Jump to content

PokeMMO - A new players first impression (100~h)


ZippoBolter

Recommended Posts

Hello! I'm somewhat new to pokemmo, having just over 100 hours played so far i've come to a few disheartening conclusions based on the modifications made to the original game. 

My main issue is that this server is very noob unfriendly due to the unbalanced gap between veterans and everyone else. While there are plenty of players willing to give advice and pokemon to newer players to help them get going, i've noticed that when the in-game story is completed, the post game activities such as breeding, item/gold farming & trainer tower are extremely unforgiving. Although I am by no means new to pokemon, as a new player to this server i feel completely overwhelmed by the amount of grinding i'm expected to go through in order to accomplish anything.

Getting a full pokemon team with good IV's, hidden power, items and moves is unbelievably time consuming and expensive. Looking at Gilan's guide to breeding since the breeding update, while it's still possible to create a high quality team, it's also an insane amount of grind that screws over new players. For example, in this guide the price of creating a 6x31 pokemon from scratch is  1.8 million in bracers alone(WTF?!) PLUS a load of 31 IV dittos that are very expensive as well! There is SO much grinding and for some reason even grinding itself is nerfed.

Payday giving reduced funds, hold items breaking when using thief with a higher level pokemon and even random bullshit such as removing the elite four's cash payout and in-game nuggets so new players have less money. If i round up that 1.8 mil to 2 mil, assuming you buy some dittos and don't literally hunt for each individual ditto, that's basically 12 million just for one team of 6x31 pokemon. Seriously? You want to make it MUCH harder in every single possible way to achieve the primary goal of any trainer: Get a good team of pokemon and battle people.

This just isn't fair and to expect everyone to commit this much time and effort just to have a half way decent team is insane. I honestly believe the reason you veterans are fine with it is because you already have huge amount of resources to work with. You have money, "leftover pokemon" with good IV's to breed, and a team (that you bred while it was still a reasonable thing to accomplish) so of course it's no problem to you, only to those who are starting out. Do you expect me to quit my job and grind for months just so I can play rated battles and not get wrecked with low IV's/lack of expensive moves and items?(extreme speed & choice band for example). 

There is just such a massive gap between new players and veterans and it's so disappointing, you can't even battle them because there is no chance in hell you can win against their teams full of special hidden powers and perfect IV's (which they had the opportunity to mass before the breeding update). The new breeding makes it a hell of a lot harder, but everyone who already stockpiled boxes of perfect pokemon are just so far ahead you can never catch up without dedicating your life to this game. Basically, you decided to make the rich get richer, they have everything they need and are comfortable with any update, while the poor get poorer and need much more grind then the game originally intended just to have a chance, nothing more. 

I understand wanting to have a good economy and stuff, but seriously it comes at the expense of the new players. Starting off your adventure in a hole so deep that you need months of hardcore grinding to even do anything remotely competitive is just sad. You want people to put in effort to reap rewards? Sure. You want people to grind months on end at an extremely reduced payout in order to be on the same playing field as those who had the opportunity to create teams(not just one team after several months of grinding). 

I'm sorry but it's just not realistic. Most players on this server will never get there, it's just too much work for so little reward. You can argue that in an mmorpg, there will always be gaps like this, however this is pokemon lol like seriously, battling is the reason people play. People don't want to grind endlessly.. they want to battle! Forcing as much filler grinding down my throat doesn't improve the gaming experience, it just makes the grinding endless and the absolutely worst part of pokemon is milked beyond hell just so those at the top can stay there. :/
 

You know, the effort for creating a team might have seemed too low to you, but it doesn't change the fact that the damage is already done, people already have multiple 6x31 bagons in their PC's etc and being unable to ever have multiple teams is really sad, is a battle simulator literally the only option outside of months (possibly over a year of grind for more casual players) before they can battle on equal terms? The fact that you care more about your in-game economy and less about creating a fun pokemon mmorpg experience/encouraging players to battle and compete is well... greedy and disgusts me tbh. Don't even think about having multiple teams. You feel like making a sunny day team? Nope, too bad. You only get one team and you have to work your ass off for it. Want 2? Be prepared to no life or it just wont ever happen. 

I don't expect any changes based on what I said, I just want you to know how it feels to join this game thinking "hell yeah a pokemon mmorpg based in gen 3 where i can battle and trade with people!" only to find myself repeating boring tasks continuously with no end in sight. Everyone knows there is grind involved in pokemon and mmorpg, but adding as much padding as possible before you can even get a taste of the good stuff isn't fun or rewarding. These changes are the equivalent of naruto/bleach fillers. You people want me to endure that. Endure. Not play. Not enjoy. Endure. "No bullshit just games" ? More like no games, just grind. Yeah, might want to change that slogan since it's a complete lie.

