Increase shard drop rates/tutor move cost

[PandaJJ]

I had this idea a while back, but haven't bothered writing it down before now. Although I believe the game won't suffer from simply increasing shard rates (and everstone rates for that matter), this suggestion is a better solution if the devs are opposed to do that.

 

My suggestion is to multiply shard drop rates by some number (ideally four) and multiply the shard cost for a tutor move by the same number.

 

For example, this makes green shards appear 100% on relicanth (instead of 25%), but moves such as pain split will now cost 12 green shards instead of 3. So what exactly does this change? Statistically, this decreases the variance of the time required to hunt shards. I will try to explain this by using an example of our current system:

Assume that the expected time required to hunt one green shard is 30 minutes right now. Then with the new system the expected time of hunting four green shards (which has the same value as one green shard with the new system) would still be 30 minutes. However, the difference between the two scenarios is that within any interval of time about 30 minutes, say 25-35 minutes, you are more likely to find exactly four green shards with the new system than finding one green shard with the old system. To summarize, shard hunting will become much more consistent. Grinding is the most boring thing there is, but the fact that it is also inconsistent totally grinds my gears.

Now, the reason why I think the multiplier should be four is that this will bring the green shard rate to 100% for relicanths. This is really importiant, since relicanth is a major reason why the current system is so inconsistent.

On a less serious note, this will make people have larger stacks of shards in their inventory. Bigger numbers have been proven to attract players, and this fact is used consciously in games such as pinball and other arcade games (where scores are ridiculously high), and RPGs generally aim to use higher damage outputs than their predecessors.

 

Pros:

-Shard hunting becomes more consistent and less luck-based

-People will have lots of shards and be attracted by the beatiful big numbers :3

 

Cons:

-Lucky players (i.e. nobody) will spend a longer time hunting for shards.

-Shard values will drop (this will be irrelevant in the long run)

Edited March 7, 2015 by PandaJJ

[Munya]

You would be forced to hunt for 12 relicanth every single time you go to farm that move, you can never get lucky and cut that down to 3(which would be possible, I've done 3 in a row on the old rates with fishing, with the new rates should be even easier).

[felix]

You would be forced to hunt for 12 relicanth every single time you go to farm that move, you can never get lucky and cut that down to 3(which would be possible, I've done 3 in a row on the old rates with fishing, with the new rates should be even easier).

 

so you are luckily one time and now it should be easier. lets, say you are a competitive player, and you have 10 comps with old moveset.

Lets say that you need signal beam in 5 of them, cause signal beam is a pretty strong and good move now.

 

You need 18 shards right now with your new lovely rate, I doubt even you with your luck can get 18 green shards in 18 encounters, atm we can't even find 3 in trade chat.

 

Competive players that want green or red shards suffers from their shit encounter and find ratio, if you were a competivive player you would understand our pain.

 

@op

 

Not sure if I agree entirely with your suggestion, but i would prefer like you suggested instead of the way it is right now.

Last time I went into green shard hunting after 3 hours I had like 1 green shard (about 5 relicanths)

[Munya]

so you are luckily one time and now it should be easier. lets, say you are a competitive player, and you have 10 comps with old moveset.

Lets say that you need signal beam in 5 of them, cause signal beam is a pretty strong and good move now.

 

You need 18 shards right now with your new lovely rate, I doubt even you with your luck can get 18 green shards in 18 encounters, atm we can't even find 3 in trade chat.

 

 

 

no but then you would have to get 72 shards not 18, thats 72 relicanth encounters.

 

EDIT: Number changes.

 

Either way, I knew exactly what shard hunting involved, and I know that it is significantly easier now, between higher rates, no "not even a nibbles", lower movecosts, and 3 shards in one location.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Munya

[felix]

no but then you would have to get 72 shards not 18, thats 72 relicanth encounters.

 

EDIT: Number changes.

 

Either way, I knew exactly what shard hunting involved, and I know that it is significantly easier now, between higher rates, no "not even a nibbles", lower movecosts, and 3 shards in one location.

but then i would be sure that after 72 relicanth encounters i would have enough green shards to fix my movesets. Right now, the only thing I'm sure about shard hunting is that i will be bored of not founding shards in the few encounters of relicants.

