[Denied]TM access via Battle Tower

[Qaztin]

My suggestion is to make 1-time obtainable TM(like Toxic or EQ) avaible in Battle Tower for Battle Points. It would paritaly solve alt-runs plague and it can encourage people to do Trainer Tower instead of alt running when they need certain TM.

 

The idea is to make TM obtainable in TT via Battle point - price would be equal to story progress that u would need to do to obtain certain TM. Closer to E4=More expensive it is.

TM could be obtained as item or teached by Special Move Tutor.

 

Example of TM prices in TT(assumption: full TT run = 1h for average player,2700 points by using 2 Joy's heal service):

 

• TM 39 Rock Tomb: 1k BP(alternative price: 500 BP)
• TM 03 Water Pulse: 1k BP(alternative price: 500 BP)
• TM 06 Toxic: 3k BP(alternative price: 1,5k BP)
• TM 26 Earthquake: 5k BP(alternative price: 3k BP)
• TM 02 Dragon Claw: 5k BP(alternative price: 3k BP)

These prices are only examples, can be changed to any value.

 

I hope that people would love that idea, any thoughts?

 

Edit:

 

If i missjudged any tier or placed on wrong tier, type request post in this thread to correct :) Tiers are from 1 (first gym) to 8 (last gym).

 

List of TM and their lvl:

 

[spoiler]

 

 

[/spoiler]

 

Pros:

 

• another way to gain TM without need to create Alts
• need less time to gain TM
• TT will shine once again
• some part of community would enjoy this

 

Cons:

 

• people need to learn how to TT(maybe its pros, coz they earn battle experience?)
• TT need fix (better payouts or removing items that affect acuracy- maybe simmilar rules as in tournamet battles?)
• some people who overuse word "grind" doesn't like this(doing TT for 1 TM is not a grind, people, please...)

Edited March 15, 2015 by Qaztin

[flavajabari]

i like it, its getting harder & harder to buy certain tm's nowadays (looking at you earthquake),

and moves like these are essential to comp play.

 

the prizes would need some tweaking though, as its still cheaper to buy eq's from tradechat compared to your 10k bp (400-500k)

[Qaztin]

i like it, its getting harder & harder to buy certain tm's nowadays (looking at you earthquake),

and moves like these are essential to comp play.

 

the prizes would need some tweaking though, as its still cheaper to buy eq's from tradechat compared to your 10k bp (400-500k)

Example prices are example, can be changed how Staff like it, only wanted to show alternative way for competetive players since doings TT runs u wont get bored or something like in alt run :)

[Lysandra]

It is a good idea. These TMs ultimately need to be put somewhere in game and Trainer Tower seems to be more interesting and fitting place than ordinary mart.

 

Personally I would simply put these moves as items.

 

I'm not really into competitive play, so I'm not sure, but wouldn't 5k BP for each TM be enough? Do they really need to be more expensive? It's not like you all want to grind another few hours for every move from this list, is it?

[Qaztin]

It is a good idea. These TMs ultimately need to be put somewhere in game and Trainer Tower seems to be more interesting and fitting place than ordinary mart.

 

Personally I would simply put these moves as items.

 

I'm not really into competitive play, so I'm not sure, but wouldn't 5k BP for each TM be enough? Do they really need to be more expensive? It's not like you all want to grind another few hours for every move from this list, is it?

 

5 k bp could be enough to be max price for end-story tms :)

 

Edit:

 

To set prices on TM there's need to catagorize them, let's make level for each tm to sort them, lvl=how much Gym's u need to beat to be able to obtain certain TM, example: In Kanto u can obtain TM 26 EQ after beating Giovanni so it's 8 lvl in Kanto, but in Hoenn it's 7 lvl, but it need more time and effort to gain so overall it's 8 lvl). I'm going to add list of TM's and their lvl.

 

Edit2:

 

Added some info, comment suggest people pls :)

Edited March 14, 2015 by Qaztin

[OldKeith]

Nah, no way I would grind that horribly designed Trainer Tower for TMs now, too. The best place for TMs is an actual shop, where you can buy them for cash. Just because you need them all the time.

[BurntZebra]

Way too expensive, either spend 3 hours getting 1 tm 26, or spend ~4 hours getting tm 26 AND every other storyline tm and cash/items as well

[Qaztin]

It's suggestion, not suggested BP prices, it can be changed but still in my opinion better than doing over and over again alt run

 

 

 

Nah, no way I would grind that horribly designed Trainer Tower for TMs now, too. The best place for TMs is an actual shop, where you can buy them for cash. Just because you need them all the time.

