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[UU Discussion] Espeon (Banned from UU to BL)


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*my first one of these things don't hurt me if i do something wrong, kthx*

 

Notable Moves:

 

Psychic

Calm Mind

Substitute

Morning Sun

Shadow Ball

Reflect 

Hyper Voice

Signal Beam

Heal Bell

Hidden Power (just mentioning cause I ran it on mine all the time)

 

Bring in Espeon, set up Reflect to guard you physically, CM up about 1 or 2 times.

Access to instant Recovery.

It's fast.

With the choice between  4 strong attacking moves, it can be a pretty nasty threat.

 

With it's ability Synchronize, you can't even toxic it without getting poisoned yourself (Unless you're a Steel Type, of course.)

 

Discuss.

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poison type can toxic it ofc without fear of being poisoned but stab psychic makes then cry. 

 

main problem i see is sig beam + psychic coverage covers everything but steel types, and none of them can really give espy trouble. cm set can set up to easy.

 

not going to do calcs yet....

but looks like umbreon can counter it

max spdef wish/protect + fakeout crunch kangas can counter it

max spdef cm slowking (as if anyone runs this)

cb aggron

maybe physical pory2?

miltank?

 

doesnt look very good to me

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With Morning Sun, Umbreon is set up on then shit on by signal beam at like, +2/3. Too lazy to calc tho.
Scizor is a decent answer to a non hp fire one but no bug move hurts it.

poison type can toxic it ofc without fear of being poisoned but stab psychic makes then cry. 
 
main problem i see is sig beam + psychic coverage covers everything but steel types, and none of them can really give espy trouble. cm set can set up to easy.
 
max spdef cm slowking (as if anyone runs this)
cb aggron
maybe physical pory2?
miltank?
 
doesnt look very good to me


These are decent answers to espeon though Aggron is just worn down over time or just flat out dies to hp water and slowking just turns into a calm mind crit fight.

oh and grumpig can phaze with whirlwind or calm mind up, but cm wars are bad m'kay.

sry if im wrong, its been a long day
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but looks like umbreon can counter it

I don't know what's run on Umbreon lately but:
 
+1 252 SpA Espeon Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 78-94 (38.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Espeon Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 104-124 (51.4 - 61.3%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Umbreons recovery is based on Wish + Protect. Predict the Wish or Protect, Get another CM up.
 

 

max spdef wish/protect + fakeout crunch kangas can counter it

If you're running that exact moveset simply for Espy, doesn't that tell you something?
 
+1 252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kangaskhan: 96-114 (45.2 - 53.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kangaskhan: 127-151 (59.9 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

max spdef cm slowking (as if anyone runs this)

Just A standard Timid Espy from Showdown, didn't know what set to pick
 
0 SpA Slowking Surf vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 57-67 (39.3 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Slowking Surf vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 84-100 (57.9 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

+1 252 SpA Espeon Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 88-104 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Espeon Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 116-138 (57.4 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 





 
 

cb aggron
maybe physical pory2?

Aggron I'll give you, unless Espy is running HP Ground/Fire.
 
Pory2:
 
252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Porygon2: 58-69 (30.2 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Porygon2: 87-103 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Porygon2: 115-136 (59.8 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
I'm drawing a blank on what Physical P2's do, sorry, lf more sleep
 

 

miltank?

 

252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miltank: 69-82 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- 53.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miltank: 103-123 (50.9 - 60.8%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Miltank Body Slam vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 60-72 (41.3 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Miltank Body Slam vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Espeon through Reflect: 31-37 (21.3 - 25.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

 

Idt umbreon can counter hidden power espy. Maybe now with the split it can but I know it didn't use to. Toxic chancey may be able to get the job done tho.

Chansey gets Toxic'd too, Espy can run Heal Bell, and here's a calc.
 
252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Chansey: 54-64 (15.1 - 17.9%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
What else will Chansey do to Espy? Hypothetically, Chansey could be set up bait if it has Heal Bell / Morning Sun / CM / Fill in 1 attack here.

 

 

Houndoom

+1 252 SpA Espeon Signal Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 78-92 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
+1 252 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Water vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 146-172 (97.3 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
 
 
I can't say anything vs Bloo's arguement, Masters 2stronk.
Edited by Archinix
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If this needs to go, Alakazam needs to go too. It likely does even more than Espeon does, given it also has tons more utility behind it's belt as well. That and Steels can be beat with a touch of HP Ground/HP Fire and voila.

 

Our standard Special Walls can't even beat these things too well, given Chansey loses to sets with Morning Sun/Heal Bell/Sub provided no Seismic Toss, and Umbreon is kinda iffy as well for similar reasons. Apart from that, I'm pretty sure nothing else adequately checks this thing, given it's power and speed which allows them to kill everything without a resist at +1. 

 

Maybe the threads for these two can be bound together given their similarities? I don't know. 

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i got one of these, hp waters lol, fire too :P so dunt ban lel

LF toxic (lum) umbreon counter

[spoiler]No idea if the throw - trick CB works.[spoiler]Also:

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Faint Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 186-222 (108.1 - 129%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Swellow Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 174-205 (101.1 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO[/spoiler][/spoiler]

Edited by liotec
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Ok archi was getting ridiculous with the morning sun heal bell calm mind mono attack set, but did you really just suggest morning sun, heal bell, AND sub to beat chansey, yagami? Let's keep the sets within reason. The likely set we need to be evaluating is CM/ morning sun/ psychic / signal beam or a relevant Hp.

And imo it's too strong for UU hah

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Ok archi was getting ridiculous with the morning sun heal bell calm mind mono attack set, but did you really just suggest morning sun, heal bell, AND sub to beat chansey, yagami? Let's keep the sets within reason. The likely set we need to be evaluating is CM/ morning sun/ psychic / signal beam or a relevant Hp.

And imo it's too strong for UU hah

Haha i like some of the sets these guys are coming up with xD I think archie said he could run toxic to beat chansey too.

 

You guys do understand that it doesnt have to beat everything to be OP right? 

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Ok archi was getting ridiculous 

:)

 

I think archie said he could run toxic to beat chansey too.

No what I was referring to was an ability called Synchonize where if they (Chansey) toxic'd you, you'd be Toxic'd yourself while both can heal it off (Heal Bell / Aromatherapy)

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Ok archi was getting ridiculous with the morning sun heal bell calm mind mono attack set, but did you really just suggest morning sun, heal bell, AND sub to beat chansey, yagami? Let's keep the sets within reason. The likely set we need to be evaluating is CM/ morning sun/ psychic / signal beam or a relevant Hp.

And imo it's too strong for UU hah

I don't think Espeon even need morning sun, sub can be a nice option to avoid any dark switch in while they think you are going to cm and you can signal beam back or switch out without worries about pursuit.

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252+ Atk Choice Band Umbreon Bite vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 164-194 (95.3 - 112.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO[/size]
+1 252 SpA Espeon Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Umbreon: 104-124 (51.4 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO[/size]
gg?[/size]

How often have you seen a Choice Band Umbreon?
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idk about this. zam is has shittyer defs

 

zam 55 / 50 / 45 / 135 / 85 / 120

espy  65 / 65 / 60 / 130 / 95 / 110

 

so bulky zam doesnt really work.

but a 252spd satk zam is scary. 120 speed topped off with a 135 satk is just too much.

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