meta right now, there's a part of truth in my opinion. Sweepers/wallbreakers come in hundreds of shapes or form in this game and they are often designed in such a way that scouting them costs you something (momentum, health, status), in the meantime, viable tanks come in relatively few numbers and they are terribly one-dimensionnal.

Snorlax was a versatile tank that helped keep offense in check and I can't find its versatility in the other tanks at our disposal. I'm not saying it's not broken or anything, just that it was, imo, one of the few if not the only proactive tanks here

 

 

Keep in mind I'm probably not as good as many of you, but I do watch replays and play vs some good players sometimes in normal, so I kind of see what you guys play and build

[Murcielago]

It is just catering to a lower level of playing.  Less mentally stimulating.

 

Think about checkers and chess for example.

 

Keeping snorlax around = you would rather play chess than checkers

Banning snorlax = you would rather play checkers

 

To be completly honest im more concerned with chain bans than anything else.

 

I doubt snorlax is coming back, this "test ban" is so onesided its a joke (at least from the outside looking in). Of course there is going to be more diversity for the first month... people are going to be experimenting with a bunch of different stuff.

 

And to be completly honest, the decision to ban snorlax was a knee jerk reaction.  Running snorlax was getting to the point of almost becoming a liability (because everyone was team building for it)  All we needed to do was sit back and let the game take its course... and lax usage would have decreased... sure it woulds till be high... but we had more diversity than ever before.

 

I am incredibly skeptical that long term this play to ban snorlax will result in anything but more grind.  new patterns will emerge, players will copy, we will more than likely have a similar usage distribution (or worse, we only have so many sweepers to choose from) than before.

 

At the end of the day this is a good thing for me though. 

 More boring and sopuguuric mmo = i spend less time on it = more time on other things.

 

 

 

[NikhilR]

2 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

It is just catering to a lower level of playing.  Less mentally stimulating.

Then what was mentally stimulating about having Snorlax in the meta? Like what strategic gameplay did you find that happened in that meta and not now?

[gbwead]

3 minutes ago, aeeaeeaaa said:

Because the entire result of the match is decided by pokemons/teamcomp rather than the way you play them. It's basically throwing one pokemon after another in a run-down to the 6th and hope that at some point yours will do better than theirs.  I've tried playing a balanced team for a while, only to give up and assemble a quite offensive mess that perfomed much much better...

 

Although I wouldn't say this is what is happening in the meta right now, there's a part of truth in my opinion. Sweepers/wallbreakers come in hundreds of shapes or form in this game and they are often designed in such a way that scouting them costs you something (momentum, health, status), in the meantime, viable tanks come in relatively few numbers and they are terribly one-dimensionnal.

Snorlax was a versatile tank that helped keep offense in check and I can't find its versatility in the other tanks at our disposal. I'm not saying it's not broken or anything, just that it was, imo, one of the few if not the only proactive tanks here

 

 

Keep in mind I'm probably not as good as many of you, but I do watch replays and play vs some good players sometimes in normal, so I kind of see what you guys play and build

A new meta can truly be overwhelming in the begining, but I can assure you that teambuilding balance team is not pointless. I strongly recommend watching Walpayer's duels in matchmaking. He is one of the most influencial player in this game and his teams seem to become archetypes really fast that people try to replicate. I am not trying to say you should just copy what he does, but I think he can be a source of inspiration that might motivate you to find a viable team synergy of your own.

[Murcielago]

counters, check, predictions, switches, building a balanced team, using spikes, using spinners

 

as far as i can tell anyone who attempts to run a balanced team with walls is at a disadvantage because running a mixed bag or randomly chosen sweepers and wall breakers will beat them almost every time.

[aeeaeeaaa]

Well last time I met him he simply ground my wish Chansey  with a bunch of life orb  special pokemons, and I got beat up because I had wish chansey. If instead I had my softboiled Chansey I would have stalled the hell out of his 2 sweepers and probably won (even playing much worse than him)

 

To be honest what I got out of the duel was that your comps, the cards you play with, matter more than how you play them.

But I admit it's really early to jump to conclusions, and that my reading of the meta is probably flawed.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by aeeaeeaaa

[pachima]

Im honestly shocked by all this. Snorlax forces ppl to bring several checks cause of its huge movepool (crunch for dusclops, fblast for skarm, surf for rhydon and bslam for para in general)

Now ppl complain chansey forcing ppl to blind switch whn chansey has a plethora of moves. Let´s start:

 

Toxic

 

And...

 

Twave

 

And...

 

Oh no, thats it!

 

No wait... I though of one

 

NVM.

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by pachima
Spoiler rip

[KaynineXL]

Good players can usually win with a bad matchup, getting small advantages thought out rather than trying to get 1 mon to sweep - which is usually what I see Walpayer/Frags do. Having a well build team definitely gave you advantages and a more consistent win ratio, that doesn't mean hyper offense can't do that, if built correctly, it can work.

