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UU Viability Thread


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I personally think Vileplume should be put up at least to A+, if not S itself. While admittedly it's not the most bulky thing in the world, it's proven to have consistently high usage and is debatably even the most common cleric even if it provides solely Aromatherapy support, given it's strong synergy alongside some other prominent defensive Pokemon in the metagame. It's admittedly something the council had in mind post Slowking/Scizor ban, although I suppose we have to wait and see. Moreso the removal of those two does provide it with better reliability somewhat because it was a free switch to Scizor unless it had HP Fire.  With the ability to run tankiness on both spectrums it can check, if not counter, a fair variety of things, as well as other annoying utility moves in Leech Seed and Sleep Powder, and reliable recovery to top that off. It's also not that weak offensively as well, being able to run an offensive set being desirable and Sludge Bomb poisons can be troublesome for more frailer checks that want to switch in on it. 

Edited by YagamiNoir
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Jynx to B or B+ pls chansey wall it and houndoom trap it easily.

Steelix to A+ pls it's the best UU def wall and even most used than hitmonlee.

Jynx has had 3 of its counters banned to BL in Slowking, Scizor and Umby. I dont think moving it down is logical because chansey walls it.

Steelix needs support and is only used because we lack reliable normal type resistances. It is a huge poke, and can phaze, wall psychic/bolt, status, explode, but it all needs support. This isn't a usage ranking, it's a viability ranking. Steelix is a fairly specific wall, as opposed to Chansey which walls a plethora of attackers. Edited by DrCraig
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Does someone have the time+patience to open an exeggutor thread?

 

This thing has become a monster now that Umbreon and Scizor are gone. The most Monstruous set is the sunny beam sweeper set. Not only this beast outspeeds the meta in sun, it also has access to Sleep Powder. The huge base special attack allows it to sweep through teams, or heavily disrupt them if anything. On top of that, it can also choose to run explode, which is pretty convenient after it killed something.

 

The number of counters is dropping with each ban and I feel like it is time for this monster to go.

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Does someone have the time+patience to open an exeggutor thread?

 

This thing has become a monster now that Umbreon and Scizor are gone. The most Monstruous set is the sunny beam sweeper set. Not only this beast outspeeds the meta in sun, it also has access to Sleep Powder. The huge base special attack allows it to sweep through teams, or heavily disrupt them if anything. On top of that, it can also choose to run explode, which is pretty convenient after it killed something.

 

The number of counters is dropping with each ban and I feel like it is time for this monster to go.

 

It is definitely the best special attacking powerhouse we have right now. Bannable? I'm not sure. It is still handled quite easily by Chansey, Clef, and really anything that has a resistance and protect. Nevertheless it hits like an absolute truck and has impressive defensive resistances allowing it to set-up the sun fairly easily. On the off hand it is a nice check to a Superpower from Hitmonlee.

 

This thing is scary with only a handful of checks and one, maybe two reliable counters (Chansey, and maybe Clefable). Where are my bulky fire-types at? Flareon, I needs you to start seeing some usage or this Exegg is wandering off to Borderline. 

 

Speaking of Flareon, I think it's time the meta start to see more of it. Able to switch in on any grass-type with its impressive special bulk, Flareon can terrify most of the meta with that powerful attack stat. It also has access to priority, superpower, STAB Fire attacks, and a plethora of hidden powers. Flareon could be the mixed-attacker we've been looking for. 

 

[spoiler] Hint: It also makes Houndoom cringe [/spoiler]

 

Time to start running bulky Flareons boyos. 

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Does someone have the time+patience to open an exeggutor thread?

 

This thing has become a monster now that Umbreon and Scizor are gone. The most Monstruous set is the sunny beam sweeper set. Not only this beast outspeeds the meta in sun, it also has access to Sleep Powder. The huge base special attack allows it to sweep through teams, or heavily disrupt them if anything. On top of that, it can also choose to run explode, which is pretty convenient after it killed something.

 

The number of counters is dropping with each ban and I feel like it is time for this monster to go.

Flareon, Hypno, Grumpig, Clefable, pory2 (might outspeed after sun with trace>chloro), chansey, houndoom, ninetales,...

Signal Beam does x4 (oneshots) most Exegg's and is widely available now.

Scizor was never even a counter for this thing, I don't know why you brought it up.

I don't really see it being too strong to be honest, sure it cleans lategame in the sun, but thats what they are for.

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Flareon, Hypno, Grumpig, Clefable, pory2 (might outspeed after sun with trace>chloro), chansey, houndoom, ninetales,...

Signal Beam does x4 (oneshots) most Exegg's and is widely available now.

