UU Viability Thread

[DoubleJ]

Xatu probably to A rank. It's speed, ability, and typing are pretty impressive. And that coverage. 

[Robofiend]

Xatu probably to A rank. It's speed, ability, and typing are pretty impressive. And that coverage. 

 

 

Inb4 Houndoom

[Pedrr]

Maybe Crawdaunt should be revomed to A+ Rank (why not S)

Dual Stabb Crabhammer + Crunch and access to superpower really powerfull

Access to DD 

Jolly Crawdaunt after 1DD = 175 Speed > Raichu / Kadabra (signal beam) / Electrabuzz / Manetric

 

have not the time to calc crobat's damages on crawdaunt but i think it 2HKO with gigadrain

[Archinix]

[OrangeManiac]

Maybe Crawdaunt should be revomed to A+ Rank (why not S)

Dual Stabb Crabhammer + Crunch and access to superpower really powerfull

Access to DD 

Jolly Crawdaunt after 1DD = 175 Speed > Raichu / Kadabra (signal beam) / Electrabuzz / Manetric

 

have not the time to calc crobat's damages on crawdaunt but i think it 2HKO with gigadrain

I have to disagree. The low defense and multiple weaknesses makes Crawdaunt's set up really hard and situational. Since the tier is lacking even more walls (Miltank and Umbreon namely) there's isn't much stuff Crawdaunt can come in reliably to set up. Yes, after a free turn set up Crawdaunt might cause a sweep occasionally but since it's way too situational there's no way you could rank it S. Even A rank would be a bit too much for it imo.

[BurntZebra]

I have to disagree. The low defense and multiple weaknesses makes Crawdaunt's set up really hard and situational. Since the tier is lacking even more walls (Miltank and Umbreon namely) there's isn't much stuff Crawdaunt can come in reliably to set up. Yes, after a free turn set up Crawdaunt might cause a sweep occasionally but since it's way too situational there's no way you could rank it S. Even A rank would be a bit too much for it imo.

And there's hitmonlee which ohkos crawdaunt with mach punch, so crawdaunt will realistically never sweep, imo its dropped in viability since umbreon was banned since umbreon was pretty much set up bait for it.

[Toast]

cmon craig spell ninetales right

[DrCraig]

cmon craig spell ninetales right

I was correcting gamefreak's mistake.

[DrCraig]

Personally I have not seen Sceptile used, so I'm relying on theory.

Anybody else have some suggestion and reason to a rank for it?

 

I'd rank Sceptile S. It has some massive sweeping potential, it's very fast and Overgrow Leaf Blade hurts. Sub + SD Overgrow makes switching out usually a huge risk. It has limited amount of counters if you consider a special sweeping Hidden Power set but that's inferior to physical imo. There Vileplume is the only idiotproof counter. Altaria can use Sceptile as a set-up bait if it has HP Ice Scouted, same goes for Scizor with HP Fire scouted away. (easier said than done though) And that's pretty much everything viable I could come up with stopping Sceptile out cold. Meanwhile I do think Sceptile has the sweep potential.

Edit: Exe works pretty well also but still.

[BurntZebra]

Personally I have not seen Sceptile used, so I'm relying on theory.

Anybody else have some suggestion and reason to a rank for it?

swords dance+aerial ace sceptile and endeavor sceptile both take vileplume to some extent. The first takes on sp defensive plume actually, and endeavor sceptile just brings everything down to 1 hp. So in theory, there aren't any good counters to sceptile actually. I'm not really sure on giving pokemon exact rankings since it all seems kind of vague.

[DrCraig]

Due to recent tier council decisions:

• Slowking has been removed from the list
• Scizor has been removed from the list
• Sceptile will not be added to the list

 

It would be appropriate now to discuss changes in viability of pokemon which were effected by Scizor's, Slowking's and Sceptile's presence in UU.

[BurntZebra]

Hitmonlee is a lot more viable now that slowking isn't there to stop it, although its already S rank. Vileplume and exeggutor are more viable because now their stabs are pretty much unresisted in the UU tier. Porygon is also slightly more viable, as before scizor could come in on tbolt/ice beam/return/toxic from porygon, and only had to worry about hp fire, which was fairly rare. 

[PandaJJ]

Quagsire will certainly be more viable as it's the only viable pokemon with recovery that stops hitmonlee, in place of slowking. Gligar, exeggutor and altaria will probably become more viable as they can stop hitmonlee. Rock and steel types like steelix, aggron, golem, omastar, armaldo and shuckle might become more viable thanks to their normal resistance, in place of scizor.

