Why do we use level 50s?

[codylramey]

Just like the title says. Is there an actual resaon we use level 50s and round down any poke thats past that instead of using level 100s and round up any pokemon that is level 50 or higher? Does anyone think that we should have level 100 instead of 50s? There are slight differences in the two

Edited March 27, 2015 by codylramey

[CyrusZathen]

Tournament mode of course Mr. SmartyPants :P

[JIceJDragon]

laziness

[Deejaye]

pretty sure because back in the day, when leveling was hard, getting to 50 became the standard, and then it was just so set in stone that it just seemed logical to make all the pvp elements be about setting it to 50

or some shit ///shrug

[XXbrainjuiceXX]

^this

[codylramey]

Also i want to ask, and ill updat OP, does anyone think we should change tournament mode to be lvl 100s instead of 50. There are slight differences in the two.

[Rigamorty]

because old habits die hard

[DoubleJ]

The thought of leveling all my comps would put me in the grave. And that's just the thought of it.

[Vaeldras]

Because it takes an unreasonable amount of time to lvl 100, what else do you need?

Seriously, i prefer legendary thread to this, someone might take you seriously.

[BurntZebra]

and VGC tournaments have the level 50 scale down, gotta be official

[Senile]

Just like the title says. Is there an actual resaon we use level 50s and round down any poke thats past that instead of using level 100s and round up any pokemon that is level 50 or higher? Does anyone think that we should have level 100 instead of 50s? There are slight differences in the two

Because rounding up any pokemon that is 50 or higher doesn't make any sense, it's completely arbitrary, why don't all pokemon just round to 100? It's rounded down to level 50 for two reasons:

 

1: Staff didn't want to round it up, they want leveling to matter, but didn't want to force Level 100.

 

2: 50's was standard before level rounding, BECAUSE nobody wanted 100's. Since 50's was standard, but some things (Dnite/TTar and some moves) couldn't be gotten without going past 50, rounding down to 50 made perfect sense.

 

3: It's ridiculous that comps got insanely devalued for being just 1 level too high.

 

Since they needed to do rounding, but didn't want to round to 100, the natural answer was flat 50's. It was already the standard, and it prevents the "rounding up" issue.

[codylramey]

Nobody said anything about forceing people to lvl to 100. If they rounded every pokemon to 100 after hitting level 50 then you would only have to level to 50 in most cases. The reason you would still have to level to 50 instead of rounding up all pokemon is to make leveling still matter.

 

Perhaps Im not asking my question clear enough. There is a differece in two pokemon that are level 100 and two that are 50. Damage output is slightly changed, difference in IVs make a bigger difference (apparently at level 50 30 speed is no different than 31), and it takes 8 evs to make 1 point stat difference, according to a game faqs forum i read on the subject, which means we can have twice the influence on how our pokemons stats look and differ at lvl 100 than 50 if thats true. And there could be other differences that i dont know about, was hoping senile would be kind enough to shine some light on that,

 

So what i am basically am asking is is there a point to having pokemon stay at level 50 and get rounded down when they pass that level or would it make more sense to have pokemon rounded up after they hit level 50. To me it seems like evs having double the effect (if that is really how it works) would be enough to consider the level 100 system.

Edited March 27, 2015 by codylramey

[OldKeith]

difference in IVs make a bigger difference (apparently at level 50 30 speed is no different than 31)

 

False.

 

While the damage output is slightly different, this part is just wrong.

Edited March 27, 2015 by OldKeith

[londark]

[font=comic sans ms']Tournament mode of course Mr. SmartyPants :P[/font]

[Spoiler]
[/Spoiler]

False.

He probably means it's the same for pokes running 0 Spd EVs, but in general there is quite the difference beetwen 30 and 31 speed....

Also, at level 100 some speed "tiers" Change....like +252 Salac Magneton can't outspeed Aero Speed Tier Edited March 27, 2015 by londark

[OrangeManiac]

Yeah like Keith and Londar noted, that is false. The EVs work that at level 50 if your IV is odd (i.e. 31) then 4/12/20/28/36 ..... 252 will raise it by 1 stat. While if IV is odd (i.e. 30) 8/16/24/32 ...... 248 EVs will raise it a stat. Therefor 30 EVs will not get the final stat raise and therefor 31 does matter. (So at 0/8/16/24/32 etc. EVs your IV will appear as 30-31 and therefor seems like it doesn't matter)

Basically with correct EVing you can maximize the stats from IVs at lv 50 by adding the amount of EVs depending if it's odd/even while if we were at level 100s 4 EVs raises one stat by one. Therefor IVs would be directly causing stats at lv 100 but the difference is so minimum. Also I see nothing wrong with playing in 50s, it's an old habit but hey if it isn't broken why fix that. And like Londar said, it would ruin some speed tiers also which isn't very nice that your purpose of the set could be ruined with lv 100 speed tiers (like Salac Magneton, for example).

Edited March 27, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[codylramey]

Yeah like Keith and Londar noted, that is false. The EVs work that at level 50 if your IV is odd (i.e. 31) then 4/12/20/28/36 ..... 252 will raise it by 1 stat. While if IV is odd (i.e. 30) 8/16/24/32 ...... 248 EVs will raise it a stat. Therefor 30 EVs will not get the final stat raise and therefor 31 does matter. (So at 0/8/16/24/32 etc. EVs your IV will appear as 30-31 and therefor seems like it doesn't matter)

If what you said here is true then how is it that the statement "it takes 8 evs to raise ur stat by 1 point" false. Every 4,12,20,28,36 and 8,16,24,32 evs rais ur stat by 1 depending on if the iv is even or odd. There is a 8 EV point difference in those numbers. And if we can get 1 stat point per 4 EVs doesnt that mean that the EVs would be twice as effective at lvl 100? Which means we would be able to have double the effect on how our pokemon stats are buit?