 

it is easier compared with the old way, that doesn't mean it is good or enjoyable or rewardful (i don't even now if this word exists, but what I mean is that i don't wanna go hunt shards and get none shards).

 

I don't really see any benefit in every shard suggestion and post "It is easier now than before", i think we all now that and we just want to go there and find shards after a while.

[PandaJJ]

You would be forced to hunt for 12 relicanth every single time you go to farm that move, you can never get lucky and cut that down to 3(which would be possible, I've done 3 in a row on the old rates with fishing, with the new rates should be even easier).

 

I'm not sure how to interpret that - yes, you have the chance of getting three green shards off three relicanth encounters, but you are equally likely to get zero green shards off 14 relicanth encounters. My suggestion makes it so that every time you hunt green shards, instead of having the possibilty to spend a short time or a REALLY long time, you will most likely spend an average amount of time. As I mentioned:

 

Cons:

-Lucky players (i.e. nobody) will spend a longer time hunting for shards.

 

If you are going to get moves for more than one comp, you are not going to be lucky time after time, and you will really appreciate the consistency of my suggested system. The lower variance is a mathematical fact, and it means that you sacrifice the possibility of getting lucky in order to get consistency, something which you will be happy about in the long run.

 

Another thing, since I know you are biased because you have a ton of shards, this suggestion (if implemented) should of course be announced beforehand to give players an opportunity to use/sell their shards before the change happens, to avoid players losing a lot of money.

Edited March 8, 2015 by PandaJJ

[Munya]

Another thing, since I know you are biased because you have a ton of shards, this suggestion (if implemented) should of course be announced beforehand to give players an opportunity to use/sell their shards before the change happens, to avoid players losing a lot of money.

 

I have a full 30 blue shards and like, 4 green, yeah I have a wholeeeeeeeeee lot.  And that doesn't work at all, people will know the change is coming and just stop using them

[TheRealPhatiman]

While shard hunting is considerably easier its still not a rewarding experience.I think what de-motivates most people is the alternate items obtainable,i.e deepseascale and hardstone,and I think the main reasoning behind that is they're essentially useless,while they might be there for balance I think it could be put to better use..an example off the top of my head would be making them sellable at the mart for a reasonable price,not only would it make it a rewarding experience but offers passive income aswell,offering the player even more incentive to grind and hunt their own shards.while I like this suggestions basis i feel it would be a step in the wrong direction..instead of grinding being the soul sapping activity it is I think there should be more focus on making the experience as a whole an enjoyable one,both rewarding and fullfilling..the devs did amazingly well in this respect in regards to breeding,srs 10/10(even doe its so expensive;_;)and they should continue in the same fashion for other elements of this game..when a game consists of the amount of grinding this does atleast work at making it fun..

 

-1 

[PandaJJ]

And that doesn't work at all, people will know the change is coming and just stop using them

 

That comment makes no sense - care to explain? If people know that shard tutors will require more shards, the natural reaction is use them while they are still cheap, not to stop using them like you are suggesting

 

While shard hunting is considerably easier its still not a rewarding experience.I think what de-motivates most people is the alternate items obtainable,i.e deepseascale and hardstone,and I think the main reasoning behind that is they're essentially useless,while they might be there for balance I think it could be put to better use..an example off the top of my head would be making them sellable at the mart for a reasonable price,not only would it make it a rewarding experience but offers passive income aswell,offering the player even more incentive to grind and hunt their own shards.while I like this suggestions basis i feel it would be a step in the wrong direction..instead of grinding being the soul sapping activity it is I think there should be more focus on making the experience as a whole an enjoyable one,both rewarding and fullfilling..the devs did amazingly well in this respect in regards to breeding,srs 10/10(even doe its so expensive;_;)and they should continue in the same fashion for other elements of this game..when a game consists of the amount of grinding this does atleast work at making it fun..

 

-1 

 

Hard stones and deepseascales is a very annoying feature about hunting shards/everstones, but it has nothing to do with consistency or amount of time you have to spend grinding. Of course making them sellable for a decent price would make item hunting slightly more attractive, but it doesn't deal with what I consider the biggest problem, namely that grinding takes too long and is so inconsistent that you can never be prepared for how long you have to hunt to get what you need. I did mention in my introduction that I think the game would not suffer from simply increase item rates over all, since this directly decreases grinding time.

