Opinions on new breeding?

[Melerickk]

You can find eevees/tyrogue in the wild

 

Okay, i didn't knows.

I began the game 2/3 days ago.
That's why when i discovered the breeding mindfuck, i just got crazy...

 

 

But even with wild evee/tyrogue, that didn't change the problem about IV, genetic skills, and loosing pokemons what we trained...

[Gilan]

the problem about IV, genetic skills, and loosing pokemons what we trained...

IV:

 

Solved through the new breeding with braces. If you breed correctly you will combine two lesser IV sum pokemon into one greater IV sum pokemon.

 

Genetic Skills:

 

?

 

Losing Pokemon that you trained:

 

If a pokemon you trained needs to be bred, then you probably shouldn't have trained it in the first place...

 

[spoiler]

:ph34r: no one saw me  :ph34r:

[/spoiler]

Edited April 9, 2015 by Gilan

[kakaloto]

The breeding from the original games is akin to cloning, which really doesn't work in an MMO environment with an economy.

 The new system is more like cloning considering the random element has been taken out. Now it's all about managing a pile of averages. Zzzzz

[Rache]

 The new system is more like cloning considering the random element has been taken out. Now it's all about managing a pile of averages. Zzzzz

Cloning is making copies of something, which was a large part of the old breeding system - you would put in a couple of Pokemon and produce more and more of them. Now, since the parents are being taken away, copies are not being made so it is not cloning at all.

[kakaloto]

Cloning is making copies of something, which was a large part of the old breeding system - you would put in a couple of Pokemon and produce more and more of them. Now, since the parents are being taken away, copies are not being made so it is not cloning at all.

I caught that. What I meant is that the random element from the old system, (up to +3 down to -8), made them less like clones and more like actual offspring. Under this system there is *no* random element.

Edited April 9, 2015 by kakaloto

[Rache]

I caught that. What I was saying is that the random element from the old system, (up to +3 down to -8), made them less like clones and more like actual offspring. Under this system there is *no* random element.

Semi-random or not, you were still producing clones of the mother's species. You put in two Eevees, you got an Eevee egg, you then had three Eevees. From those same Eevee parents, you could create hundreds more of them, which is without a doubt cloning.

 

Additionally, there actually is a degree of randomness in the current system, most notable in which IVs will directly pass - even if braces are used, there will always be IVs selected at random to pass (as three will always pass and you can only use up to two braces per egg). The nature will be random if no Everstone is attached too, and if one is attached, that's one less brace and therefore one more IV pass being chosen at random. Granted, it's less random than the old system, but there is definitely a random element.

[kakaloto]

"Reproduction" is the word you're looking for :P

[Gilan]

"Reproduction" is the word you're looking for :P

Clone:
a person or thing that duplicates, imitates, or closely resembles another in appearance, function, performance, or style.

You were cloning in the last breeding system. You had 2 pokemon that could make infinite of the same pokemon, with near or exactly the same stats, especially in the case of two 6x31 parents.

[Kizhaz]

So. My personnal feeling about the breeding...
Wrong.
Lemme explain:


1: Reducing population.
Breeding is suppose to make some babies. Create new pokemon, improve the population.
In order to upgrade the pokedex, trade with friends/people.
Actually, it's a 2 -> 1.

Specially in the case of Evee and Tyrogue.
 

In an MMO environment, the only population we're trying to increase is the playerbase. Any increase in competitive pokemon changes the trade market drastically

2: Lock casual breeding.
Not every peoples are hardcore breeders, and I can talk on this, because i'm like this.
For me, and for so many people, having some good IV is hard. Really trully hard, even with 4 IV taken from parents.
That's why standar breeding is hard, and why we prefer to make some trade with real breeders and get competitiv pokemon from them...

But now... only 3 IV are taken, and only 1 baby can be took from a couple...
Then Trading gonna die + casual breeders can't even try to make some good pokemon...
 

It's actually not hard, i'll give you costly and to an extent time consuming, but not hard. Whats wrong with buying competitive pokemon? As for your last 2 lines, the old system also had only 3 IV's pass soooo, also casual breeders can try, they just don't. btw whats your definition of a casual breeder? Because from my view point it is someone that does not care about breeding competitives in which case there would be no problem

3: Now, you can Add even more factors on this...