Edited November 28, 2016 by KaynineXL

[Murcielago]

@aeeaeeaaa

 

Don't worry about taking my side or not.  My position has more support than what meets the eye in this thread.  Majority of players don't even bother posting here because why bother? It is becoming apparent that the TC either doesn't take what is posted here into consideration, or they are unable to descern between the players who actually play the game and the kids who are plain bad complaining about non broken things.  Hell, half the TC doesn't even play this game...

 

The reason for this (i assume) is that they are afraid of offending someone on an established team...  I really don't care because A: I'm already on the best (in my opinion and what I personally am looking for) team on MMO, B: I really don't care what a bunch of people on the internet think of me, C: If I was so inclined I could simply make an alt and walk onto virtually any team in the game.

 

Your observations are on point too.

[NikhilR]

5 minutes ago, aeeaeeaaa said:

(Not trying to defend Murceliago)

 

Because the entire result of the match is decided by pokemons/teamcomp rather than the way you play them. It's basically throwing one pokemon after another in a run-down to the 6th and hope that at some point yours will do better than theirs.  I've tried playing a balanced team for a while, only to give up and assemble a quite offensive mess that perfomed much much better...

 

Although I wouldn't say this is what is happening in the meta right now, there's a part of truth in my opinion. Sweepers/wallbreakers come in hundreds of shapes or form in this game and they are often designed in such a way that scouting them costs you something (momentum, health, status), in the meantime, viable tanks come in relatively few numbers and they are terribly one-dimensionnal.

Snorlax was a versatile tank that helped keep offense in check and I can't find its versatility in the other tanks at our disposal. I'm not saying it's not broken or anything, just that it was, imo, one of the few if not the only proactive tanks here

 

 

Keep in mind I'm probably not as good as many of you, but I do watch replays and play vs some good players sometimes in normal, so I kind of see what you guys play and build

Sorry for double posting, I still don't know how to use these forums properly.

 

The entire match's result need not always be decided in your matchup, but the results can mostly be in your favor and it's kind of deserving because of how much effort you put into fixing the holes in your team. If there's a more thought process towards building an offensive team, then it's not going to be focused on just typings which complement each other, but finding ways to complement each partner by allowing yourself to set up on something else. For eg Heracross paired with Ursaring is good since the latter acts as a good wow absorber vs something like Weez. Metagross paired with Drum Zard is good since Forretress, which walls the physical meta set, is set up bait for Zard or forcing Flygon to lock itself into EQ can become incredibly punish-worthy. It's also about trying to maintain that momentum even after one of your pokes get revenge killed. 

 

With regards to teambuilding in the meta, I am not sure of what teams are exactly viable because teambuilding is usually an extremely time consuming process since it starts off with theory and then needs modification with practice. But from personal experience, I can definitely say that without Snorlax around, there is way less restriction. 

[pachima]

3 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

Hell, half the TC doesn't even play this game...

Man, if you change this whole line, you might have a point.

[aeeaeeaaa]

Quote

The entire match's result need not always be decided in your matchup

I'm not saying it is, I'm saying it's a little more decided by matchup now than it was in the Snorlax era imo

And my view is that of all the 6 biggest tanks out there being extremely one-dimensional is part of the reason why

[pachima]

3 minutes ago, aeeaeeaaa said:

I'm not saying it is, I'm saying it's a little more decided by matchup now than it was in the Snorlax era imo

And my view is that of all the 6 biggest tanks out there being extremely one-dimensional is part of the reason why

Thats because there was no matchups on snorlax era.

It was literally 5 mons + one pleb against another pleb joined with the same 5 mons.

[Murcielago]

^thats not even remotely true @pachima

[LuisPocho]

I really hate chansey, but, chansey meta has way more variety than snorlax meta

 Nobody brings 3 pokes to check chansey, and chansey is not the perfect partner for his own counters (skarmory to stop snorlax, starmie to stop skarmory, snorlax to stop starmie)

 I feel the variety of special sweepers is the same (mostly, starmie, jolteons and growth venu), but the pool of walls/tanks you can pick is definetively wider, so you really one or two walls and then go full offensive, or trapper, or antiwalls

  Still... ban chansey too!

Edited November 28, 2016 by LuisPocho

[pachima]

4 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

^thats not even remotely true @pachima

Yeah I kinda overstated it but I can guarantee you at least 3 mons were in the same team all the time.

[gbwead]

9 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

why bother? It is becoming apparent that the TC either doesn't take what is posted here into consideration, or they are unable to descern between the players who actually play the game and the kids who are plain bad complaining about non broken things.  Hell, half the TC doesn't even play this game...

We have feelin too, you know :/

 

The TC takes what is said on this thread very seriously tbh, but that doesn't mean we are not entitled to our own opinion too xD

[DoubleJ]

2 hours ago, gbwead said:

We have feelin too, you know :/

 

The TC takes what is said on this thread very seriously tbh, but that doesn't mean we are not entitled to our own opinion too xD

#biasedtiercouncil

[Erayne]

Lol people complaining because they have to think how to build a team

[DaftCoolio]

7 hours ago, pachima said:

Yeah I kinda overstated it but I can guarantee you at least 3 mons were in the same team all the time.

like can you not. no pokemon had 100% usage, why u do dis