DrCraig Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Hariyama Viable Moves: Offensive: Cross Chop / Superpower Fire/Thunder/Ice Punch Fake Out Focus Punch Facade Low Kick Rock Slide Earthquake Knock Off Status: Bulk Up Whirlwind Belly Drum Common Movesets*: *I'm not going to list EVs because I am not 100% positive on them, or they can vary. ChoiceBand / Offensive Hariyama Item: Choice Band / Leftovers Nature: Adamant Ability: Guts Moves: - Superpower / Cross Chop - Thunder Punch - Ice Punch - Focus Punch / Fake Out / Fire Punch / Facade Bulk Up Hariyama Item: Leftovers Nature: Adamant / Impish / Careful Ability: Thick Fat Moves: - Superpower / Cross Chop - Ice Punch - Bulk Up - Rest / Thunder Punch Other set idgaf Fat Machamp has a lot of room to switch in and a lot of room to do massive damage. Thick Fat and Guts give Hariyama a lot of room to switch in along with its great bulk. Not many walls can successfully stop it once it gets going. And a priority move is nice also am I right? Too many shaky checks, not enough counter. Fat Machamp should go to BL along with the skinny one. Edited March 4, 2015 by DrCraig Toast, fredrichnietze, JIceJDragon and 2 others 5 Link to comment
Goldeneyes Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I'd mention some things that do well against it, but you made discussion threads for them too. DrCraig, Robofiend, karimologia and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think Fatman should stay, so far it seems a little underpowered compared to something like hitmonlee Bestfriendss and karimologia 2 Link to comment
Tyrone Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 More thoughts / calcs on this guy? Thick Fat Careful Bulk up set seems pretty strong. DrCraig 1 Link to comment
DrCraig Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 More thoughts / calcs on this guy? Thick Fat Careful Bulk up set seems pretty strong. Bulk Up set seems strong, but it really cannot cover the tier while including its STAB move. Machamp and Hariyama are so similiar I don't know it isn't moved for its CB set. I only did calcs for pokemon which can come in on Hariyama, and deal some damage without getting bulk ups to the face. There really is not perfect coverage for bulk up Hariyama unless you run Return, CrossChop, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Bulk Up, Rest in one set. It is notably walled and phazed by Grumpig. Vs. Slowking +1 4 Atk Hariyama ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 84-100 (41.5 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 4 SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hariyama: 102-120 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Vs. Hypno 4 SpA Hypno Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hariyama: 80-96 (31.8 - 38.2%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery +1 4 Atk Hariyama Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hypno: 61-72 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Vs. Grumpig 4 SpA Grumpig Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hariyama: 92-110 (36.6 - 43.8%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery +1 4 Atk Hariyama Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Grumpig: 63-75 (33.6 - 40.1%) -- 40.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Vs. Claydol +1 4 Atk Hariyama Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Claydol: 70-84 (41.9 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 4 SpA Claydol Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hariyama: 78-92 (31 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery Vs. Exeggutor +1 4 Atk Hariyama Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Exeggutor: 114-136 (56.4 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Exeggutor Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hariyama: 162-192 (64.5 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 4+ SpA Exeggutor Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hariyama: 134-158 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 108 SpA Exeggutor Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hariyama: 134-158 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Can't hit without specific punches which take away from coverage: Slowking Gligar Tangela/Vileplume/Bellosom/Grass Stuff Altaria Claydol Crobat Exeggutor Mantine Nidoqueen Tentacruel I'd say the CB set is probably more threating. Not in the mood to calc it. Link to comment
epicdavenport Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Hariyama doesn't seem to be bothering anyone. Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Hariyama doesn't seem to be bothering anyone. It bothers me. And I think I may be of the population known as "anyone". [spoiler] but that fucking cow bothers me even more [/spoiler] Bestfriendss and RysPicz 2 Link to comment
Havsha Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Vs Amphoras 252 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hariyama: 204-241 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252+ Atk Hariyama Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 132-156 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Granted, this isn't including any bulk up boost, or EQ (As Earthquake would not be a common move on Haryama with his wide moveset) Vs Clefable 252+ Atk Hariyama Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 0 SpA Clefable Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hariyama: 188-222 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO I have taken into account that Clefable is not a fairy type for the calculations. If Clefable were to run counter, it would be a different story. Vs Steelix 252+ Atk Hariyama Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 150-176 (42.3 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 4 Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 144-169 (29.2 - 34.3%) -- 3.6% chance to 3HKO 4 Atk Steelix Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 238-280 (48.3 - 56.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO Granted you would only use explosion when you know you are going to faint, in which case Hariyama would have taken a fair amount of damage, but presuming its a panic move, even an explosion won't guarantee a kill. Vs Donphan 252+ Atk Hariyama Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 146-172 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 256-303 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Donphan seems like he can handle Hariyama. Link to comment