@Oldkleith It's only your opinion that TT is horribly designed. I think it's ballaneced coz it can be a challenge for new players as for old, experienced one. It's random, not that repetive as alt runs npc(after x times doing alt run u will simply get bored). And placing TM in shop is not part of this suggestion or not an solution coz if we put them on shops then people wouldn't sell/buy them from other people and tm as like shinies, battle items and breeders are part of economy, and withdrawing tm from it will only have a bad effects.

 

 

 

Way too expensive, either spend 3 hours getting 1 tm 26, or spend ~4 hours getting tm 26 AND every other storyline tm and cash/items as well

@BurntZebra As i said, BP prices are suggested, u got better idea for them then pls type them instead of saying "too expensive".

Edited March 14, 2015 by Qaztin

[OldKeith]

We already have Event Moves from Trainer Tower, which are rare and I can understand having to grind the tower from them. The Tutor Moves are uncommon and we already have a nice shard system going for them, despite the current shortage of reds. TMs are very commonly needed, and you often end up having to buy one between official rounds (like when I placed a cheeky Ice Beam on my Ludicolo to counter a Dragonite). Therefore a TT grind for them is a terrible idea imo. They should be somewhat easier to obtain than Event and Tutor Moves.

 

As for being my opinion about the design of the TT, a lot of the people I spoke to hate it too, even the developers mentioned that it is only 50% finished.

[Tritios]

We already have Event Moves from Trainer Tower, which are rare and I can understand having to grind the tower from them. The Tutor Moves are uncommon and we already have a nice shard system going for them, despite the current shortage of reds. TMs are very commonly needed, and you often end up having to buy one between official rounds (like when I placed a cheeky Ice Beam on my Ludicolo to counter a Dragonite). Therefore a TT grind for them is a terrible idea imo. They should be somewhat easier to obtain than Event and Tutor Moves.

As for being my opinion about the design of the TT, a lot of the people I spoke to hate it too, even the developers mentioned that it is only 50% finished.

Agreed. Tms should be easily accesible otherwise people will just continue doing
altruns.
An option could be a kinda blackmarked-thingy where the prices are changing based on how many are sold. Example tm26 has a set price on 30k but as more people buy it the more it raises in price. And tms that don't sell that well Drops in price.

[Qaztin]

We already have Event Moves from Trainer Tower, which are rare and I can understand having to grind the tower from them. The Tutor Moves are uncommon and we already have a nice shard system going for them, despite the current shortage of reds. TMs are very commonly needed, and you often end up having to buy one between official rounds (like when I placed a cheeky Ice Beam on my Ludicolo to counter a Dragonite). Therefore a TT grind for them is a terrible idea imo. They should be somewhat easier to obtain than Event and Tutor Moves.

 

As for being my opinion about the design of the TT, a lot of the people I spoke to hate it too, even the developers mentioned that it is only 50% finished.

 

Doing TT for up to 5k points is not a grind -.- I hate that argument "easily accessible" because that's total bullshit and not argument at all. Easy accesible and common are pokeballs at Pokemarts. TM's like EQ or toxic u gain after spending at least hour on alt run, so dont call that easily accessible. And don't expect that people will get every thing in this game for free because there will be be always need to put efftort to gain something.

 

And wanted to mention that i heard rumor that somewhere on forum Staff mentioned something about raising payout from TT, so price like 3k for mid game TM will be not as high as we see it atm. And adding argument as TM to TT to make it more rewarding will encourage people to do and master this, nobody said that it will be easy from the start :)

 

 

Agreed. Tms should be easily accesible otherwise people will just continue doing
altruns.
An option could be a kinda blackmarked-thingy where the prices are changing based on how many are sold. Example tm26 has a set price on 30k but as more people buy it the more it raises in price. And tms that don't sell that well Drops in price.

Common are also Magikarps in the water, not TM's. If TM were easy accesible then they would have no value.

 

And a while ago suggestion of making something like Auction House (working like in all MMO) was denied (r.i.p. AH).

[OldKeith]

Doing TT for up to 5k points is not a grind -.- I hate that argument "easily accessible" because that's total bullshit and not argument at all. Easy accesible and common are pokeballs at Pokemarts. TM's like EQ or toxic u gain after spending at least hour on alt run, so dont call that easily accessible. And don't expect that people will get every thing in this game for free because there will be be always need to put efftort to gain something.

 

And wanted to mention that i heard rumor that somewhere on forum Staff mentioned something about raising payout from TT, so price like 3k for mid game TM will be not as high as we see it atm. And adding argument as TM to TT to make it more rewarding will encourage people to do and master this, nobody said that it will be easy from the start :)

 

But TT is a grind - it is not difficult as you suggested, but rather takes a lot of time to be done efficiently, a process that you have to repeat again and again and that can be compromised by RNG -  and your proposed 5k points for Earthquake will take at least 2 runs, maybe even 3. And 5k points are easily worth 200k, and you can buy EQ for 40k. As I said before, TT already gives access to the rare Event Moves, so there is no good reason to add common TMs to it - where is the variety?