 

I realize its all realitive; you can add twice the bulk to a lvl 100 wall but you can also add twice the atk to a lvl 100 sweeper. In that sense it doesnt really make a difference. But im thinking of pokemans who you split EVs on. Pokemon who gets a lil bulk, a lil speed, and a lil attacking power. Or mixed attackers who adds a lil in atk and spcl atk. Wouldnt EVing these type of pokemon be much more effective if we were at lvl 100 or am I looking at this in a totally skewed way?

Edited March 27, 2015 by codylramey

[OldKeith]

If what you said here is true then how is it that the statement "it takes 8 evs to raise ur stat by 1 point" false. Every 4,12,20,28,36 and 8,16,24,32 evs rais ur stat by 1 depending on if the iv is even or odd. There is a 8 EV point difference in those numbers. And if we can get 1 stat point per 4 EVs doesnt that mean that the EVs would be twice as effective at lvl 100? Which means we would be able to have double the effect on how our pokemon stats are buit?

 

I realize its all realitive; you can add twice the bulk to a lvl 100 wall but you can also add twice the atk to a lvl 100 sweeper. In that sense it doesnt really make a difference. But im thinking of pokemans who you split EVs on. Pokemon who gets a lil bulk, a lil speed, and a lil attacking power. Or mixed attackers who adds a lil in atk and spcl atk. Wouldnt EVing these type of pokemon be much more effective if we were at lvl 100 or am I looking at this in a totally skewed way?

 

 

Clearly you have no understanding of how the core mechanics of stats work, which makes your thread even less relevant. A level 50 odd IV changes after 4,12, 20 etc EVs. An even IV changes after 8, 16, 24, 32 etc.

 

As for EVs doubling the bulk of level 50, what the...? You realise all other stats are also doubled, not only those added by the EVs, so the actual damage output differs only a little. My advice to you would be to do a bit of reading to understand how EVs and IVs work, and the formula they abide by.

 

Example:

Gengar Timid 252 Satk 252 Speed SLUDGE BOMB vs Gardevoir Timid 252 Satk 252 Speed:

Level 50: 69 - 82 (48.3% - 57.3%)

Level 100: 132 - 156 (47.7% - 56.3%)

 

As you see, the difference is minimal.

[Munya]

Also i want to ask, and ill updat OP, does anyone think we should change tournament mode to be lvl 100s instead of 50. There are slight differences in the two.

 

Because then people would have a free way to duel with level 100s instead of putting the effort into level to 100.

EDIT: Oh, senile covered that, well.

[codylramey]

Am i like not explaining my question clear enough. So lets do baby steps, you have double the EVs to put into a lvl 100 than a lvl 50. While technically you still have the same amount of EVs on the lvl 50s it takes twwice as much EVs to impact ur poke. So the first part of my qquestion is am i wrong about this? Is my logic behind this not sound?

[OldKeith]

Am i like not explaining my question clear enough. So lets do baby steps, you have double the EVs to put into a lvl 100 than a lvl 50. While technically you still have the same amount of EVs on the lvl 50s it takes twwice as much EVs to impact ur poke. So the first part of my qquestion is am i wrong about this? Is my logic behind this not sound?

 

Yes, it is not sound, and my calculation proves that there is not much difference in level 50s or level 100s in the damage output (level 50s do more damage, a tiny bit more).

 

You are right that you get double the EVing for a level 100 than you get for a level 50. But the rest of their stats are also doubled anyway.

Another Example:

 

On a Gengar Timid 0 Special Attack EVs: 

150 Satk at level 50, 296 at level 100

 

On a Gengar Timid 252 Special Attack EVs:

182 Satk at level 50, 359 at level 100

 

The thing is that the formula remains the same, but (roughly) everything is just divided by 2 at level 50, in comparison to level 100. Hope that makes things more clear for you.

 

TL;DR - the impact is the same

Edited March 27, 2015 by OldKeith

[Shaniqualela]

There's a few differences in level 50 that are cool IMO.
Slightly more damage (walls are better in 100s, very slightly)
Poliwrath (and others with same base) can beat base 130s after salac, where in 100s it is 1 point under

[codylramey]

I just ran a calc on showdown to see first hand what evs look like at lvl 50 vs 100. I just realize that not only does the value of the evs go up at level 100 but the gap inbetween two different pokemons stats go up too. For example there is a 20 point difference in the speed of weezing and rhydon at level 50 and a 40 point difference at level 100. This is what was making this whole thing not make any sense to me. I thought that bc the value of evs doubleing meant that at level 100 we would essentually have 126 more stat points to play with. But since the stat gap increases with level to it all stays realitive,

[DrCraig]

It's all proportional, why does this matter?

[codylramey]

It's all proportional, why does this matter?

Bc i was under the impression that, using my weezing and rhydon example, I would be able to outseepd an uninvested weezing with only 84 speed ivs instead of 164. That leaves 80 IVs that can go elsewhere mainly health instead of 40 some. Not only was i under the impression that i would have double the EVs to invest elsewhere but they would also have double the effect. But since everything, including the stat gap, is proportional then none of that is true.

Edited March 28, 2015 by codylramey

[DrCraig]

Alright.
Everybody train all of your comps to lvl 100, this totally is going to be worth your time, it's only couple days/weeks of grinding.