-Like having a good nature type, in addition of IV.
-Getting genetical skills, in addition of IV + nature.

-Having a sex that you want, in add of IV + nature + skills  (yes, i'm perfectionist, i prefer to get special species on male, and special one on female...)

And, finally, i'm not a true fan... But i can easily think some people wants Shiney...
And if you add this low ratio factor again, the breeding is just impossible.
 

-thats good

-also good

-couldn't do that before so even better

 

wait what? I'm not sure what your trying to complain about here, we have always needed to do all these things in any breeding method, whether it be the current or the original from cartridge. And on top of this your complaining about the shiny chance as well... that isn't even to do with breeding. If you came to an mmo to breed a godly comp that is also shiny for little to no effort... I have some bad news for you.

That's why i think everything gone wrong about breed.

Thanks to read, kiss everyone. Ciaaa.

[Bashwastaken]

I started playing after the new system was introduced and i really love it! By what I understood, the new system has more control over the offspring while breeding. I love it! Plus it's easy to understand BUT...

 

Genderless pokemons... *sigh* Dittos are a uguu to catch AND they can't be bred! As far as i have seen, ppl's issue with the new system is confirming IVs and well, the whole grinding part. My ONLY concern is with the genderless pokemons. I like my own OT sign on pokemons and believe me.. i really tried to breed staryu but after wasting ~150k and getting nowhere, I bought it and I absolutely HATE that I am not the OT.

 

This guide helped me a lot! But there are no guides on breeding genderless pokemons and yeah.. I still can't figure it out...

Edited April 9, 2015 by Bashwastaken

[codylramey]

I started playing after the new system was introduced and i really love it! By what I understood, the new system has more control over the offspring while breeding. I love it! Plus it's easy to understand BUT...

 

Genderless pokemons... *sigh* Dittos are a uguu to catch AND they can't be bred! As far as i have seen, ppl's issue with the new system is confirming IVs and well, the whole grinding part. My ONLY concern is with the genderless pokemons. I like my own OT sign on pokemons and believe me.. i really tried to breed staryu but after wasting ~150k and getting nowhere, I bought it and I absolutely HATE that I am not the OT.

 

This guide helped me a lot! But there are no guides on breeding genderless pokemons and yeah.. I still can't figure it out...

There is no method. Take godly ditto and godly genderless pokes, make a sacrifice to the RNG gods and pray it was enough to get a good poke.

[Gilan]

I started playing after the new system was introduced and i really love it! By what I understood, the new system has more control over the offspring while breeding. I love it! Plus it's easy to understand BUT...
 
Genderless pokemons... *sigh* Dittos are a uguu to catch AND they can't be bred! As far as i have seen, ppl's issue with the new system is confirming IVs and well, the whole grinding part. My ONLY concern is with the genderless pokemons. I like my own OT sign on pokemons and believe me.. i really tried to breed staryu but after wasting ~150k and getting nowhere, I bought it and I absolutely HATE that I am not the OT.
 
This guide helped me a lot! But there are no guides on breeding genderless pokemons and yeah.. I still can't figure it out...

This is why I advocated for being able to breed dittos together.

[DoctorPBC]

Ok pro idea

 

instead of one egg you get two

 

one is always male, one is always female

 

that way you can keep improving and sell the less valuable one.... or breed them and keep trying to UP ivs.

 

Screws the economy less, you dont need to buy 5 breeders to get through one comp and you get something to sell at the end

[Rache]

Ok pro idea

 

instead of one egg you get two

 

one is always male, one is always female

 

that way you can keep improving and sell the less valuable one.... or breed them and keep trying to UP ivs.

 

Screws the economy less, you dont need to buy 5 breeders to get through one comp and you get something to sell at the end

It's still cloning, and almost completely undermines the new system. You catch something rare (let's say, Eevee) and a lot of Dittos, which are common. You breed your Eevee with a Ditto and you get two Eevees. You breed each of the offspring with a Ditto, and you now have four Eevees. It kills species rarity again.

 

The point of the new system is that it's a refinement process rather than literal reproduction. Turning a few decent Pokemon into one good one.