 

Just think about it for a bit - your pokemon may end up requiring up to 3-4 TMs, maybe 2 Tutor Moves at most, but event moves are rare, most pokemon do not even need them. Having to grind and grind the trainer tower for very common moves is an outright terrible idea. People will still do altruns, just because people will prefer to spend 40k on EQ and 20k on Toxic, rather than grinding them from TT.

 

The rumour about increased payouts has been on ever since TT was implemented, but you cannot really base your suggestion on a "rumour", it makes no sense. You can suggest this, if the TT becomes better in the future - but I still think the idea would be bad, and obtaining TMs should require items found on wild encounters - or simply cash.

Edited March 15, 2015 by OldKeith

[Qaztin]

But TT is a grind - it is not difficult as you suggested, but rather takes a lot of time to be done efficiently, a process that you have to repeat again and again and that can be compromised by RNG -  and your proposed 5k points for Earthquake will take at least 2 runs, maybe even 3. And 5k points are easily worth 200k, and you can buy EQ for 40k. As I said before, TT already gives access to the rare Event Moves, so there is no good reason to add common TMs to it - where is the variety?

 

Just think about it for a bit - your pokemon may end up requiring up to 3-4 TMs, maybe 2 Tutor Moves at most, but event moves are rare, most pokemon do not even need them. Having to grind and grind the trainer tower for very common moves is an outright terrible idea. People will still do altruns, just because people will prefer to spend 40k on EQ and 20k on Toxic, rather than grinding them from TT.

 

The rumour about increased payouts has been on ever since TT was implemented, but you cannot really base your suggestion on a "rumour", it makes no sense. You can suggest this, if the TT becomes better in the future - but I still think the idea would be bad, and obtaining TMs should require items found on wild encounters - or simply cash.

1. Suggestion is not based on rumor, abour rumor i learned after typing suggestion. And 15k BP won't be always 600k. Prices goes up and goes down, the're reflection of demands on trade. 1 Year ago 500 reward point were like more than 500k, now its 200k so if we are looking into the future we guess anything.

 

2. I did not proposed certain value fo moves, values on first post are examples only, it can be 2k bp, can be 1k, can be 3k etc, its changeable as i say again. Please read full thread instead of looking into prices and typing "too much, too much, grind, grind".

 

3. When ure doing 3 times TT only to achive one move it's not grind, but when ur'e doing it over and over again not only for your personal purposes but to "sell BP" and ure doing this like hundreds times then it's grind. I bet that 50% of players does not finished it more than 20 times.

 

4. I can make suggest any time, there's no need to do this after TT fix or something like that. Maybe this idea will affect TT and will force it to have some changes, better npc, better payout. Don't be narrow minded coz u don't like to do TT, there's plenty other people who would like to see this kind of extra rewards on TT.

[Gilan]

1. Suggestion is not based on rumor, abour rumor i learned after typing suggestion. And 15k BP won't be always 600k. Prices goes up and goes down, the're reflection of demands on trade. 1 Year ago 500 reward point were like more than 500k, now its 200k so if we are looking into the future we guess anything.
 
2. I did not proposed certain value fo moves, values on first post are examples only, it can be 2k bp, can be 1k, can be 3k etc, its changeable as i say again. Please read full thread instead of looking into prices and typing "too much, too much, grind, grind".
 
3. When ure doing 3 times TT only to achive one move it's not grind, but when ur'e doing it over and over again not only for your personal purposes but to "sell BP" and ure doing this like hundreds times then it's grind. I bet that 50% of players does not finished it more than 20 times.
 
4. I can make suggest any time, there's no need to do this after TT fix or something like that. Maybe this idea will affect TT and will force it to have some changes, better npc, better payout. Don't be narrow minded coz u don't like to do TT, there's plenty other people who would like to see this kind of extra rewards on TT.

I just wanted to respond to your first point:

Since TT has a set entry cost, the price of BP will vary at a very small amount, which is the price of the effort and time. The reason 500RP Has changed in pokeyen value, in part due to demand, but more due to the value of pokeyen. With so many money sinks, people value pokyen much more now.

[Qaztin]

I just wanted to respond to your first point:

Since TT has a set entry cost, the price of BP will vary at a very small amount, which is the price of the effort and time. The reason 500RP Has changed in pokeyen value, in part due to demand, but more due to the value of pokeyen. With so many money sinks, people value pokyen much more now.