Scizor was never even a counter for this thing, I don't know why you brought it up.

I don't really see it being too strong to be honest, sure it cleans lategame in the sun, but thats what they are for.

252+ SpA Exeggutor Psychic vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 76-91 (47.7 - 57.2%) -- 48% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Exeggutor SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Hypno: 84-100 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Exeggutor SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 40+ SpD Porygon2: 100-118 (52 - 61.4%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Exeggutor SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Grumpig: 93-109 (49.7 - 58.2%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Exeggutor Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ninetales: 84-99 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

And not to mention explosion ohkos all of those things above. I don't know what you mean by scizor not being able to counter exeggutor. Scizor was one of the only things that resisted grass and psychic, had decent bulk, and could boost with swords dance to hit exeggutor with steel wing or aerial ace or thief. Running signal beam on psychic types would purely be for exeggutor now, since umbreon was banned, as well.

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252+ SpA Exeggutor Psychic vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 76-91 (47.7 - 57.2%) -- 48% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Exeggutor SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Hypno: 84-100 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Exeggutor SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 40+ SpD Porygon2: 100-118 (52 - 61.4%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Exeggutor SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Grumpig: 93-109 (49.7 - 58.2%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Exeggutor Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ninetales: 84-99 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

And not to mention explosion ohkos all of those things above. I don't know what you mean by scizor not being able to counter exeggutor. Scizor was one of the only things that resisted grass and psychic, had decent bulk, and could boost with swords dance to hit exeggutor with steel wing or aerial ace or thief. Running signal beam on psychic types would purely be for exeggutor now, since umbreon was banned, as well.

That damage is pretty bad for a late game cleaner.

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That damage is pretty bad for a late game cleaner.

Those are the "best" special walls in the tier and are very susceptible to being pursuit trapped. Exeggutor ohkos pretty much everything that isn't a special wall though. Quagsire, swellow, manectric, kingler, crawdaunt, granbull, steelix, vileplume, hitmonlee, tentacruel, lanturn, zangoose, donphan, gligar, jynx, kabutops, and countless other UU pokemon are all pretty much ohko'ed by exeggutor (or 85% damage at least)

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i would like to point out that sleep powder is complete shit with it's low accuracy and the 33% chance of sleep lasting one turn (ignoring early bird kangas/doom/giraf/xatu) and people should not consider it viable on exeggutor.

 

to further my point. exeggutor needs sun to outspeed mos tthings. without it most pokemon outspeed exeggutor. meaning if you run sleep powder you are in one of 2 situations. either you are trying to sleep something so you can set up sun and outspeed, or you are trying to sleep something with sun up and you cant kill it so you need the extra turns. in situation one you miss 1/4 of the time then succeed the other 3/4 of the time and have 1/3 of those 3/4 times end up with a one turn wake. if you otuspeed then you basicaly succeeded in stalling 2 turns and nothing else. if you outspeed then you have taken 2 hits and done no damage. since sun only last 5 turns, you can not afford to waste turns with sleep stalling.

 

also this forces vile to run s bomb and any turn vile does not sbomb is a turn exeggutor can switch in for free and kill or force out vile. since the entire reason vile is viable is support/wall and it cant support or wall without healing itself and using aroma this acts as a very good check(counter if no sbomb) to vile.

Edited by fredrichnietze
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i would like to point out that sleep powder is complete shit with it's low accuracy and the 33% chance of sleep lasting one turn (ignoring early bird kangas/doom/giraf/xatu) and people should not consider it viable on exeggutor.

 

to further my point. exeggutor needs sun to outspeed mos tthings. without it most pokemon outspeed exeggutor. meaning if you run sleep powder you are in one of 2 situations. either you are trying to sleep something so you can set up sun and outspeed, or you are trying to sleep something with sun up and you cant kill it so you need the extra turns. in situation one you miss 1/4 of the time then succeed the other 3/4 of the time and have 1/3 of those 3/4 times end up with a one turn wake. if you otuspeed then you basicaly succeeded in stalling 2 turns and nothing else. if you outspeed then you have taken 2 hits and done no damage. since sun only last 5 turns, you can not afford to waste turns with sleep stalling.

 

also this forces vile to run s bomb and any turn vile does not sbomb is a turn exeggutor can switch in for free and kill or force out vile. since the entire reason vile is viable is support/wall and it cant support or wall without healing itself and using aroma this acts as a very good check(counter if no sbomb) to vile.

Well exeggutor is left with only a few options. It can either run sleep powder, explosion, or hp rock in the last spot. If I can sleep powder a porygon before it ice beams me, great for me. Also I wasn't aware of people that didn't run sludge bomb on vileplume. Sludge bomb is great for status vs flareon/hypno/cacturne/breloom/exeggutor/vileplume. 