[YagamiNoir]

Quagsire will certainly be more viable as it's the only viable pokemon with recovery that stops hitmonlee, in place of slowking. Gligar, exeggutor and altaria will probably become more viable as they can stop hitmonlee. Rock and steel types like steelix, aggron, golem, omastar, armaldo and shuckle might become more viable thanks to their normal resistance, in place of scizor.

I really don't exactly understand the whole hype on Quagsire countering physical threats. 

 

Choice Band Hitmonlee Superpower vs. Quagsire: 128-151 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 Choice Band Hitmonlee Superpower vs. Quagsire: 86-102 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

[OldKeith]

Quag will never be a viable wall just because it gives Vileplume a free switch-in. It has a nice typing and can come on some banded attacks, but the fact that it is completely walled by grass types is its downfall.

[PandaJJ]

I really don't exactly understand the whole hype on Quagsire countering physical threats. 

 

Choice Band Hitmonlee Superpower vs. Quagsire: 128-151 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 Choice Band Hitmonlee Superpower vs. Quagsire: 86-102 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

That's an adamant lee, but yeah, even jolly has a chance to 2HKO if you switch in on superpower. It takes anything else, and can be paired with a grass type to take blaze kick.

 

Quag will never be a viable wall just because it gives Vileplume a free switch-in. It has a nice typing and can come on some banded attacks, but the fact that it is completely walled by grass types is its downfall.

 

Saying that it never will be viable is quite harsh, but I agree that it does attract grass types that should be on every team.

[DoubleJ]

Excited to see where the meta goes. Got a feeling that Lee is going to become pretty ridiculous.

[OldKeith]

Sub bulk up hitmonlee new chuck norris amirite?

[MisterHide]

With access to blaze kick and 152 max speed, Hitmonlee might be too much for UU (on my phone ATM, would like to see damage on claydol)

 

Edit: 

[spoiler]

Jolly = 252 Atk Choice Band Hitmonlee Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Claydol: 49-58 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Adamant= 252+ Atk Choice Band Hitmonlee Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Claydol: 53-63 (31.7 - 37.7%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

+2 252 Atk Hitmonlee Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Claydol: 64-76 (38.3 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

When claydol hit back:

(31IV stak) 6 SpA Claydol Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonlee: 72-86 (57.1 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(25IV satk) 6 SpA Claydol Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonlee: 68-84 (53.9 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

Some others calcs:

Jolly= 252 Atk Choice Band Hitmonlee Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 49-58 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 98.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Adamant= 252+ Atk Choice Band Hitmonlee Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 53-63 (30.8 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

+2 252 Atk Hitmonlee Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 64-76 (37.2 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

When gligar hit back

(31IV atk) 6 Atk Gligar Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 90-108 (71.4 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[/spoiler]

 

There is still way to stop hitmonlee from sweep, but the sword dance set look pretty scary, deserve to be at least discussed.

 

mfw hitmonlee can't learn sword dance

Edited May 4, 2015 by MisterHide

[DoubleJ]

Claydol is still an amazing counter for lee and now an even better option in UU with both Slowking and Scizor gone. I'm excited to see the upcoming tournaments

[Archinix]

Claydol is still an amazing counter for lee and now an even better option in UU with both Slowking and Scizor gone. I'm excited to see the upcoming tournaments

Gotta admit, I've been playing around with Claydol in theory and in game. Gotta admit I love it

[caughtem]

Gotta admit, I've been playing around with Claydol in theory and in game. Gotta admit I love it

Yeah, claydol is just a complete boss. Maybe consider it for B+ at least?

Edited May 5, 2015 by caughtem

[Linken]

pika to atleast A cause it's reking in OU

[spoiler]half serious[/spoiler]

[DrCraig]

Claydol has been moved to B+ Rank.

 

Resiting quakueslide and a great counter to Lee, Claydol is a great defensive poke. With the removal of Scizor, Slowking, Sceptile, Umbreon, and Miltank there is more room for Claydol to be played. The biggest downfall of Claydol is its lack of instant HP recovery, thus it needs cleric and wish support in order to remain healthy.

 

yada yada yada

I like the discussion :)

[fredrichnietze]

I was correcting gamefreak's mistake.

can you say this again or something? i feel like only liking it only once does not accurately reflect on how good this post was.

 

also i support moving pika up. with fak out + espeed it can revenge kill like nothing else and pika is probably the best mixed attacker around.