[Munya]

That comment makes no sense - care to explain? If people know that shard tutors will require more shards, the natural reaction is use them while they are still cheap, not to stop using them like you are suggesting

 

 

 

Shards would drop in price as you would need more and they would be easier to collect, they would wait to buy any, or just farm there own.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Munya

[PandaJJ]

Shards would drop in price as you would need more and they would be easier to collect, they would wait to buy any, or just farm there own.

 

Okay, I get it. If you are unable to use your own shards, then you might have a problem selling them before the update strikes. However, since they price will be adjusted according to the new drop rates, tutor moves will still be the same price. If somebody would be willing to buy shards instead of farming them, they would be equally likely to do so both before and after the update. But I guess buying shards in general is not very attractive...

[TheRealPhatiman]

 

 

 

Hard stones and deepseascales is a very annoying feature about hunting shards/everstones, but it has nothing to do with consistency or amount of time you have to spend grinding. Of course making them sellable for a decent price would make item hunting slightly more attractive, but it doesn't deal with what I consider the biggest problem, namely that grinding takes too long and is so inconsistent that you can never be prepared for how long you have to hunt to get what you need. I did mention in my introduction that I think the game would not suffer from simply increase item rates over all, since this directly decreases grinding time.

Had a 12 page essay detailing my reasoning behind my thought process and chrome crashed;_;gg..what i was essentially getting at was that if grinding wasn't monotonous,dull and repetitive as it was performing the simplest of tasks wouldn't be as emotionally exhausting.if you having fun doing something then the amount of time put into it really becomes irrelevant,while your thought process is definitely one with very valid points its your solution i don't agree with,why complicate something that shouldn't be complicated in the first place.your point on inconsistency is spot on though and sometimes i feel the devs don't realize just how bad it is sometimes.they implement short term solutions(correct if im wrong but i was under the assumption shard tutors were implemented the way they were because the hoenn update at the time wasn't any where in site and the meta needed the tutors)but don't think of the long term impact.shard tutors should not be the grind they are,they shouldn't be only accessible to a few but to all,much like the kanto story line tutors..I remember pre hoenn when shard hunting was even worse than it is now and i had to fork out 450k for heal bell,and it gave me an insane advantage aswell because not any one could just afford to buy it either.while the gap has certainly been marginalized to an extent it shouldn't be the way it is now,story line tutors should be consistent in their availability across the board.the only move tutors i feel should be a grind are event moves,their exclusivity warrant it,and even that is more consistent in terms of working towards an end result than what it is now...shard tutors should be abolished and standardized as one..making them purchasable over a luck based system essentially gives every one an equal opportunity,which is how it should be.and for the people who are worried we'l lose a bartering tool in our economy take a step back and think about it,why hunt for an hour to maybe get 50k when you could be paydaying ensuring your end result is a profitable one..if you're shard hunting as a means of making money then your ideals im sorry to say are completely wonky..a bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.

[Qaztin]

Making higher drop rate for shards making and shard move costing is a way to force people to grind them. Example U can spend 1h shard hunting or 1h paydaying to have money for shards. Pretty simple, if ure lucky or smart u got them, if not, sry life's a bitch. And RNG system is a part of PokeMMO being PokeMMO, without it it would be only battle simulator.

 

And about trading shards... Maybe u don't see them coz people know that they are valuable and plenty players are lowballing offerts for them as hell.

[Lysandra]

Making higher drop rate for shards making and shard move costing is a way to force people to grind them. Example U can spend 1h shard hunting or 1h paydaying to have money for shards. Pretty simple, if ure lucky or smart u got them, if not, sry life's a uguu. And RNG system is a part of PokeMMO being PokeMMO, without it it would be only battle simulator.

 

If this suggestion was implemented, tutor moves prices would become 4 times bigger, while shards would become 4 times more common and, as a result in this case, 4 times cheaper. In the end you would still need 1h paydaing to have money for needed number of shards. This suggestion wouldn't change anything besides lowering RNG factor (lowering, not discarding entirely) and raising some numbers (but 12 isn't so big number, so it isn't really a problem in my opinion).

