LionKIng Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Do i even need to explain why? It's too strong > Discuss Edit: I was asked to explain why so im gonna take the wise words of wisdom of Mr.Senile >>>> Sets up with ease due to it's incredible bulk, hits very hard, has incredible coverage, has tons of viable sets beyond just it's sweeper set, and it's spooky as fuck. Discuss. Edited January 17, 2015 by LionKIng Link to comment
Tyrone Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Do i even need to explain why? It's too strong > Discuss Yes you need to explain why. Robofiend, OldKeith, Noad and 3 others 6 Link to comment
Senile Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Yes you need to explain why. Sets up with ease due to it's incredible bulk, hits very hard, has incredible coverage, has tons of viable sets beyond just it's sweeper set, and it's spooky as fuck. Discuss. kek. Vaeldras and LionKIng 2 Link to comment
flavajabari Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 don't forget sandstorm! Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Yes you need to explain why. ^althou im tempted to ban it myself. movepool of: superpower crunch EQ rockslide e punches pursuit dragon claw outrage irontail dragon dance focus punch ice beam fireblast taunt sub hidden power grass hidden power dark AA surf tbolt base stats 100/134/110/95/100/61 edit i forgot sandstrom Edited January 17, 2015 by fredrichnietze Link to comment
LionKIng Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 don't forget sandstorm! Only 5 turn now , aint that bad but still. I saw too much people sweep with ease after only 1 DD Link to comment
LionKIng Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 ^althou im tempted to ban it myself. movepool of: superpower crunch EQ rockslide e punches pursuit dragon claw outrage irontail dragon dance focus punch ice beam fireblast taunt sub hidden power grass base stats 100/134/110/95/100/61 edit i forgot sandstrom you forgot surf, t bolt, Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 you forgot surf, t bolt, why would you run tbolt and surf thou? fire>tbolt for skarm as it also hits the other steel types and +1 252+ Atk Tyranitar ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 142-168 (59.9 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO +1 252+ Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 112-133 (47.2 - 56.1%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO 0 SpA Tyranitar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 72-86 (30.3 - 36.2%) -- 41.9% chance to 3HKO bulky waters are hit harder by the spec side anyways. idk what you would use surf for that ice beam cant do and i beam hits dragons harder. Link to comment
LionKIng Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 why would you run tbolt and surf thou? fire>tbolt for skarm as it also hits the other steel types and +1 252+ Atk Tyranitar ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 142-168 (59.9 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO +1 252+ Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 112-133 (47.2 - 56.1%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO 0 SpA Tyranitar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 72-86 (30.3 - 36.2%) -- 41.9% chance to 3HKO bulky waters are hit harder by the spec side anyways. idk what you would use surf for that ice beam cant do and i beam hits dragons harder. you seemed to put all the moves it could get, like dragon claw and iron tail and outrage , so yeah. Surf and Tbolt are as useless and gimmicky as a couple moves you listed there Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 you seemed to put all the moves it could get, like dragon claw and iron tail and outrage , so yeah. Surf and Tbolt are as useless and gimmicky as a couple moves you listed there dragon claw coverage combined with superpower is nearly perfect. but yea iron tail sucks point. added surf/bolt/AA/hp dark Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 To be fair I think it will most likely get the boot. But people were focused around Salamence much more so it got much more attention. Dugtrio is a big limiting factor against Ttar though. Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 To be fair I think it will most likely get the boot. But people were focused around Salamence much more so it got much more attention. Dugtrio is a big limiting factor against Ttar though. sub tytr thou makes it hard for dug to switch in. and if DD set dug cant wait for tytr to kill something sometimes. imo flygon and swampert are better counters althou they arent hard counters with ice beam/punch and hp grass options. still 4mss Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 sub tytr thou makes it hard for dug to switch in. and if DD set dug cant wait for tytr to kill something sometimes. imo flygon and swampert are better counters althou they arent hard counters with ice beam/punch and hp grass options. still 4mss Swampert stopped being a counter to Ttar the moment he got physcal Crunch, Swampert can't take those. Probably the hardest counter to Tyranitar is like Hariyama or something, which is.. meh. Flygon also stopped countering Tyranitar with his acces to STAB Physical Crunch LionKIng 1 Link to comment
