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OU Tier Discussion Request Thread


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7 hours ago, Erayne said:

I think gengar would finally change this too difensive meta. Like 50% players run 4 or more walls atm, and that's because the tc tend to prefer banning offensive pokemon instead of defensive ones. That just promotes brainless playing instead of the need to predict. The return of gengar to ou would definitely increase fun for those who actually can play. That of course is just my opinion.

100% agree. Exept on one small thing.

Devs would need to change tier´s name to "CANCER"

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  • 2 weeks later...

So we have a nice meta again. Let us observe the fact that we wont have walls for everything that could come flying at us.

Lets also observe that there are going to be a lot more pokemon used in the tier now.

Lastly there won't be as much curses, or body slam paras and we probably wont be seeing the same thing over and over and over again.

Thanks Tier Council Lets check out how much better this meta is now.

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                  Good thing this wont be happening for a while.

 

 

 

What does snorlax have to say for itself?

Spoiler

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I'm hoping close attention is being made to the monitoring of usage and that you don't just base this usage change on the first month people have a chance to adapt to a meta without snorlax.

In order to see these results I think that a slight bit more time than 30 days may be needed however, I think you will begin to notice the difference in poke usage right off the bat. HOWEVER I do believe that Chansey will be constant and annoyingly so as Ever.

I'm actually glad to see Chansey filling that spot snorlax once constantly filled for a time.

I gotta say this is refreshing.

Feel free to call this stale anyone but I'm already feeling like this is Christmas.

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8 hours ago, Gunthug said:

We discussed this at the last council meeting and determined that we shouldn't bring something already deemed uncompetitive back into the tier just to potentially check other broken things 

Ok but correct me if I'm wrong, but Snorlax was uber, then he wasn't. So you won't unban Dugtrio yet you did for Snorlax? Snorlax was 'deemed uncompetitive' yet it still went back to OU. I'm not trying to be rude I am just confused, I just need an answer as to why you would do that for Snorlax and not even consider it for another pokemon?

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12 minutes ago, hannahtaylor said:

Ok but correct me if I'm wrong, but Snorlax was uber, then he wasn't. So you won't unban Dugtrio yet you did for Snorlax? Snorlax was 'deemed uncompetitive' yet it still went back to OU. I'm not trying to be rude I am just confused, I just need an answer as to why you would do that for Snorlax and not even consider it for another pokemon?

The characteristics under which both pokemon were banned are different. Lax was unbanned when we got items such as life orb / specs because it seemed like it would make Lax's life harder than it was without items. Dugtrio on the other hand is banned for support characteristics because it works well with a team that uses a lot special attackers or a stall team. Dugtrio can trap Snorlax / Blissey which helps pave the way for special attackers to wreak havoc while Dug on stall teams can take out hard hitters like Metagross, Heracross, Mixed Blaziken etc. 

Edited by NikhilR
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6 minutes ago, hannahtaylor said:

Ok but correct me if I'm wrong, but Snorlax was uber, then he wasn't. So you won't unban Dugtrio yet you did for Snorlax? Snorlax was 'deemed uncompetitive' yet it still went back to OU. I'm not trying to be rude I am just confused, I just need an answer as to why you would do that for Snorlax and not even consider it for another pokemon?

Before the implementation of Life Ball, Shed Hull, Swift Choice Band and Special Choice Band, the pokemons that were banned from OU were Wobbuffet, Salamence, Tyranitar, Dragonite, Snorlax, Blissey, Gengar and Dugtrio:

  1. Wobbufet was banned for fitting Uber Support characteristics.
  2. Salamence was banned for fitting Uber Offense characteristics.
  3. Tyranitar was banned for fitting Uber Offense characteristics.
  4. Dragonite was banned for fitting Uber Offense characteristics.
  5. Snorlax and Blissey were jointly banned for being Unhealthy.
  6. Gengar was banned for being Unhealthy.
  7. Dugtrio was banned for being Unhealhty.

Snorlax was not deemed uncompetitive when it got banned back in 2015. It was extremely centralising and its special bulk was very problematic. When Life Ball and Special Choice Band got implemented, the ban of Snorlax was put into questionning since this special bulk on which he relied so much was not as good as it used to be.

 

The reason why the TC did not unban Dugtrio during the reset is that we did not believe this pokemon would be any less unhealthy than what he already was. Dugtrio was not deemed unhealthy back in 2015 because it was trapping Chansey. It got banned because it was revenge killing Offensive pokemons like Metagross, Heracross, Blaziken, Jolteon, Ursaring and several other threaths. 

The new item Shed Hull helps Chansey and Blissey escape Arena Trap from Dugtrio. These walls can afford to run Shed Hull. However, all the offensive threats can't really afford to drop their Lum Berry, Life Ball and Choice Band to hold a dead item like Shed Hull that is quite useless for them. Some of these threats can use Swift Choice Band to outspeed Dugtrio. The problem is that Dugtrio can also use Swift Choice Band if it wishes. It is also quite difficult to scout a revenge killer like Dugtrio, but it is very easy to determine the item an Heracross is holding based on the dmg it inflicts. It is quite unlikely for a non Swift Choice Band Dugtrio to be killed off by a faster pokemon because of the scouting ease from which a Dugtrio coming as a revenge killer benefits. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if a Metagross holding a Swift Choice Band is faster than Dugtrio since the Metagross is harmless against Dugtrio as soon as it locks itself on Thunder Punch. 

 

This was more or less the reasoning why Dugtrio was not unbanned during the reset. I am not sayign that I agree with everything about that reasoning, but the bottom line is that the TC made imo a fair assumption about what would happen if Dugtrio were to fall in OU. 

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