Edited March 9, 2015 by Lysandra

[PandaJJ]

Had a 12 page essay detailing my reasoning behind my thought process and chrome crashed;_;gg..what i was essentially getting at was that if grinding wasn't monotonous,dull and repetitive as it was performing the simplest of tasks wouldn't be as emotionally exhausting.if you having fun doing something then the amount of time put into it really becomes irrelevant,while your thought process is definitely one with very valid points its your solution i don't agree with,why complicate something that shouldn't be complicated in the first place.your point on inconsistency is spot on though and sometimes i feel the devs don't realize just how bad it is sometimes.they implement short term solutions(correct if im wrong but i was under the assumption shard tutors were implemented the way they were because the hoenn update at the time wasn't any where in site and the meta needed the tutors)but don't think of the long term impact.shard tutors should not be the grind they are,they shouldn't be only accessible to a few but to all,much like the kanto story line tutors..I remember pre hoenn when shard hunting was even worse than it is now and i had to fork out 450k for heal bell,and it gave me an insane advantage aswell because not any one could just afford to buy it either.while the gap has certainly been marginalized to an extent it shouldn't be the way it is now,story line tutors should be consistent in their availability across the board.the only move tutors i feel should be a grind are event moves,their exclusivity warrant it,and even that is more consistent in terms of working towards an end result than what it is now...shard tutors should be abolished and standardized as one..making them purchasable over a luck based system essentially gives every one an equal opportunity,which is how it should be.and for the people who are worried we'l lose a bartering tool in our economy take a step back and think about it,why hunt for an hour to maybe get 50k when you could be paydaying ensuring your end result is a profitable one..if you're shard hunting as a means of making money then your ideals im sorry to say are completely wonky..a bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.

 

I totally agree that if grinding was somehow entertaining, the time spent on doing it would be irrelevant. You see this in other games, for instance mmorpgs, where grinding is usually battling. Battling is entertaining because of using flashy skills and magic, and maybe even requiring some thought. I don't see how this is easily done in pokemmo (no, battle animations is the opposite of entertaining - get rid of it), but I do acknowledge it as a good thing to implement. Having any other entertaning end game content than battling (and to a lesser degree, breeding) is a must, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. As of now I just wish that I could plan how much time it would take me get shards to complete a moveset for a pokemon, just like how I can plan how much time it takes to get enough money to buy TMs etc.

Anyways, I'm only allowed one suggestion per thread, and I think this suggestion doesn't prevent the game from being further improved in the future, unless one decides to abolish the shard system overall.

 

Making higher drop rate for shards making and shard move costing is a way to force people to grind them.

 

As opposed to... not being forced to grind them? Unless you find somebody who are willing to sell you shards, you are forced to grind them. Encouraging people to engage in all the features of the game is a positive thing, as otherwise said features would be redundant. If shards is going to be a thing, at least force people to use it.

 

And RNG system is a part of PokeMMO being PokeMMO, without it it would be only battle simulator.

 

My suggestion would by no means remove RNG, though. You could still dive for seven hours without encountering a single relicanth. The aim is to simply make it more consistent, which is what I have already stated.

[TheRealPhatiman]

Making higher drop rate for shards making and shard move costing is a way to force people to grind them. Example U can spend 1h shard hunting or 1h paydaying to have money for shards. Pretty simple, if ure lucky or smart u got them, if not, sry life's a uguu. And RNG system is a part of PokeMMO being PokeMMO, without it it would be only battle simulator.

 

And about trading shards... Maybe u don't see them coz people know that they are valuable and plenty players are lowballing offerts for them as hell.

No.not even remotely close.people dont sell shards for one simple reason,they dont have any.and if you think about it the reasons will present themselves to you.also the whole argument of pokemon being a luck based system and as such should be kept that way is completely misguided.yes,certain things should involve rng but when it comes to this certain circumstance I dont think progress should be decided on pure luck,a persons hard work should pay diffidence.