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Well exeggutor is left with only a few options. It can either run sleep powder, explosion, or hp rock in the last spot. If I can sleep powder a porygon before it ice beams me, great for me. Also I wasn't aware of people that didn't run sludge bomb on vileplume. Sludge bomb is great for status vs flareon/hypno/cacturne/breloom/exeggutor/vileplume. 

lots of people like running leech or protect(cb scoutin) or hp fire/ice + aroma/synth or moonlight/giga

 

also other options for exeggutor are hp fire, sbomb(for doom mostly if too poor for rock), aceint power (dat boost), wish, and synth/moonlight for bulkier builds that try to live long enough to set up sun multiple times.

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I like this discussion, but it isn't really about viability. :)
 
[spoiler]But what does vileplume do when it takes a psychic?![/spoiler]

stun spore, sleep powder, sludgebomb

Also shiftry can outspeed with its own chlorophyl
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I like this discussion, but it isn't really about viability. :)

 

[spoiler]But what does vileplume do when it takes a psychic?![/spoiler]

Depends on who it's from, don't expect it to hurt as much as you'd like depending on the spread if you're a Hypno, and even Haunter can't even 2HKO that effin thing. 

 

252 SpA Haunter Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vileplume: 74-88 (40.6 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

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Depends on who it's from, don't expect it to hurt as much as you'd like depending on the spread if you're a Hypno, and even Haunter can't even 2HKO that effin thing. 
 
252 SpA Haunter Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vileplume: 74-88 (40.6 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery[/size]

Well I assumed Exeggutor lol
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Depends on who it's from, don't expect it to hurt as much as you'd like depending on the spread if you're a Hypno, and even Haunter can't even 2HKO that effin thing. 

 

252 SpA Haunter Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vileplume: 74-88 (40.6 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

no one uses 252 hp/spdef calm vile. most people use max def bold or some split spread so it's 3hko'd by ice beam pory/lanturn and 2-3hko'd by certain phsyical threats like swellow/cb eq's/lee

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  • 2 weeks later...

Kingler to at least A+. Without Jellicent it's coverage is perfect when it carries Crabhammer and Double Edge, CB set plows through teams that sit at full health while SD set makes an insanely good lategame killer, especially in a meta where 90% of players carry slow teams filled with walls. It has 3 viable and very powerful sets (SD, Flail, Crabhammer, Sub/ Endure is one, CB with Superpower/ Crabhammer/ Double Edge/ filler is second and third is same as CB but for filler there's SDance) that are powered by it's sky high 130 base attack, along with it's decent speed and pretty good bulk on physical side, it makes an even better destroyer of walls than overhyped WEELEE. CB Kingler can also stay for much longer in the battle as it's STAB attack does not lower it's attack and defense plus it is not avoided by ghost types.

 

E:

Only Exeggutor can survive Kingler's assault

252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Exeggutor: 90-107 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

[spoiler]252+ Atk Choice Band Kingler Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 90-107 (49.4 - 58.7%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

 

but plume does not kek[/spoiler]

Oh and Blastoise isn't viable at all here, "A" rank is a joke. Haven't seen a single Blast during last UU tournament (yesterday).

Edited by RysPicz
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Without Jellicent it's coverage is perfect when it carries Crabhammer and Double Edge

 

I'm not sure what to make of this remark. Seeing as jellicent is not at all relevant, why not also note that the lack of storm drain cradily, empoleon, dialga, giratina, ferrothorn, trevenant and gourgeist all contribute to the fact that water/normal has perfect coverage?

 

[spoiler]Today I decided I'd rather be a dick than contributing to the discussion.[/spoiler]

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I'm not sure what to make of this remark. Seeing as jellicent is not at all relevant, why not also note that the lack of storm drain cradily, empoleon, dialga, giratina, ferrothorn, trevenant and gourgeist all contribute to the fact that water/normal has perfect coverage?

 

[spoiler]Today I decided I'd rather be a uguu than contributing to the discussion.[/spoiler]

Just way too used to future generations, doesn't really matter much though- you're not dumb, you get the point of my post about Kingler

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I'm not sure what to make of this remark. Seeing as jellicent is not at all relevant, why not also note that the lack of storm drain cradily, empoleon, dialga, giratina, ferrothorn, trevenant and gourgeist all contribute to the fact that water/normal has perfect coverage?

[spoiler]Today I decided I'd rather be a uguu than contributing to the discussion.[/spoiler]


No love for shedinja
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