Senile Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Vs Amphoras 252 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hariyama: 204-241 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252+ Atk Hariyama Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 132-156 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Granted, this isn't including any bulk up boost, or EQ (As Earthquake would not be a common move on Haryama with his wide moveset) Vs Clefable 252+ Atk Hariyama Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 0 SpA Clefable Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hariyama: 188-222 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO I have taken into account that Clefable is not a fairy type for the calculations. If Clefable were to run counter, it would be a different story. Vs Steelix 252+ Atk Hariyama Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 150-176 (42.3 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 4 Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 144-169 (29.2 - 34.3%) -- 3.6% chance to 3HKO 4 Atk Steelix Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 238-280 (48.3 - 56.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO Granted you would only use explosion when you know you are going to faint, in which case Hariyama would have taken a fair amount of damage, but presuming its a panic move, even an explosion won't guarantee a kill. Vs Donphan 252+ Atk Hariyama Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 146-172 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 256-303 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Donphan seems like he can handle Hariyama. Use the Gen 4 calc, there's some very blatant issues here. For example 0 Atk Steelix Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 246-290 (98 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO Not to mention, none of the calcs are at 50, and also, >Hariyama using Return; wat DrCraig 1 Link to comment
semjon Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Guts makes this thing really a beast, cause toxic (or wow haunter) is everywhere, and then it hits even harder... Link to comment
OldKeith Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 We saw this monster in action yesterday. Guts, Bulk Up. An offensive, unbreakable tank that steamrolls over teams. Two types can beat him: -Psychics - they get trapped by one of the many dark types -Flying types - they will get walled by any steel Hariyama can easily be part of a team that allows it to sweep effortlessly and I think it is banworthy. Havsha 1 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hariyama can easily be part of a team that allows it to sweep effortlessly and I think it is banworthy. <Team synergy argument> Link to comment
DrCraig Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 <Team synergy argument>Amount of support Hariyama needs argument Robofiend 1 Link to comment
OldKeith Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Amount of support Hariyama needs argument Just needs to shield itself from psychics, that's pretty much it. DrCraig 1 Link to comment
DrCraig Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Just needs to shield itself from psychics, that's pretty much it.Was correcting Robo, but yea Robofiend 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Ban King Yama. EDIT: It's like Granbull in the old meta. Something that isn't OHKO'd by like anything and can dish out an insane STAB attack in return to wipe out the majority of the meta. It also has access to damn near any of the top tier physical attacks in the game and thus has the coverage to back-up that insane STAB. Yes, Superpower I'm looking at you. Toss in Bulk-Up and you have an S-Class assassin available to wreck. I don't think it fits in the meta considering we lack a reliable immunity to STAB Fighting attacks. Haunter and Misdreavus alone just don't cut it with the plethora of powerful Pursuit users. Edited March 29, 2015 by DoubleJ Link to comment
Noad Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I'm by no means a UU player but from the officials I've seen, Hariyama is insane. Bulk Up, STAB and 2 Elemental Punches for coverage- I've watched it rip apart teams after 1-2 Bulk Ups. Kanzo, DoubleJ and Frag 3 Link to comment
Shaniqualela Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 >complain about walls >ban wallbreakers because they can't be walled Robofiend 1 Link to comment
NikhilR Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 >complain about walls >ban wallbreakers because they can't be walled Who is complaining about walls? Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Watched the 64 man tournament today and saw Hariyama put the pain train down on everyone. Hell even a CB Fake-Out was effective on this thing (cough cough it won the tournament). OldKeith 1 Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 >complain about walls >ban wallbreakers because they can't be walled I mean this thing is pretty much a wall and a wallbreaker, I can see why it is so strong. It's different from Zangoose, or Scizor. Link to comment
OldKeith Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 As a lead, not much can force Hariyama out. There is nothing you can safely bring in on Hari assuming it is going to bulk up. Superpower punishes about anything barring psychics, and Ice Punch punishes Gligar and Altaria. Even Sableye, which remains a good wall for specific sweepers, falls down to 2 bulk ups, it cannot toxic fearing guts or damage back. Psychic can do a good amount of damage, but the abundance of Dark types in UU (Sneasel, Houndoom, Cacturne, Sharpedo, Umbreon) all have pretty much safe switches into that, and no Psychic can prepare for all of them. I think Hariyama is too much for UU. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
Tyrone Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The UU Council has decided to ban Hariyama to BL (or in the case of PokeMMO to OU). We feel like Hariyama is banworthy under the Offensive Characteristic as it is able to beat most of the meta without too much trouble. Due to the special split, Hariyama now has access to elemental punches that give him perfect coverage alongside his massive attack stat. despite its weak defenses the huge hp stat lets it absorb several hits. once in it is able to set it with ease with bulk up to help give it further protections. Both abilities are useful to Hariyama with guts it becomes a status absorber to further boost its large attack stat while thick fat allows Hariyama to take more special shots (threat of guts alone has the potential to deter status moves on Hariyama) Hariyama is now banned to BL (OU) Archinix, Blue, DoubleJ and 4 others 7 Link to comment
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