 

I totally agree that if grinding was somehow entertaining, the time spent on doing it would be irrelevant. You see this in other games, for instance mmorpgs, where grinding is usually battling. Battling is entertaining because of using flashy skills and magic, and maybe even requiring some thought. I don't see how this is easily done in pokemmo (no, battle animations is the opposite of entertaining - get rid of it), but I do acknowledge it as a good thing to implement. Having any other entertaning end game content than battling (and to a lesser degree, breeding) is a must, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. As of now I just wish that I could plan how much time it would take me get shards to complete a moveset for a pokemon, just like how I can plan how much time it takes to get enough money to buy TMs etc.

Anyways, I'm only allowed one suggestion per thread, and I think this suggestion doesn't prevent the game from being further improved in the future, unless one decides to abolish the shard system overall.

 

 

I had those same games in mind when making that comment,glad to see you atleast see what im getting at.but yes I agree with you wholeheartedly I just still dont think your suggestion is the way to go mate,but atleast you pro-actively trying to think of solutions for something thats so obviously a problem.so kudos.

[Darkshade]

if you're shard hunting as a means of making money then your ideals im sorry to say are completely wonky..

 

People will do so as a way of providing those in need of these items with them in exchange for currency.

There is nothing wrong with this notion, it's a pretty common occurrence in an MMO environment.

[TheRealPhatiman]

People will do so as a way of providing those in need of these items with them in exchange for currency.

There is nothing wrong with this notion, it's a pretty common occurrence in an MMO environment.

Of course not but logic would dictate that one would instead grind for a guaranteed outcome than one which relies solely on luck.when there's a demand for something then yes,people will see the gap and supply that demand,what i was trying to convey is that if shards as a means of acquiring wealth were to be taken away that in the greater scheme of things it wouldn't have a negative impact.people can still work towards the same end result(money)with them gone.. 

[PandaJJ]

 

yes,certain things should involve rng but when it comes to this certain circumstance I dont think progress should be decided on pure luck,a persons hard work should pay diffidence.

 

I wanted to comment on this as well, this is what I think this game should be aiming for. Besides shinies, there should be a clear correspondence between time spent and progress made. Currently, the lack of end game content makes this tough to achieve - if you were to immediatelly make all items be found 100% on the pokemon that hold them, they would be way too easy to obtain. In order to generalize this suggestion to other areas of the game with the same issue (item hunting), you would need to split those items into less valuable items in order to make it work. For example, you wuld have to make some kind of item that appears on chansey 100% of the time, and then make a guy that will give you a lucky egg in exchange for 20 of these items. In order to justify making items easier to obtain to in first place, the game needs more endgame content.

 

I had those same games in mind when making that comment,glad to see you atleast see what im getting at.but yes I agree with you wholeheartedly I just still dont think your suggestion is the way to go mate,but atleast you pro-actively trying to think of solutions for something thats so obviously a problem.so kudos.

 

Thank you for understanding. I also agreee with pretty much everything you have stated so far, and I understand that you do not support the suggestion.

[Darkshade]

Of course not but logic would dictate that one would instead grind for a guaranteed outcome than one which relies solely on luck.when there's a demand for something then yes,people will see the gap and supply that demand,what i was trying to convey is that if shards as a means of acquiring wealth were to be taken away that in the greater scheme of things it wouldn't have a negative impact.people can still work towards the same end result(money)with them gone..

 

I disagree, whilst RNG might make the time between finding a shard differ by half an hour they are generally a rather decent source of income - this is not something that should just be disregarded.

The RNG almost guarantees that you'll find a shard within a certain time frame, claiming that it relies solely on luck is just false.

[PandaJJ]

I disagree, whilst RNG might make the time between finding a shard differ by half an hour they are generally a rather decent source of income - this is not something that should just be disregarded.

The RNG almost guarantees that you'll find a shard within a certain time frame, claiming that it relies solely on luck is just false.

 

Since the short term consistency of farming money vs farming shards is so much higher, most people prefer to farm money. For this reason, people farming shards are able to sell for profit. Both things are equally boring, so people who want to remain sane will want to farm as seldom as possible. If anybody had the patience to farm more shards than they need at once, this would not be a problem. However, since you are currently encouraged to farm money instead of shards, the few people who somehow manage to farm more shards than they need can sell it for profit. Shard farming is not luck reliant in the long run - sanity is another thing that does not remain in the long run.

