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OU Tier Discussion Request Thread


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MILOTIC

X6q6du6.jpg 

 

 

Bio:

Milotic is an aquatic, serpentine Pokémon with a primarily cream-colored body. It has red eyes with long, pinkish antennae above them. Additionally, there are long, hair-like fins above its eyes, which begin thin and thicken towards the tips. These eyebrows extend to almost half of Milotic's body length, and will be longer on the female than the male. On top of its relatively small head is a straight spike. Running down either side of its neck are three black dots, similar to gills. Its lower body is a patterning of blue and pink, diamond-shaped scales outlined with black. The tail consists of four large, blue fins with pink ovals in their centers. Each of the tail fins overlaps the next slightly, causing it to resemble a fan. While it has not been depicted, Milotic's scales are said to change color depending on the viewing angle.

 

Type: Water

 

Abilities: Marvel Scale
Tier:
  • OU

   Hp:

95
 

Attack:

 

60

 

 

Defense:

79
 

  Sp. Atk:

 

100

 

 

Sp. Def:

125
 

Speed:

 

81

 

 

 

Overall this Pokemon is still viable and a strong way to wall off water attacks and even other special attacks depending on the nature.

It's move set and nature is subject to change from bold to calm if it wants to completely wall off special attackers  calm nature is also a viable thing.

Though it has its common checks, I have to say its more than just viable and I feel personally that it missed its chance to shine as a special wall due to the fact that Snorlax was already in it's place upon its implementation.

The implementation of this Pokemon made me very happy personally.

A much awaited arrival as prior to it being implemented the only way you could encounter it was the Hoenn elite 4  Champion Wallace.

 

Once again I don't see that its usage or purpose  was taken away from via Snorlax ban. 

It is still more than capable of walling and even damaging, or killing many Pokemon in your opponents possible arsenal.

it's move sets commonly include Recover which can habitually restore half hp and in general even stab super effective stab attacks won't OHKO 

this pokemon.

It can also run the move mirror coat in combination with its way better than average special defense not to mention it's got 540 points in total base stats & a wide range of other utility moves offering  a nice Surprise factor and the ability to be creative to its user.

 

Still viable, still beautiful <3 Milotic.

Edited by Hotarubi
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So what is the deal with this snorlax test ban? 

 

I ask because it seems to have no rhyme or reason... 1 month simply isnt enough time to rebuild and rebreed new teams...

 

In 4 months from now when we have more centralization and less diversity what will happen?   Will snorlax be considered to be unbanned?  Will the TC simply start to ban new pokemon?

 

What about things like rhydon, dusclops, milotic... once thier usage drops below 5%... will they be instant banned too? or will we be able to use these pokemon in UU?

 

Another thing... what % of the tier council even plays this game?

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8 hours ago, Murcielago said:

So what is the deal with this snorlax test ban? 

 

I ask because it seems to have no rhyme or reason... 1 month simply isnt enough time to rebuild and rebreed new teams...

 

In 4 months from now when we have more centralization and less diversity what will happen?   Will snorlax be considered to be unbanned?  Will the TC simply start to ban new pokemon

Yes pls, 4 months without Snorlax is a great idea. Or no Snorlax for like, until we get legendaries implemented and some other offensive powerhouses unbanned thanks to that.

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@OrangeManiac - Lets be real here, it is a very fair question to ask if the tier council even plays this game after the decision to  ban snorlax.  Elcoolio has admitted to playing and being in the ladder (I was already aware of that) but how many other tier council members actually play OU?  How many seats are on the tier council?  I would be willing to bet that less than 50% of them actually play OU.

 

I mean lets face the fact here... snorlax was banned because a bunch of crybabies are bad at this game.  The criteria for what classifies as uber was blatantly ignored, the fact that there was more variety of the tier was ignored as well.

 

@Tyrone  - Can you please explain to me how "test bans" work?  Because it should be a no brainer that after any pokemon is banned from a tier for the first month there will be more variety.  1 month simply isn't enough time to do a proper test.  If in 3-4 months from now it is apparent that there is less variety, and even more "cancerous" styles of play emerge what will be the next step?  

 

Also, can you please answer the following questions for me:

 

1: How many seats are on the tier council?

2: How many members of the tier council have been in the top 100 OU player leader board in the last 2 months and/or made it to the semi-finals of an OU official that had a shiney as the prize (no community combats) in the last 2 months.

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Just now, Murcielago said:

@OrangeManiac - Lets be real here, it is a very fair question to ask if the tier council even plays this game after the decision to  ban snorlax.  Elcoolio has admitted to playing and being in the ladder (I was already aware of that) but how many other tier council members actually play OU?  How many seats are on the tier council?  I would be willing to bet that less than 50% of them actually play OU.

 

I mean lets face the fact here... snorlax was banned because a bunch of crybabies are bad at this game.  The criteria for what classifies as uber was blatantly ignored, the fact that there was more variety of the tier was ignored as well.


