UU Viability Thread

[DrCraig]

 

 

Welcome to the UU Viability Thread. If you do not know what a viability thread entails read further. A viability thread has as purpose to put Pokémon into 'ranks', by lack of a better term. In the UU viability rankings we base our rankings on how viable certain Pokémon in UU are. Discussion is encouraged and remember that you are always entitled to your opinion but forget not to be respectful to other community members.

 

There won't be a split between offensive/defensive/support Pokémon as this is a general viability thread. Meaning offensive and defensive Pokémon can fit into the same rank without utilizing the same role.

 

Lastly, this thread also functions as a discussion about the UU metagame. By all means do not hold back on discussing your thoughts; how you think can go better, or how you think everything is already going well. Bringing underrated Pokémon up for discussion is also part of a viability thread discussion. When proposing a ranking change please post reasoning behind your argument to strengthen your position as well as to make sure we avoid the thread being littered or derailed.

 

Current Hot Topics

• Overall discussion regarding Pokemon viability in the new meta

 

Resources for Discussion

• PokeMMO Official Tier Lists and Usage Statistics
• UU Tier Discussion Request Thread
• Pokémon Damage Calculator *May be subject to mechanic differences
• Smogon Pokedex *May be subject to mechanic differences
• PokeMMO Speed Tiers Lv50
• Tiering Etiquette Guide

 

Other Viability Threads:

• Doubles Viability
• OU Viability
• NU Viability 

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PokeMMO UU Viability Ranking

*Pokemon are listed in alphabetical order per their rank

*To find a Pokemon's specific ranking, use the Find function through Ctrl+F

 

 

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the UU metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon define the metagame.

 

S Rank:

 

 

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the UU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits. These Pokemon exert a strong presence in the metagame.

 

A+ Rank:

Exeggutor

Manectric

Scizor

Slowking

Cradily

 

 

A Rank:

Altaria

Armaldo

Hitmonlee

Jynx

Meganium

Miltank

Omastar

Sneasel

Swellow

Tentacruel

 

 

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the UU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. These Pokemon exert an above average presence in the metagame.

 

B+ Rank:

Azumarill

Clefable

Crawdaunt

Crobat

Donphan

Muk

Nidoking

Quagsire

Vileplume

 

B  Rank:

Absol

Ampharos

Blastoise

Hypno

Lanturn

Lapras

Misdreavus

Pikachu

Steelix

 

 

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the UU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame.

 

C Rank:

Claydol

Electabuzz

Electrode

Gligar

Grumpig

Hitmontop

Kabutops

Ninetales

Pinsir

Sharpedo

 

 

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the UU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

 

D Rank:

 

 

 

Note 1: Please point out any errors I have not tended to such as spelling errors and what not.

Note 2: I reserve the right to make changes to the viability thread's ranking understand certain circumstances. An inactive thread or a thread with little input won't provide much use to the competitive community in an ever-changing meta. When I need to step in to "revive" the thread, I will.

 

 

Big shout out and thank you to ThinkNice for doing a huge part in setting this thread up!

Edited December 6, 2016 by DrCraig
Updated.

[DrCraig]

Upon looking at my rough list, I may have been harsh or too leniant with some ranking. But hey, discussion am I right?

[spoiler]Need help with S[spoiler]Don't let this thread die.[/spoiler][/spoiler]

[Noad]

Nice list, possible discussions could be about Misdreavus being in C possibly? (I saw it doing some real work in the last tournament but others will know better than I)

 

Most surprised about Kangaskhan being in B but that is probably down to my lack of knowledge about UU and me focusing too much on usage stats. I shall go and hunt for a Kangaskhan thread, hope we have one. 

[Gunthug]

I think slowking has gotta be S.

 

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the UU metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon define the metagame.