Oh, yeah, one last thing. So I saw you were testing gen 4 for updates to this game, yes? You know what else you should test? Try power leveling a new character through all 16 badges and making a 6x31 team from scratch, no left over pokemon and no resources or help from your main or friends. I DARE you to record it and see just how long it takes and see if this is truly what you believe should be required for everyone to have access to what all veteran players currently have. Sitting there with your boxes full of perfect pokemon made before these updates doesn't impress me, lets see how you judge your own updates when you see it from a beginners point of view, since clearly, you can only see it from an economic point of view and nothing more. This was my experience, and I absolutely could not contain my resentment for these changes any longer.

Edit: This post isn't about trying to get a 6x31 team. My point is that everything from farming cash, items, BP, breeding, literally everything has been reduced to a hellish endless grind. a 6x31 team is just the worst offender, yet it's something that veteran players have stockpiled before the breeding update. The changes don't effect them, it's the new players who are hurt the most by any and all updates that increase the amount of grind required to reach an objective. 
Edited by ZippoBolter
Link to comment

Your goal shouldn't be a 6x31 unless you are looking to spend that extra time and cash. Much less an entire team of 6x31 pokemon

Well obviously, a 6x31 team with HP Breeding is pretty much unobtainable to most people, however those who had access to the old breeding system for years have access to all of this while anyone starting out is screwed. The rich have everything, the poor have to put far more effort for half the reward

Edit: I really doubt that that 1% who has 6x31 teams put this kind of effort into getting them and certainly not 2 million each

Edited by ZippoBolter
Link to comment

We are the 99%.

 

But yeah, I can sort of see where you're coming from where grinding can seem overwhelming, but on the other hand you could look at it from this perspective: I''ve got ~270 hours on record, playing on and off for a period of months, and yesterday I decided a Flygon would be a good addition to my team.

 

I turned on an old O&A radio show, grinded Pay Day, and in about 2-3 hours I had 200k. Just so happened to sell an overcoat to a teammate for convienence otherwise I would have spent another 3-4 hours grinding to get to ~450k which would have been enough for a viable Flygon depending on who you're buying from.

 

Honestly 7 hours of grinding for a very specific and perfect addition to my team isn't that bad.

 

I battle people with way better teams than me all the time. I win some, I lose some, but that's not really the point. If all you've come here to do is win win win, then perhaps you are the one who has missed the point of a Pokemon MMO.

Link to comment

I log in to chat to friends from time to time. Other than that this game's endgame is not for the light heart-ed. Unless you love grinding forever. Forever is a long time. Your topic/post has honestly been the only post that I arguably enjoyed reading in months since the update changes and the new region. And I completely agree with everything you said. That's why I don't even bother playing anymore. Is still a huge gap even with the players that join couple months before the breeding change.

 

You want competitiveness? Go play them simulators like you said.

Link to comment

Well obviously, a 6x31 team with HP Breeding is pretty much unobtainable to most people, however those who had access to the old breeding system for years have access to all of this while anyone starting out is screwed. The rich have everything, the poor have to put far more effort for half the reward

Edit: I really doubt that that 1% who has 6x31 teams put this kind of effort into getting them and certainly not 2 million each

 

Actually, hp breeding is easier now and i see a lot more 6x31 around.

The change had to be made sooner, no doubt, but it had to be done.

At this point, new and old player will have to pass through the same things to get a new comp.

 

Edit: Btw, don't breed, it's a waste of time, just clean up 5/6/7 island twice and you'll have enough money to buy a comp.

shouldn't take more than 2 hours with a just lvl 100 persian with return, payday and water pulse (ev trained ofc)

Edited by Vaeldras
Link to comment

My consensus

1. Grinding is ridiculously shit
2. People have too high standards for IVs
3. Breeding is still shit
4. Our community is stagant and shit because nobody helps new players get better
5. I'm happy there is a gap between vets and new players because we have put in thousands of hours...and you didn't...
6. Grinding is shit, so it doesn't help new players get good anyway
7. Breeding is still shit

Basically the game is a gigantic grind wall

Edited by DrCraig
Link to comment

As others have stated, a team of 6x31 Pokemon is entirely unnecessary. With the exception of speed on a Pokemon that has to fully invest in it, 31s aren't actually necessary in any stat. The performance difference between a Pokemon with 25 and 31 in a stat is miniscule in 99.9% of cases.