There's a pinned thread to see who's in the council, if you can't recognize the names for having OU experience then you're really damn new at this game. I know I haven't always agreed the decisions lately but the last thing you can blame them is for lack of experience. I don't think the council has ever had this active players in seats since it was made in 2014.

 

What comes to Snorlax not meeting what classifies as Uber, I somewhat agree. It doesn't exactly fit in any of the criteria as they were meant to be. What comes to my stance on Snorlax, I've seen people free their team builds by a ton so for that reason I'm somewhat alright with the ban since what we're looking for is a exciting and diverse metagame. I just like consistency with things and Snorlax is kinda borderline on it but what we're looking for is a metagame people enjoy playing and I think we're one step closer to that than we were with Snorlax.

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@OrangeManiac - yeah but just wait until the new holes in the meta are exploited and there is less variety than before.  It will take time but I doubt that long term this will do anything than inject a bunch of additional grind into the game and overall reduce the game play experiance.  And thanks for the heads up about the pinned post with the tier council members in it.  At first glance it appears that I am correct in my assumption that less than 50% of them play ou.

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Looks like my assumption that the tier council doesn't even play OU was correct.

 

Only 3 of the eight members are on the leader board (gbweed, elcoolio, burntzebra) and only 1 of the members has made it to the semifinals of an official OU tournament in the available tourney history (artimisia)

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

Looks like my assumption that the tier council doesn't even play OU was correct.

 

Only 3 of the eight members are on the leader board (gbweed, elcoolio, burntzebra) and only 1 of the members has made it to the semifinals of an official OU tournament in the available tourney history (artimisia)

It's not a matter of winning tournaments nor playing ladder. Being good on ladder only means grinding it and being able to "beat the meta". It does absolutely not mean that you should be the one deciding about the meta. 

Otherwise, TC is composed of good players that have proven many times being able to compete in nearly every tiers :

 

Artemiseta :

2 appearances in the Hall of Fame in 2016

 

BurntZebra :

Well, i won't go further than : one of the best overall player of the server all tiers included. 9 appearances in the Hall of Fame in 2016.


Gbwead :

Same as Zebra. 7 appearances  in the Hall of Fame in 2016.


Robofiend :

Old player but active on showdown and knows well how tiering works.

 

Gunthug :

Only wins writting events... But still one of the best DPP players here. Knows how tiering works really well and is still active.

 

Arimanius :

Do I really need to argue on Ari? One of the best UU player

 

Rigamorty :

He's clearly better at tiering than PSL managing

 

Elcoolio :

He already screened

 

 

But then, if you think the TC doesn't have enough background. What's yours? 

 

E ; And yeah people wanted it banned cause they were bad. Amirite schuchty , xploz, forfiter . gbweak . .. ? You're bad ?

 

Edited by Guerinf
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9 minutes ago, Guerinf said:

But then, if you think the TC doesn't have enough background. What's yours? 

Don't talk like that to the one and only truthful heir to the god tier OU player throne in this game guerinf please. He has proved himself a lot of times on every single OU tournament that he is one of the top tier OU players, please show some respect. 

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Just now, BlackJovi said:

Don't talk like that to the one and only truthful heir to the god tier OU player throne in this game guerinf please. He has proved himself a lot of times on every single OU tournament that he is one of the top tier OU players, please show some respect. 

No irony here. I just wanted to know as he seems to feel more qualified. Maybe I only don't know his forum account ? 

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Attacking my ethos does nothing to counter my points, and if anything further solidifies that I am correct.

 

*Tiering policies were ignored in regards to the snorlax ban

*The TC doesn't even play the current OU metagame (prior to snorlax ban)

 

^If you don't find the above two facts to be alarming, I am not sure what to tell you.  We have a TC that ignores its own policies and doesn't even play the game that it is making decisions for.  Whether or not I am good at this game is irrelevant to the situation at hand.

 

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Smh at calling out the TC with the "Not playing the game" approach, it's a lose-lose situation. If they played the game then you'd say they were biased for making decisions that ultimately benefit their playstyle. If they don't play the game then you'd say they make decisions based on things they have no knowledge of. 

Edited by NikhilR
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2 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

Attacking my ethos does nothing to counter my points, and if anything further solidifies that I am correct.

 


yeah it does, you were implying that the council was not capable because they werent good at OU... then you, who is not a great famous player, simply cant come here and say that snorlax was banned because "a bunch of crybabies are bad at this game"

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11 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

Attacking my ethos does nothing to counter my points, and if anything further solidifies that I am correct.

 

*Tiering policies were ignored in regards to the snorlax ban

*The TC doesn't even play the current OU metagame (prior to snorlax ban)

 

^If you don't find the above two facts to be alarming, I am not sure what to tell you.  We have a TC that ignores its own policies and doesn't even play the game that it is making decisions for.  Whether or not I am good at this game is irrelevant to the situation at hand.

 

Let me defend the tier council for a minute (shocking, I know). Tiering policies were not broken or ignored regarding this ban. A one-month suspect test ban is the standard when it comes to dealing with potentially broken pokemon that don't fit perfectly into one ban category or another. Is a one-month suspect test too short? It very well may be, but unfortunately that's what we work with. Can the TC extend the suspect test? Certainly, and that's even written into tiering policy if they don't feel comfortable making a decision after just one cycle. 