 

Slowking is the pinnacle of UU right now. It can wall and stall with fantastic defensive bulk and instant recovery, but it can also sweep with the calm mind set - It fills each role extremely well, in my opinion, and deserves that S

 

I also think Vileplume deserves A+ at least, and may very well deserve an S rank for its role as a cleric that can still threaten offensively

 

Will get into this list more later, but really glad to see this thread coming to life

[OldKeith]

I'd chill out about Granbull. The low speed and special defense make it not the best option for a physical sweeper.

[XxxNILCxxX]

i think Kangaskhan should get more credit and be in the A rank maybe even the A+. Its stats and move set really makes it a big threat in uu.

Stats:

[spoiler]

 

[/spoiler]

[DrCraig]

I think slowking has gotta be S.

 

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the UU metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon define the metagame.

 

Slowking is the pinnacle of UU right now. It can wall and stall with fantastic defensive bulk and instant recovery, but it can also sweep with the calm mind set - It fills each role extremely well, in my opinion, and deserves that S

 

I also think Vileplume deserves A+ at least, and may very well deserve an S rank for its role as a cleric that can still threaten offensively

 

Will get into this list more later, but really glad to see this thread coming to life

Yea, I was debating personally about where to put Slowking, but its vulnerability to status really hurts it. (Yea, I use the status argument still)

It is a low risk pokemon to run and does wall most of the commonon, powerful threats. It does perform one role extremely well, but status.

I'm still up for A+ vs. S rank discussion for Slowking

 

Vileplume I see as set up bait for some threats, but also a great physical and special wall, the best cleric in my opinion, and has nice power again common threats. Its typing and base stats allow it to perform its cleric role exceptionally well. An A+ seems fitting, but I'd like to see other opinions also since I'm being vague right now. Busy editing and stuff, I wanted to drop in

 

 

I'd chill out about Granbull. The low speed and special defense make it not the best option for a physical sweeper.

Comparing it so Zangoose's sweeper set, Granbull can be equally as effective with bulk up, and still 2hkoing the majority of the meta. It has some more room to come in with intimidate but nevertheless it has poor defensive. Granbull is still one of the most dominant and effective leads in my opinion because of that movepool, stab, and ability. However..slow and frail unless you invest in the easily revenge killed powerhouse. And obligatory, more discussion?

 

 

i think Kangaskhan should get more credit and be in the A rank maybe even the A+. Its stats and move set really makes it a big threat in uu.

Stats:

[spoiler]

 

[/spoiler]

Yea I think I was a bit critical with Kangaskhan, the best fake out user, good coverage, good speed, early bird+rest, great bulk, and the normal STAB powa. I'll probably move this up soon..

[fredrichnietze]

slowking ---->S rank. it can literally wall nearly everything with the right set.

 

 

fearow---> B rank as outclassed by swellow

 

kangaskhan------>S rank as it is the best spec wall in UU

 

miltank-------> S rank. we have all seen it sweep entire teams with ease.

 

zangoose---->A+ it is the single best SD wall breaker in the tier

 

altaria------>A as phsyical wall

 

armaldo-------->A rank

 

cradilily--------->A- rank 

 

craudawnt------>B+ rank

 

sharpedo----> A rank

 

pika------>A rank best e speeder and it hits harder then medicham

 

shiftry------->B+

 

poliwrath------>A-

 

pinsir----->C

 

blastoise A-

 

EDIT oops didnt mean to quote the entire thing in final post. and i agree vileplume should be moved up. A+ 

Edited April 16, 2015 by fredrichnietze

[DrCraig]

This ass clown just quoted the whole thread.

 

Edit: Need a form of organization, tackle each pokemon with a discussion, not a vague "This to that." :) Probably should add this to OP

Edited April 16, 2015 by DrCraig

[fredrichnietze]

This ass clown just quoted the whole thread.

 

Edit: Need a form of organization, tackle each pokemon with a discussion, not a vague "This to that." :) Probably should add this to OP

i was going to make a good argument for each poke but the realized it would take hour + to ake the one post so maybe later?