 

As a general rule, 25+ in the most important stats and 20+ in the others is plenty good enough and can be obtained relatively cheaply. If you know how to really use the system, it's actually pretty easy to make comps with it. A couple of nice catches could yield a usable comp in an egg or two. An average comp usually takes less than a day to create from scratch if you know what you're doing, and nowhere near 1m in raw costs unless you're aiming for something a lot better than it has to be or you use breeders of the bare minimum (1x25+) quality.

 

As for Hidden Power, it's admittedly difficult/frustrating to obtain, but plenty doable and not many Pokemon truly need it regardless. The issue that most players seem have with it is having to narrow the IVs of the Pokemon that they catch in order to work out the right combinations, but apparently confirmed IVs will be a thing at some point. Any left over breeders from Hidden Power can be sold or used for non-HP Pokemon too, so nothing gets wasted.

 

Most of the scraps from the old breeding system have been used by now, and everyone needs to catch Pokemon to obtain comps. While it's true that the older players have somewhat of an advantage, the majority of them now lack ways to maintain that inherent advantage with their old breeders either gone or nearly gone. They now go through the same grind that you do when creating a comp. Some of them have several thousand hours logged too, so it's inevitable that there is going to be a gap regardless.

 

While it's daunting when you don't start with much, it's entirely possible to catch up to and compete with older players. In the end, it's the player's skill (and sometimes RNG) that wins them battles, not the number of Pokemon in their boxes. You can only bring 6 into a battle after all.

Link to comment

I'll be quite frank, I read the first few paragraphs then realised I had the rest of the book to go, I'll wait for the movie thx. From what I did read however besides the grind (which veterans and noobs alike struggle with) you seem to be questioning the breeding methods. As Munya stated, 6x31 pokes are really uneeded as having 25+ in the necessary stats is often enough. The fact that some people have access to 6x31 pokes already doesn't really matter since you can still take it down just fine with slightly worse pokes, it's the player that wins battles not the pokemon and hax helps. When it comes to the cost, although Gilan's guide is correct in it's math, it also assumes you only caught 1x31 pokemon for your breeding, in most cases when you go hunting for breeders you will find some with multitudes of good stats on the one catch ultimately lowering the cost to make the final comp. For example just the other day I spent a few hours slugma hunting for an amorphous breeder, and after almost a box full of catches I used about 6 iirc to make my comp pokemon with IV's 26,x,29,29,29,30. Also you seem to mention ditto's alot, i'm not sure whether this is just to generalise breeding, but if you are breeding a pokemon it is much better to use an easy to obtain pokemon in the same egg group as the breeders.

 

Also for those who struggle with getting 31 speed on a comp, it helps to pass the speed last and just pass it through the breeding chain to the comp pokemon. Also don't breed for HiddenPower until confirmed IV's, takes too much time and effort.

Edited by Kizhaz
Link to comment

My consensus

1. Grinding is ridiculously shit
2. People have too high standards for IVs
3. Breeding is still shit
4. Our community is stagant and shit because nobody helps new players get better
5. I'm happy there is a gap between vets and new players because we have put in thousands of hours...and you didn't...
6. Grinding is shit, so it doesn't help new players get good anyway
7. Breeding is still shit

Basically the game is a gigantic grind wall


Yeah... that's the problem. The massive price tag on Bracers/BP Moves/Items etc requires massive grind. Nerfing the base ability to obtain money/hold items via grinding is just icing on top of the grind wall to make it even more painful. Really, that's the best way to describe it. Painful

Link to comment
These changes are the equivalent of naruto/bleach fillers. You people want me to endure that. Endure. Not play. Not enjoy. Endure. "No bullshit just games" ? More like no games, just grind. Yeah, might want to change that slogan since it's a complete lie.

Welcome to pokemmo, where you are lied and deceived, enjoy your stay~

Link to comment

The game has been harsh to new players after the update, that's for sure. Players who have been around for a while before the update do have an incredible advantage, and there is nothing we can do about that. The devs knows that the game is imbalanced and will eventually make things easier, but they have always been wary of making it too easy before they balance it. If you want to play the game in it's current state instead of waiting for better times, here are some tips:

 

-Gilan made a breeding guide before I was able to - there is nothing wrong with his guide, but it is important to understand what it teaches you and what it doesn't. For one, it is obvious that making 6x31 pokemon is not worth your time. In my guide (inappropriately named) I give some useful tips about efficient breeding: https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/51028-list-of-easy-to-catch-pokemon-from-different-egg-groups-and-their-locations/

-Join a team. Teams share pokemon, and is the best experience of this game right now. It will make things a ton easier and give you a better experience overall.

-Newer players are bashed because of the sheer amount of stupid people that show up every day with their ignorance. You might dislike it how much you want, but a good idea to be treated like an equal is to not ask trivial questions, and to read guides etc that will make you more knowledgeable.