 

In regards to TC not playing OU, well that is a valid criticism but I can say that the majority of the council today does in fact spectate OU tournaments and analyze the tier closely. Most of them even play. Do they do well? Maybe not, but that really doesn't matter in the long run. 

 

 

EDIT: And to defend this test-ban: Snorlax is truly a borderline uber. It's defensive characteristics, both SpDef and Def thanks to Curse, as well as its offensive power (110 base Attack with multiple powerful STABs) warrant discussion for Defensive and Offensive Uber. Its ability to support teams through walling special attackers, Pursuit trapping glass cannons, and paralyzing the opponent with Body Slam is also worth of discussion for a Support Uber. Is it actually an uber? Well in discussion and practice it really doesn't meet any criterion, but that's where this test ban comes in. We can now view how the meta changes (hopefully for the better) with Snorlax removed and thus we can analyze if we can ban it under an "unhealthy characteristic". 

 

Do some players uguu and moan because they can't beat Lax? Yes. Do some players genuinely feel Snorlax is broken? Yes. Is Lax actually a problem in this tier? Who knows, but we're trying to figure that out. 

Edited by DoubleJ
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4 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

^But thats exactly why it was banned.  There was no other reason than a bunch of crybabies being bad at the game.

there was, it was apparently super centralizing... snorlax and his counters had a very high usage, so they decided to try a test ban... did you even read what tyrone posted?

if you dont believe tyrone and you still believes it was because people was crying, there is something wrong with you, I mean, he is Tyrone, how can you dont believe him?

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@LuisPocho Because I actually play this game (by my own definition, which over half the TC fails to meet) and there was no legitimate reason to ban snorlax there is something wrong with me?  Your really stretching here dude.. snorlax isn't broken and just give the game a few months to see what a broken meta really looks like.  And yes i read what Tyrone wrote in the snorlax thread... that is what really made me question if the TC even plays this game or not, which, by the criteria i listed, they don't.

 

@DoubleJ - But tiering policies were broken were they not?  They banned snorlax under the criteria of being "centralizing" when we had a more even usage distribution than ever before.  Of course if i am wrong here, all they would have to do is post the usage stats of before snorlax came back, and compare them to the usage stats that are currently available (oct 4 - nov 5) this would put my argument to rest, but they aren't going to post that...  Regardless, I am more concerned with having a game that has a logical and dependable TC than if snorlax is in the game or not.  And its not even questionable if 1 month is a long enough test ban or not, it most definatly isnt.  If I haven't had time to breed my new "you haven't seen cancer yet" team, then the majority of the player base hasn't either.  Thanks for the post dude and good luck.

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40 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

Of course if i am wrong here, all they would have to do is post the usage stats of before snorlax came back, and compare them to the usage stats that are currently available (oct 4 - nov 5) this would put my argument to rest, but they aren't going to post that...  

The usage before Snorlax is not comparable to the usage with Snorlax since the usage gathering system changed.

We also had a reset which mean "before Snorlax" is no longer relevant.

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20 minutes ago, aeeaeeaaa said:

I'm not trying to restart this discussion, but do you guys see more diversity since Snorlax ban?

 

Just asking

(my experience is: "no", but I'm not that good so, maybe it's an upper tier thing?)

there is indeed a lot of pokemons that became usable,many playstyles are worthy now(offence)while back in the snorlax days,specials were shit and lax para'd each and everything that was able to switch on it, which forced people to use milo.

 

2 hours ago, Murcielago said:

^But thats exactly why it was banned.  There was no other reason than a bunch of crybabies being bad at the game.

show me how good you are at the game. 

Edited by xilias
typo'd
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15 hours ago, Murcielago said:

 

Another thing... what % of the tier council even plays this game?

 

2 hours ago, Murcielago said:

Attacking my ethos does nothing to counter my points, and if anything further solidifies that I am correct.

 

*Tiering policies were ignored in regards to the snorlax ban

*The TC doesn't even play the current OU metagame (prior to snorlax ban)

 

^If you don't find the above two facts to be alarming, I am not sure what to tell you.  We have a TC that ignores its own policies and doesn't even play the game that it is making decisions for.  Whether or not I am good at this game is irrelevant to the situation at hand.

 

How in the world do you not see the hypocrisy in these statements? You're pissed about the snorlax TEST ban, so you attack the council's credibility - but when someone calls out your own credibility because you're not very good, you throw your hands up and cry "No no whether I am good at this game is irrelevant to the situation at hand!!!"

 

If it weren't for this blatant, stupefying hypocrisy I'd address the rest of your "points," but alas that isn't the case. The ban didn't go the way you wanted, stop fucking whining and uguuing about it and start constructing posts why you don't think snorlax is unhealthy for the metagame - since, you know, it's a TEST ban and we haven't made a final decision yet. And ffs, "just wait a couple months and you'll see" is a really, really shitty argument

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