[Poulpatine]

I  think that Crawdaunt deserves a better rank. With a DD and his two destructive stabs, I don't see a lot of pokemons able to handle it, especially in late game . It has also access to spowa to deal with things like umbreon or miltank, can run taunt to prevent things like blastoise to haze it. Breloom, (especially defensive version), and bulky poliwrath could handle his 2 stabs, but Crawdaunt can run AA to severely damage them. Hypper cutter is also a nice ability that prevents spam intimidation and things like charm umbreon to slow its sweep.

That said, it is quite difficult to set up, and weak to mach punch, but so does Zangoose I guess...

 

(it may also run SD in order to wall break, or maybe a CB set could be effective, even if i think DD is a better choice)

Edited April 16, 2015 by Poulpatine

[DrCraig]

Current Hot Topics

• Vileplume (Currently A  Rank)
• Kangaskhan (Currently A Rank)

 

 

Resources for Discussion

• Usage Statistics
• Damage Calculator *Subject to mechanic differences
• Smogon Pokedex *Subject to mechanic differences
• Synergy Pokedex

Added "Current Hot Topics" and "Resources for Discussion"

If anybody has any resources which are relevant, feel free to present it to me. :)

 

 

S Rank:

Slowking

 

A Rank:

Kangaskhan

Made the following quick changes

 

Slowking to S Rank

Kangaskhan to A Rank

 

Currently I would like to see discussion of Vileplume and Kangaskhan to fine tune their rankings

However you are not limited to the two, feel free to argue for other ranking moves, I will do my best to maintain this thread and read each response.

 

There's a lot of work to do!

Thanks guys!

Edited April 16, 2015 by DrCraig

[Kizhaz]

Is umbreon really scary enough for S rank. Isnt it just set up fodder?

[DrCraig]

I  think that Crawdaunt deserves a better rank. With a DD and his two destructive stabs, I don't see a lot of pokemons able to handle it, especially in late game . It has also access to spowa to deal with things like umbreon or miltank, can run taunt to prevent things like blastoise to haze it. Breloom, (especially defensive version), and bulky poliwrath could handle his 2 stabs, but Crawdaunt can run AA to severely damage them. Hypper cutter is also a nice ability that prevents spam intimidation and things like charm umbreon to slow its sweep.

That said, it is quite difficult to set up, and weak to mach punch, but so does Zangoose I guess...

 

(it may also run SD in order to wall break, or maybe a CB set could be effective, even if i think DD is a better choice)

Having the Dark typing kind of sucks because it gives those weaknesses, in which Kingler is far superior. I think Crawdaunt is tough to set up, and fits the

 

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the UU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. These Pokemon exert an above average presence in the metagame.

 

Where it needs support to function because it is difficult to get in and work it effectively. One DD/Salac doesn't outspeed the tier either. which is bad for it when it gets checked more often than its parallel, Kingler.

Just really needs support.

 

 

Is umbreon really scary enough for S rank. Isnt it just set up fodder?

Top tier wall pretty much. It walls, pretty much, the whole Special side of the UU tier, mostly because of the lack of powerful special attackers. It also pursuit traps, charms, wishes, cleric and passes around status which most walls cannot all do. Has access to instant recovery as well as Wish support. It walls and supports extremely well and carrying around an Umbreon is low risk because of all of the positives it has going for it. Yes it can be a set up fodder, but I don't think to that extreme to which it should be moved around. Although offense is popular, Umbreon can take on the majority of tier through walling and giving support if you check Usage.

[DrCraig]

Alright gotta get a ball rolling

 

• Does Kangaskhan fit well at A Rank? Should it be higher or is it sitting snug as of now?

 

• I feel like Vileplume is a solid A, anybody disagree and would like to see it moved up?

 

• Opinions on Miltank?  Should it be considered as moving up to A+ or S?

 

• Would it be appropriate to move Shiftry up from C Rank to B Rank? Why?