 

Yeah thats true, value ballance depending on the situation but it's only mentioned by me to show example that BP point wont be 100k/2,5k BP forever. More people will do it then bigger amount of BP is in players hands and BP price in yens will eventualy go down :) 

[OldKeith]

Even if it would take only one TT run to obtain a TM, I would still not feel like TMs belong in the TT. Regardless of the price. I would like a different method of obtaining TMs for the sake of variety, and hunting for pokemon holding items seems like a better solution to me.

[Qaztin]

Even if it would take only one TT run to obtain a TM, I would still not feel like TMs belong in the TT. Regardless of the price. I would like a different method of obtaining TMs for the sake of variety, and hunting for pokemon holding items seems like a better solution to me.

And TM's definetly don't belong to the Marts becase thats the worst move (and the laziest one) in that way. One of the things that make yens value are TM, other are comps/breeders/shinies/hold items/BP points/RP points. Without value on TM's price of everything would just simple raise up and that's now what community need, when getting money is not that easy at all.

 

And there's no connection between TM and pokes so it would be difficult to place them. Who would hold Toxic, all main poison types? And who Earthquake, all ground types. I can't even imagine that because it would afffect drop rate of other items. I can only imagine raging people coz they got stupid Water Pulse instead of desired Red Shards. And u were against "grind" so hunting pokes for TM is arguing with your previous statement. And as u said it's "seems like better solution" for you, and i think only for you. That's why it's not reasonable.

[Lysandra]

And there's no connection between TM and pokes so it would be difficult to place them. Who would hold Toxic, all main poison types? And who Earthquake, all ground types. I can't even imagine that because it would afffect drop rate of other items. I can only imagine raging people coz they got stupid Water Pulse instead of desired Red Shards. And u were against "grind" so hunting pokes for TM is arguing with your previous statement. And as u said it's "seems like better solution" for you, and i think only for you. That's why it's not reasonable.

 

OldKeith is reffering to another suggestion proposing way to implement these TMs, you can as well give it a read.

[Qaztin]

He reffered to his own topic idea which died time ago and was displaced with "crafting" idea and it's not fair to otherthrow other's idea with your own that is not even connected :) Let the people/Staff judge which is better or maybe both will be implemented(just hope for second option) in the future. I'm not wishing him bad or something, just wishing good luck :)

[OldKeith]

Hm, you seem to take things too personally, like everyone who disagrees is an enemy.

 

The point is that hunting for items on wild pokemon provides much more variety and the possibility to even encounter a shiny. It can take you 100 encounters, or it can take you 1, so the mystery of it remains. Grinding the battle tower, especially in its current state, for TMs is a no-go for me. Even 1 battle tower grind is less profitable than an altrun, because an altrun can be completed within a few hours and give you a lot of TMs, not just the one you battle one hour for. 

[Qaztin]

Hm, you seem to take things too personally, like everyone who disagrees is an enemy.

 

The point is that hunting for items on wild pokemon provides much more variety and the possibility to even encounter a shiny. It can take you 100 encounters, or it can take you 1, so the mystery of it remains. Grinding the battle tower, especially in its current state, for TMs is a no-go for me. Even 1 battle tower grind is less profitable than an altrun, because an altrun can be completed within a few hours and give you a lot of TMs, not just the one you battle one hour for. 

 

If ure not with me, then ure against me, huh, i sense dark side i strong with u :) Just jokin :)

 

U must consider that not everyone is into going into wild and hoping for good RNG while huntig for items :) I do consider your idea from your topic as good but since we got part of community that is strongly into competetive plays and for them doing TT is like having practice between tournaments and this topic idea would be rewarding of them :) We must acknowegle everyone's needs :) I'm an ally of both suggestions, best from your topic and from this one such every one would be satisfied.

[OldKeith]

Let's not fool ourselves into believing that Trainer Tower prepares anyone for PVP competitive events. But hell, I would love to see TMs anywhere at this point, being in shops, TT, or wild Laprases. I spammed trade chat for 2 hours to buy an Earthquake last night and today.

[Qaztin]

Let's not fool ourselves into believing that Trainer Tower prepares anyone for PVP competitive events. But hell, I would love to see TMs anywhere at this point, being in shops, TT, or wild Laprases. I spammed trade chat for 2 hours to buy an Earthquake last night and today.

Personaly i've got one lesson from TT, be preapered for unpreticted things ( such as DrCreig Thunder Wave Slowbro, slowpokes FTW!) :) I'm glad that i at least achieved some sort of compromise with you :D

 

Waiting for other comments and "upgrading" ideas to this suggestion. Maybe DarkShade or anyone from Staff have something to say! :)

[Zehkar]

TMs are now available in various marts around the world.

 

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/56249-changelog-20082015/