[TheRealPhatiman]

I disagree, whilst RNG might make the time between finding a shard differ by half an hour they are generally a rather decent source of income - this is not something that should just be disregarded.

The RNG almost guarantees that you'll find a shard within a certain time frame, claiming that it relies solely on luck is just false.

fair enough,so let me rephrase that "Partly/to an extent relies on rng"the point I was trying to make was that losing shards as a form of income wouldn't matter to an extent,there are alternative and more productive methods to replace it,Im not saying they aren't a good form of income,I actually prefer hunting them over paydaying but if I wasn't lazy then realistically paydaying would be the better form of income..and I agree they shouldn't be disregarded but in the same breath move tutors shouldn't be as difficult as they are to acquire and standardizing them as a whole opens up its availability to every one.shards don't need to be abolished but perhaps re assigned a use.the current system makes story line tutors somewhat an exclusive thing to have when they should be readily available to every one.as it is there's a huge gap in the comp scene because of a multitude of reasons and this just adds to it...[spoiler].a fun idea would be to make them trad-able for bp,rarer shards such as green being worth more(maybe 50 bp?) while the more common ones such as yellow a fraction of that,not only would shards hold their place in the market but perhaps become even more desirable and also offer the opportunity to players who cant farm trainer tower,or simply dont want to(the rng is so stronk in there) an alternative way in acquiring moves most people dont have access to.only a handful of people actually farm trainer tower successfully and as a result richer more experienced players are literally the only ones with access to these moves,while Im all for event moves being exclusive to a degree(that's exactly what they were meant for)the average Joe should still be afforded an equal chance to atleast work towards obtaining it..what im trying to say is,offer a system for acquiring basic/normal/story line moves that is more readily accessible to every one and make shards have more of an exclusive use,whether it be a bp trade out or something else entirely.(greens for macho braces,reds for lefties,yellow for lightballs/soothebell and blues for exp shares?)the means currently dont justify the end[/spoiler]

[Shaniqualela]

 

just used 50 thief pp in ever grande city, fishing with super rod, TRYING to hunt red shards.

The only pokemon there are:

 

Wailmer: ran from these, weren't common

Corsola: only found 3 of them, none of which were holding shards. 0 red shards 

Luvdisc: I theifed them and found 29 heartscales

 

I'm completely fine with a reasonable grind that pays off, but this is just ridiculous. All this time for not even one red shard, when i need three for a move.

It is obviously broken. Blue/Yellow shards are at an ok level, I wouldn't mind seeing them slightly buffed though.

The main problem is Red/Green shards. They are much too hard to find with this RNG based system. Something needs to be done.

 

 

edit:

another 50 pp later

I have encountered 7 Corsola, 0 holding shards.

I now have a stock of 55 heart scales.

[spoiler] 

[/spoiler]

 

posted this in that shard topic in general, thought it might show how stupidly hard it can be to get shards.

(last time i hunted them i got 3 red shards in less than an hour, this time i spent almost 3 hours before i gave up empty-handed) 

[Gilan]

make shards reqards for pokemon cintests once they get implemented. #rekt

just kidding. I didn't think that through at all.

I think people should remember that it doesn't matter on the individual level. Whether or not you find 3 shards in 3 minutes or 1 shard in 3 days is of no consequence. If too many or too few are being found on the system scale then action needs to be taken. So if you are able to buy the items from other players fairly consistently, then nothing needs to be changed.

[Shaniqualela]

make shards reqards for pokemon cintests once they get implemented. #rekt

just kidding. I didn't think that through at all.

I think people should remember that it doesn't matter on the individual level. Whether or not you find 3 shards in 3 minutes or 1 shard in 3 days is of no consequence. If too many or too few are being found on the system scale then action needs to be taken. So if you are able to buy the items from other players fairly consistently, then nothing needs to be changed.

But you can't buy red/green shards consistently. There simply aren't enough being generated and the way to get them is way too inconsistent

[MatheusEdu7B]

I don't encounter any shards in 4hours, i like that idea!!!!