OldKeith Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Swampert stopped being a counter to Ttar the moment he got physcal Crunch, Swampert can't take those. Probably the hardest counter to Tyranitar is like Hariyama or something, which is.. meh. Flygon also stopped countering Tyranitar with his acces to STAB Physical Crunch Hitmontop doe. Link to comment
Robofiend Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Swampert stopped being a counter to Ttar the moment he got physcal Crunch, Swampert can't take those. Probably the hardest counter to Tyranitar is like Hariyama or something, which is.. meh. Flygon also stopped countering Tyranitar with his acces to STAB Physical Crunch Physically defensive Hitmontop dgaf Also wot physical Crunch? Do you calc brah? 252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Swampert: 108-127 (26.7 - 31.4%) -- 19.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery +1 252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Swampert: 84-100 (40.5 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 0 Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 218-258 (63.7 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO I'm not seeing how that nullifies Swampert, especially when ADV Ttar coud just run HP grass to cover Swampert if it wants to: Tyranitar Hidden Power Grass vs. Swampert: 193-228 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery I guess that doesn't account for the Def drop chance. 20% of the time Swampert's going to have to run and let Tyranitar keep steamrolling. Skarmory and Hitmontop are reasonable teammates for that though, although Taunt/Fire coverage makes Skarmory less of an option. Hitmontop, however, is pretty cool since it can provide Rapid Spin: 0 Atk Skarmory Steel Wing vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 116-140 (33.9 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 0 Atk Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 156-184 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 30.9% chance to 2HKO -1 252 Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hitmontop: 44-52 (14.4 - 17.1%) -- possible 5HKO after sandstorm damage -1 252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hitmontop: 46-55 (15.1 - 18%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after sandstorm damage 252 Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hitmontop: 66-78 (21.7 - 25.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage 252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hitmontop: 70-83 (23 - 27.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage Of course that doesn't prove Tyranitar isn't broken. It just shows that it has some checks/counters that can do OK against it. It's less obviously banworthy than it was this time last year. Link to comment
DrCraig Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hoenn just got here, let's atleast let a tournament run with it before we start up a ban train. Have some fun old man. Link to comment
YagamiNoir Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Tyranitar is very obviously banworthy after this split. It won't last too long, unless the community consensus in tournaments screams "hey it's gonna be banned I won't use one" and hindering the ability to make a tiering decision. Tyranitar is the literal epitome of offense. It's offensive diversity is indisputably the best in the game, for reasons I will now list out. Tyranitar's sets can bail down to Choice Band, Dragon Dance, and mixed sets. With the addition of physical Crunch, everything that doesn't resist it now has a 20% chance to be killed in two hits, also irrelevating former ADV checks such as Flygon that don't take Crunch well at all. Tyranitar has Fire Punch/Fire Blast to eliminate Steels such as Skarmory and Forretress, whereas otherwise better counters in the form of Machamp, Hitmontop and Hariyama, and to an extent Donphan are not used often enough to make their prominence viable enough to supress the dinosaur, and Machamp and Hariyama still don't take hits as well as one would think they do. Donphan also potentially dies in two Crunches. Unless there's actually a way and reason for Fighting types to be used and to be more prominent (bar something like maybe Heracross and Blaziken, both of which are frail) the metagame is certainly lacking in counters to Tyranitar. Pursuit also allows it to flawlessly eliminiate squishy Pokemon that want to switch out, which is usually a checkmate on Pokemon such as Gengar, Gardevoir and other Pokemon unless they predict really well with HP Fighting (and >breeding for HP) or have SubDisable/SubPunch (Gengar only). So there will be times you cannot avoid the kill from this thing. Tyranitar's low Speed is fixed by Dragon Dance alongside it's good bulk that allows it to set up on a lot of things. This set questions it's vulnerability to be revenge killed despite it's weaknesses, as it can outpace up to Starmie with Jolly and one Dragon Dance. It also gets Taunt to