 

• Pikachu is very frail, needs that support to come in but is a menace once it manages to get space. It hits hard, has a nice movepool with its event moves at its side. Is the fate of Pikachu in B, B+ or A?

 

 

[spoiler]It's not homework, I swear.[/spoiler]

Edited April 16, 2015 by DrCraig

[OrangeManiac]

Alright gotta get a ball rolling

 

• Does Kangaskhan fit well at A Rank? Should it be higher or is it sitting snug as of now?

Kanga sure is good but not like it can absolutely destroy your team unless you teambuild against (unlike some of the high rank pokes). Definitely high offensive presence, but I agree with A rank.

• I feel like Vileplume is a solid A, anybody disagree and would like to see it moved up?

Solid A.

• Opinions on Miltank?  Should it be considered as moving up to A+ or S?

S rank. Curse set is scary asf and will destroy an unprepared team. Even a prepared team has barely shots against this scary cow, Curse protects the only weakness it has - fight-type - and Heal Bell mono-attacker could ruin the hopes of having Toxic ruining the Miltank sweep.
 

• Would it be appropriate to move Shiftry up from C Rank to B Rank? Why?

I think Shiftry is B rank. Leaf Blade + Faint Attack + Explosion CB combo is legit and causes significantly amount of damage but same time can be mixed, SubSeed and is just quite diverse.
 

• Pikachu is very frail, needs that support to come in but is a menace once it manages to get space. It hits hard, has a nice movepool with its event moves at its side. Is the fate of Pikachu in B, B+ or A?

Pikachu to me is A rank. It can easily sweep and thanks to Extremespeed a lot of priority users will have trouble against it. Especially because of the lack of team preview and HP gets low, Pikachu can easily sweep the table.

 

[spoiler]It's not homework, I swear.[/spoiler]

[felix]

 

fearow---> B rank as outclassed by swellow

I do agree with that, Swellow outclasses Fearow easily, it is fast, has better ability and some moveset coverage wise, except that Fearow has Drill Peck which is a better flying stab move but, in the end doesn't make that difference

[DrCraig]

Whiscash added to B Rank.

[DrCraig]

Wow, dead thread is dead.

I made some changes based off in-game feedback and replies above:

 

Miltank moved up from A Rank to S Rank.

Little risk to running the Curse set. It doesn't need much support and has a range of pokemon it can come in on and set up on. After 1 Curse Miltank becomes pretty unstoppable and the opponent must revert to checking it. It pressures team building because of the positives it has going for it. Little Snorlax fits in S. Disagree? Post.

 

Fearow moved down from A+ Rank to A Rank.

Slower than Swellow. Has a STAB drill peck. Seems nonsensical to have Fearow in the same rank as Swellow so I moved it down from A+ to A where it fits fine, as pointed out above.

 

Pikachu moved up from B Rank to B+ Rank.

I'm not buying it as an A rank. Would like to see reasoning to make the jump.

[fredrichnietze]

Pikachu moved up from B Rank to B+ Rank.

I'm not buying it as an A rank. Would like to see reasoning to make the jump.

um pika lonely or naughty with light ball + espeed can act as a wall breaker with att stat higher then medicham, but can use e speed to clean up dnite style with no cb lock. it has high enough speed to beat nearly everything not a sweeper and the sweepers are all fragile. 

[DrCraig]

Discussion to Sceptile's placement is open. An initial placement will probably be made following the next UU official. It can be fined tuned from that point on, assuming it remains UU.

Edited April 20, 2015 by DrCraig

[OrangeManiac]

I'd rank Sceptile S. It has some massive sweeping potential, it's very fast and Overgrow Leaf Blade hurts. Sub + SD Overgrow makes switching out usually a huge risk. It has limited amount of counters if you consider a special sweeping Hidden Power set but that's inferior to physical imo. There Vileplume is the only idiotproof counter. Altaria can use Sceptile as a set-up bait if it has HP Ice Scouted, same goes for Scizor with HP Fire scouted away. (easier said than done though) And that's pretty much everything viable I could come up with stopping Sceptile out cold. Meanwhile I do think Sceptile has the sweep potential.