[DrCraig]

31 speed, being the necessity it is, is a big pain in the ass unless you use preupdate stuff. Speed, being the most important, is tough to consistently obtain. I know its the whole "work and get rewarded" thing but really you can only do so much with wild catching.

[kakaloto]

Clone:
a person or thing that duplicates, imitates, or closely resembles another in appearance, function, performance, or style.

You were cloning in the last breeding system. You had 2 pokemon that could make infinite of the same pokemon, with near or exactly the same stats, especially in the case of two 6x31 parents.

It's just the semantics that are bugging me here. So we're all clones of our parents? The pokes I would breed under the old system were all clones despite varying greatly in IVs, nature and ability? I'm an uncle because my sister made 2 clones? I got why you were calling it cloning the first time, but our pokes were reproducing, not cloning. Now they fuse. This is what a clone is: An organism or cell, or group of organisms/cells that was produced asexually from one ancestor to which they are genetically identical.

 

 I personally never had any 6x31s from the breeding system. If anything they seemed more common the last time I played. Made one myself with the fusion system and it was easy, costly and boring.

[Snarguffle]

If you can now catch eevee, tyrogue, even STARTERS in the wild, that also undermines their rarity. At least you would have had to trade for the other two starters before.

 

Breeding is SUPPOSED to be reproduction, not refinement or fusion.

[kakaloto]

Exactly. Now how great would it be if we had the old system- but magically it didnt cause inflation, (or maybe there could be npc buy orders for pokes of certain type/quality, I know it wont come back just spitballin')

[adhmn4]

Hello again everybody  :)

I left this game a while ago as well as the forum in hopes of that when i come back you all would have realized what was my/our (breeders)  point of view and how we felt and why we felt that way about the new breeding system, but i guess i was wrong cuz there still the same opinion on how the new system rocks and the old system sucks even with the economy is ripped more than ever and the breeding centers are almost deserted.

don't get me wrong the most of the new system really rocks over the old one because we have a better control on the outcome better than ever

i personally never got 6x31 or even 5x31 breeder before but now i do.

the thing is the two parents thing is really to much for me/us to take or let go .. the overall process is not worth it at all.

i get it that almost all of you (comp players and etc.. ) don't really care about breeding itself you all look for the final result which is a good comp pokemon to battle/brag with. so this whole process is really just a refinement to you. you don't care how its done but rather it can be done. that's your opinion and we should all respect that, but you also should have respected that there are breeders out there who would rather like a breeding process over a refinement process, you should have respected that is a pokemon game not a gear game like WoW or rune escape or Metal Gear soldier or what so ever you got the idea of this refinement MMORPG from .. there is alot of MMORPG games out there each have its unique way of getting the economy up and running while maintain the main aspects of the game as it should be. imagine we went to WoW blacksmith and insted of refining the armor we ended up with 2 chest instead of 1 ? or we are playing yu gi oh online and when we use the fusion card we ended up with just one monster which cant go back to the original cards  ? that would be a super cool isn't it ? no it isn't .. we cant use some game logic in another because each has its unique way.

now the cause of all this we had a problem before which was the economy and some (don't really know anyone else except devs ) said that the species rarity were in grave danger .. if there is anything else we should know about then please be my guest.

the current system made the economy much worth and while there isn't a breeding anymore for cloning which wasn't a cloning in the first place the species are now available in the wild to catch so there isn't a rarity anymore its just a matter of how and how long will it take.

we wanted a fix for 2 problems we ended up with more than the double if i'm not wrong.

1- the economy sucks

2- genderless breeding is impossible

3- TMs are now officially dead

4- breeders either quieting or just wondering around looking for something to do

5- chain-breeding isn't worth it anymore 

6- if i'm not mistaken the comp scene are dead as well (maybe i'm wrong i don't really follow this path)

 

i really tried that system as i mentioned before and its really awesome except for the parents part as i said. i gave it more than a shot so i'm really positive about how i feel about it.

 

if we agreed on the above and you hopefully now open minded to other suggestions we could open up a new thread made specially for suggestions about breeding and how can we fix it .. other wise it would be a waste of time to continue arguing about it while it goes only up to the devs to deiced which is best for all of us

[Arimanius]

Hello again everybody  :)
I left this game a while ago as well as the forum

I stopped reading there..

