fredrichnietze Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) at first i was all "normal only move coverage sucks" but then i realized theif is actually viable (thanks keith) and ofc linoone outspeeds all the ghost. the steels ofc still counter linoone but they get trapped by diglette and still take a big chunk from iron tail/e speed/flail. base stats 78/70/61/50/61/100 *fixed ty gunthug viable moves b drum espeed iron tail theif (remember 60 power) dig (except ofc steels hit it hard with EQ if you dig) flail sub viable ev spreads include max hp/att adamant (leftovers or sitrus) and max speed/att jolly (sitrus or salac) discus Edited March 21, 2015 by fredrichnietze Havsha and DestructX 2 Link to comment
DrCraig Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Diglett is poo Steelix is the most used pokemon ehh..I dont want to write..sorry Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Diglett is poo Steelix is the most used pokemon ehh..I dont want to write..sorry and steelix just so happens to get trapped by wynaut+diglett+magnemite Link to comment
OldKeith Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Clearly uncompetitive, it has no place in UU imo. Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Those base stats are wrong fixed and thankyou. i always forget bulbapedia order=/=pokedex order Link to comment
OldKeith Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 About ghosts, on one hand, Haunter outspeeds Linoone, assuming Lin runs bulk. On the other hand, it dies to Pursuit from about anything. Link to comment
Gunthug Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 and steelix just so happens to get trapped by wynaut+diglett+magnemite Also it would appear that magneton may be coming down next UU usage update, which legitimately concerns me with regards to pokes that are only really checked by steels like linoone There's always the chance that mag jumps in Ou usage and doesn't come down but, food for thought Link to comment
OldKeith Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The only other Steel type that can potentially stop Linoone is Aggron - only if it runs Earthquake to stop Dig. And it has been shown that with the attacking power of current UUs, they get worn out fast. Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 The only other Steel type that can potentially stop Linoone is Aggron - only if it runs Earthquake to stop Dig. And it has been shown that with the attacking power of current UUs, they get worn out fast. i would like to point out that if linoone has dig you could switch to a levitate/flying pokemon on the dig turn and get off a hit when it surfaces. obvs this requires knowledge off did + a pokemon that forces dig so extremely situation, but it's a draw back. Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 So ban Linoone? It's pretty obvious that stab +6 attack +2 priority is still filthy. Add to the fact it now has added freedom by not needing to carry HP Ground and can make use of sub/2nd stab/thief/protect/etc. Just requires a bit of extra team building to guarantee a kill on it's one real counter: steelix. Link to comment
Robofiend Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Yeah I kinda think this thing should go (again). Unlike other sweepers it can get around almost all of its checks with good team support or it can just wait until late game to start sweeping when its checks (Haunter, Steelix) are gone. I think it meets the criterion: "Sweeps a siginificant portion of the tier with little effort", given how easy it is to Bdrum against a wall and then start the sweep. OrangeManiac, Poulpatine and DrCraig 3 Link to comment
OldKeith Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 i would like to point out that if linoone has dig you could switch to a levitate/flying pokemon on the dig turn and get off a hit when it surfaces. obvs this requires knowledge off did + a pokemon that forces dig so extremely situation, but it's a draw back. This is where the mindgames begin. We might as well argue that the Linoone user knows he has been scouted already because winning with it is easy, and he will expect Dig to be baited by a Steel or Rock type and go for a different move instead to hit the levitating pokemon. And then just proceed to end the sweep in glory. Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 This is where the mindgames begin. We might as well argue that the Linoone user knows he has been scouted already because winning with it is easy, and he will expect Dig to be baited by a Steel or Rock type and go for a different move instead to hit the levitating pokemon. And then just proceed to end the sweep in glory. the thing about mind games is it entirely depends on the people playing. for theoretical arguments we should assume worst case senario because a smarter player being able to beat a idiot=/=nothing is broken. we should always ignore mind games that really on individual skill. exceptions to this would be sub/spore breloom and other strategy's which are weighted towards one player or the other and therefore are more likely to work then fail. i mean you probably already know this but w/e Link to comment
OldKeith Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 the thing about mind games is it entirely depends on the people playing. for theoretical arguments we should assume worst case senario because a smarter player being able to beat a idiot=/=nothing is broken. we should always ignore mind games that really on individual skill. exceptions to this would be sub/spore breloom and other strategy's which are weighted towards one player or the other and therefore are more likely to work then fail. i mean you probably already know this but w/e Well this works both ways, doesn't it? We can assume the worst case scenario for the player getting swept by Linoone. If he is tricked to bring his flying pokemon and have i die to an Iron Tail, then the sweep of Linoone will go on, uninterrupted. Link to comment
DrCraig Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Dig is pretty crap imo Linoone should be moved up, belly drum+sitrus+252HP is almost a guarenteed set up. There are few pokemon that can stop, or that will be at full HP at the time Linoone comes in. It sweeps a significant portion of the meta alone, and with support can sweep pretty flawlessly (Wynaut so broken). BL Linoone woooo Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Well this works both ways, doesn't it? We can assume the worst case scenario for the player getting swept by Linoone. If he is tricked to bring his flying pokemon and have i die to an Iron Tail, then the sweep of Linoone will go on, uninterrupted. it does not work both ways. if a pokemon is somtimes ban worthy and sometimes not based off rng, we should ban it. for tier'ing it is better to ban something then let it be conditionally overpowered in it's tier. as to your second statement im not sure what you are saying? might just be my fever thou. Link to comment
Artemiseta Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 exactly what craig said. i took time t think about this and nothing has changed for linoone other than losing shadowball for coverage and gaining thief with full bulk set up is easy and later in the match if a wall or 2 is weakened then linoone sweep is inevitable ghost do limit linoone but that is resolved by running thief. belly drum espeed stab with priority thief iron tail/dig but I prefer iron tail with a sitrus berry to resore that health after belly drum the walls if weakened will not survive the onslaught that is linoone I would say that linoone can sweep the majority of the meta with little to no effort or support needed (majority not all steelix only thing I can really think of barring crits when it belly drum and activates the berry) baring an unfortunate paralysis from a static user it will go unchecked and even then you rely on rng for that situation and then to actually have it be paralyzed no only does it have this set but it can go sub flail belly drum thief or espeed to put people in a situation to switch and then free belly drum or sub and the flail is on or even both DrCraig and fredrichnietze 2 Link to comment
OldKeith Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 So, since we all agreed this has no place in UU, can we ban it before the next UU official, or should I start grinding TT for battle points? Noad 1 Link to comment
Tyrone Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Like this post if you want to see Linoone banned. UU Council is going to discuss this asap. Havsha, Archinix, Artemiseta and 11 others 14 Link to comment
OldKeith Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Like this post if you want to see Linoone banned. UU Council is going to discuss this asap. OldKeith, YoungKeith, MiddleAgedKeith like this. Vaeldras, Leorodo and RysPicz 3 Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Like this post if you want to see Linoone banned. UU Council is going to discuss this asap. like whore [spoiler] notfred, oldfred, ect... approve this message. [/spoiler] Vaeldras 1 Link to comment
DrCraig Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Tyrone farming those likes, wow. Kiliminati 1 Link to comment
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