Edit: Exe works pretty well also but still.

Edited April 20, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[richardbenzina]

We spoked a little bit in global about granbull, but maybe we should continue here,
In a metagame where heavy physical attackers are more and more frequents , granbull -with a 75 base defense- can't be considered an A+ comp, at least anymore.
Surely intimidate helps a lot , but his 45 base speed makes him an easy kill .
Since his speed his speed is so low, his most used move set is bulk up, surely a good move , but not on a pokemon with 60 base special defense and with a lack of recovery moves except rest.
And even if someone consideres bulk up a nice move on grambull , it is outclassed by hitmontop, with his 110 base special defense and
90 base defense. Moreover hitmontop has also a priority stab move (mach punch) and has intimidate too.
There are also some new special attacker that can counter granbull, like manectric exeggutor and houndoom.
Finally , the move superpower -with 120 base damage- is really used nowdays and a lot of pokemons can learn it giving big problems to this dog.

Sorry if i made mistakes but i am not the best the english speaker :c

[DoubleJ]

We spoked a little bit in global about granbull, but maybe we should continue here,
In a metagame where heavy physical attackers are more and more frequents , granbull -with a 75 base defense- can't be considered an A+ comp, at least anymore.
Surely intimidate helps a lot , but his 45 base speed makes him an easy kill .
Since his speed his speed is so low, his most used move set is bulk up, surely a good move , but not on a pokemon with 60 base special defense and with a lack of recovery moves except rest.
And even if someone consideres bulk up a nice move on grambull , it is outclassed by hitmontop, with his 110 base special defense and
90 base defense. Moreover hitmontop has also a priority stab move (mach punch) and has intimidate too.
There are also some new special attacker that can counter granbull, like manectric exeggutor and houndoom.
Finally , the move superpower -with 120 base damage- is really used nowdays and a lot of pokemons can learn it giving big problems to this dog.

Sorry if i made mistakes but i am not the best the english speaker :c

 

The unfortunate thing about thinking about theory vs practice is that you lose probably 75% of the criteria. The reason why Granbull is an A+ comp is because of its raw power and the pressure it puts on its opponents. 

 

With Intimidate, there are few things that both outspeed it and kill it. Sure Superpower is an incredible option, but realistically how many viable pokemon in UU carry Superpower that Granbull would be willing to stay in against? Donphan maybe. Otherwise Granbull is instantly switching out to a more reasonable counter to that Superpower.

 

The other reason for Granbull being such an amazing pokemon is STAB Double-Edge, which OHKO's quite a few many pokemon. This eliminates any frail special attacker that could switch in and hope to hurt this pup. Although if Granbull is at low health this might not matter. 

 

Nevertheless Granbull is an incredible lead. With Ghost-types seeing little use in UU, Jolly CB Granbull can open lead and spam Double-Edge, hurting anything that either stays in or switches out. Intimidate and decent special bulk give Granbull enough defense to survive everything save a CB or STAB Superpower, which means it will kill you if it can. Access to Crunch, Fire Punch, and Earthquake means that it has perfect coverage on the tier. 

 

idk, I can keep naming reasons for it being A+, but I think that's enough. Granbull is a monster. 

[DrCraig]

Due to recent bans:

-Umbreon has been removed from the UU tier and list

 

-Miltank has been removed from the UU tier and list

 

 

Also:

-I have moved Xatu to B+ Rank due to the relief of its strongest counter. Any objections or suggestions for moves higher, please speak up.

 

-Since Umbreon and Miltank had a strong impact on the meta I think a few other pokemon should be moved around, such as Haunter.

 

 

Discuss! :)

Edited April 24, 2015 by DrCraig