[adhmn4]

I stopped reading there..

 

Good for you :)  it was boring anyway  :D  ;)

[DrCraig]

I don't think the problem is the format itself, it's not unattractive it's just very inaccessible to new players and even some old players. It doesn't matter how much you 'support' Doubles, or you'd have to make Doubles more popular than OU. People are always going to prefer making Pokémon for Single battles because there are three tiers you can play in Singles, there will always be more people playing Singles, most tournament will be Singles, selling Singles Pokémon and buying Singles Pokémon is much easier.

The grind in this game, is a lot. And I know DarkShade has said multiple times that they think it works fine right now, well it does. If you focus on one tier it's ok. But our playerbase, especially our competitive player base is very small. Then we are dividing it even more by having multiple playable tiers/formats that players have to focus on. It is literally impossible to grind for every single tier in this game. I guess that's okay, because this is an MMO and you have to 'specialize' in 'talents'. But then this will happen. Some tiers will just be dead and won't be able to come alive. This applies for NU and the Doubles format.

Especially for Doubles that needs different EVs, different natures and different movesets. It is hard to make it popular. Even if you have the money it's much easier to find Pokémon suited for Singles than Pokémon suited for Doubles, which again makes Doubles fall in popularity.

tl;dr: It's not about Doubles, it's about how this game is designed.

This was in regards to the feedback on doubles thread. The thread is basically discussing trying to popularize doubles and I would like people in thread to read ThinkNices post. The grind game makes it unattractive to do multiple tier in PokeMMOs endgame, competitive play. Edited April 10, 2015 by DrCraig

[Gilan]

This was in regards to the feedback on doubles thread. The thread is basically discussing trying to popularize doubles and I would like people in thread to read ThinkNices post. The grind game makes it unattractive to do multiple tier in PokeMMOs endgame, competitive play.

see... I bred quite a bit, and I never found that it was an insane amount of grind... 6 pokemon would take me about 2 weeks of moderate play every day... I don't think that's bad. And EV training is a lot less grindy than it used to be... Especially with 100% golbat encounter in Hoenn, speed eving takes no longer than 30mins. I think the only grind-lowering things that should happen are:
1. Alternative method to money making (doesn't actually reduce grind, but makes it more bearable)
2. Confirmed IVs (which has already been confirmed).

Therefore I agree with DS, it's fine as is.

The real issue that you guys need to focus on, is fixing the current market. As of right now, only the lower end of the quality of pokemon are being traded a lot (the breeding material). The higher end is still traded, but at a very low frequency (as far as I could tell). But fixing this issue without making comps so easy to get and maintaining species rarity is the real challenge.

edit:

which is why I agree with Cody. I think a Grand Exchange system would be an important factor in fixing the issue. Edited April 10, 2015 by Gilan

[Snarguffle]

Who wants to grind for two weeks before they can battle?

 

Unless a species is impossible to catch in the wild AND unable to breed, like a legendary, it won't be rare. Every player who wants one that's competitively viable will have one, eventually. Species rarity is moot.

 

With the older breeding system, it would be easier to breed for multiple tiers, as it was easier to breed multiple competitive pokemon of the same species once you had one.

[Gilan]

Who wants to grind for two weeks before they can battle?

And this is why PokeMMO might not be right for you.

 

2 weeks is nothing to get into the end-game of an MMO.

 

 

Unless a species is impossible to catch in the wild AND unable to breed, like a legendary, it won't be rare. Every player who wants one that's competitively viable will have one, eventually. Species rarity is moot.

Well... If it is impossible to catch in the wild and it is unable to breed, then it simply wouldn't exist... It's rarity would be infinite... The point of species rarity is that some pokemon will be harder to obtain than others. Prime example are the genderless pokemon. They are harder to find in the market with desirable stats.

 

 

With the older breeding system, it would be easier to breed for multiple tiers, as it was easier to breed multiple competitive pokemon of the same species once you had one.

yes, you're right, it would be easier. But it has drastic effects on the MMO environment in the long run...

Edited April 10, 2015 by Gilan