 

It's a shame that newer players like yourself are currently punished by the bad priorities of the devs. Maybe they will learn sometime.

Link to comment

Wild catching is the problem. In the clonemmo era everybody was like "yo I miss catchmmo and getting wild comps." Now I think it needs to be realized that catching was only a good idea on paper and nobody actually wants to do that grinding. Sitting for hours hoping for good IVs and nature is the most brainless waste of fucking time, and most of all, stacking that waste of hours on top of other brainless tasks such as getting money and eving. I know staff likes to sit there and go "oh wow players have so much choice and breeding refinement is genius and wold catches brings out the original feels of pokemon" but they totally ignore players with hundreds and hundreds of HOURS. Thousands of HOURS. Staff underestimates how long an hour is and just looks at its dumb community like "meh they have to get good somehow like other RPGs." An hour is a long time. 1k hours is multiple days. People have several thousands and have to deal with this grinding. Days. Months. It's a lot of time.

Rant over.
Sorry.

Edited by DrCraig
Link to comment

Wild catching is the problem. In the clonemmo era everybody was like "yo I miss catchmmo and getting wild comps." Now I think it needs to be realized that catching was only a good idea on paper and nobody actually wants to do that grinding. Sitting for hours hoping for good IVs and nature is the most brainless waste of fucking time, and most of all, stacking that waste of hours on top of other brainless tasks such as getting money and eving. I know staff likes to sit there and go "oh wow players have so much choice and breeding refinement is genius and wold catches brings out the original feels of pokemon" but they totally ignore players with hundreds and hundreds of HOURS. Thousands of HOURS. Staff underestimates how long an hour is and just looks at its dumb community like "meh they have to get good somehow like other RPGs." An hour is a long time. 1k hours is multiple days. People have several thousands and have to deal with this grinding. Days. Months. It's a lot of time.

Rant over.
Sorry.

clonemmo was fun at first, but it got boring to me when you could buy/sell good iv pokemon for like 25k. it felt like showdown with grinding imo

current system is just boring. sure its better for the economy, but it just doesn't make for an enjoyable experience imo.

i would love an entirely new breeding system or a refined clonemmo, but me saying i dont like the current system probably put a giant smile on kyu's face

Link to comment

Breeding mechanics are awesome.
Every single process entailed with it is complete shit. Wild catching, item hunting, money grinding, IV narrowing, EVing, movesetting and REPEAT. Hours upon hours to get better because pokemmo is an mmorpg which means written in stone,"Thou must spendith several thousands of hours to compete." Casual gamer? Go fuck yourself

Edited by DrCraig
Link to comment

Breeding mechanics are awesome.
Every single process entailed with it is complete shit. Wild catching, item hunting, money grinding, IV narrowing, EVing, movesetting and REPEAT. Hours upon hours to get better because pokemmo is an mmorpg which means written in stone,"Thou must spendith several thousands of hours to compete." Casual gamer? Go fuck yourself

 

I must agree with this. Before the new breeding system, this game had exactly one feature worth playing for - PvP. The new breeding added a new element to this. I know a lot of people are not on my side, but I REALLY like the new breeding mechanics. Figuring out what to put together to get optimal IVs, egg moves, hidden power - it is a feature worth playing for on its own. But unfortunately, more than 90% of the gameplay is neither PvP nor breeding, it's grinding to make these things possible. Catching, EV'ing, IV narrowing, money farming etc - neither of these things are a part of the breedings system, they are just there to take up your time. Of course there needs to be a way of slowing down breeding, but not in such a way that more than 90% of the gameplay makes you want to do anything but play this game.

Link to comment

@OP

My main issue is that this server is very noob unfriendly due to the unbalanced gap between veterans and everyone else

A nobody, and by nobody I mean literally anyone with breeding unlocked, can now make a 6x31 or multiple 5x in a matter of days. If you don't want to grind for days you can aim for low.
The gap you are talking about is relative to time (or laziness), if you spend enough time(doing the right thing) you will catch up. That's what most MMOs are all about.
Link to comment

I do agree the grinding in PokeMMO is too time consuming, considering how many comps you actually need. As a competitive player, you can't just have 6 - you need much more.

However, I have to correct the part about veteran players winning due to their high IV Pokemon. That is not true, not even close. Certain moves with Shard tutors or in some rare cases with Battle Points are needed to make a certain Pokemon usable but IVs just don't matter that much if you want to play competitively. Obviously, the higher the better but just some quick calcs tell a Pokemon like all 20 compared to 6x 31 isn't that much inferior. The reason why veteran players win more is 99% about their competitive knowledge and prediction skills. Just for the record, the first official I ever won I had a Relaxed Pinsir in my UU team. So... yeah.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.