stop status to top it up. Mixed sets factoring Hidden Power Grass, Fire Blast or Ice Beam can also take care of minor annoyances to Tyranitar, such as Swampert and other Steel types. No matter how you look at it, Tyranitar can run different sets and still be the dangerous threat it is to everything. Finally another important factor in Tyranitar's offensive unhealthiness is Sandstorm. Despite the five turn nerf, negating Leftovers is still a big thing and this also synergizes well with teammates such as Magneton, Metagross and Flygon, who can benefit from Sandstorm while being immune to Sandstorm themselves, although this also applies to opposing Pokemon as well. Admittedly the introduction of Hoenn and new threars that are immune to Sandstorm sort of made it not as good as it is though. Although Reversal is probably an immense thing that needs Tyranitar's sand to deal with if it's gone, it also diminishes the viability of a sun or in some cases Rain teams from being used, cutting the ability to produce more Subs on some Pokemon, meaning it disrupts a fair few strategies. Tl; dr The offensive Tyrant of the metagame needs to be purged into the void. #BanTTar. Edited January 18, 2015 by YagamiNoir4896 LionKIng 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 After reading the above comments, I'm in favor of banning Tyranitar. It is simply too destructive and can easily manhandle the meta. It can even pack Ice Punch to remove a somewhat decent check in Flygon. Without Taunt, Skarmory can do a pretty decent job, but still flinch possibility and a +1 rock slide will take its toll. #banttar Link to comment
DoctorPBC Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I used hitmontop very succesfully when testing vs T-tar, however its literally the only surefire counter that I can think of. #problybanttar Draekyn and ShunGTX 2 Link to comment
YagamiNoir Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 After reading the above comments, I'm in favor of banning Tyranitar. It is simply too destructive and can easily manhandle the meta. It can even pack Ice Punch to remove a somewhat decent check in Flygon. Without Taunt, Skarmory can do a pretty decent job, but still flinch possibility and a +1 rock slide will take its toll. #banttar Ice Punch is not really necessary unless you're talking about those bulky variants. Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4/0 Flygon: 138-163 (88.4 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Ice Punch is not really necessary unless you're talking about those bulky variants. Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4/0 Flygon: 138-163 (88.4 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO Definitely bulky. If you have a problem with Tyranitar run something that can beat it, not something that dies as well. Flygon Superpower means rip if you can't ohko it Link to comment
ShunGTX Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Let me just come by and list all of the viable movesets for Tyranitar. Dragon Dance Well since Tyranitar is quite bulky, it can easily set up a DD and start sweeping the opponent's team. I feel like that Tyranitar should only be used in late-game because it does a wonderful job during late-game as a sweeper and should be used once Tyranitar's checks and counter are weaken, or even eliminated. Choice Band Choice Band turns Tyranitar into a complete all-out hard-hitting monster, this beast has a base attack stat of 134 and it even has a nice movepool. Like, even all of its STAB gets an even bigger boost and lets not forget about its famous ability Sand Stream. Because of its Rock-Typing it even gets a 50% Sp. Defense boost making this thing into a very bulky and hard hitter Pokemon. SubPunch Most people who've played the original 3rd gen meta-game knows a lot about this set, it's quite a legendary set if you ask me. What this set actually does back in the original 3rd gen meta-game is that it's a very powerful wallbreaker set and it is used to eliminate both Skarmory and Blissey, and because of Tyranitar having a base 100 HP stat, its Substitute couldn't be broken from Blissey's Seismic Toss. Fire Blast / Flamethrower was also used on this set in order to beat Skarmory, so it wouldn't get walled by it. Edited January 18, 2015 by ShunGTX Link to comment
YagamiNoir Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Let me just come by and list all of the viable movesets for Tyranitar. Dragon Dance Well since Tyranitar is quite bulky, it can easily set up a DD and start sweeping the opponent's team. I feel like that Tyranitar should only be used in late-game because it does a wonderful job during late-game as a sweeper and should be used once Tyranitar's checks and counter are weaken, or even eliminated.Choice Band Choice Band turns Tyranitar into a complete all-out hard-hitting monster, this beast has a base attack stat of 134 and it even has a nice movepool. Like, even all of its STAB gets an even bigger boost and lets not forget about its famous ability Sand Stream. Because of its Rock-Typing it even gets a 50% Sp. Defense boost making this thing into a very bulky and hard hitter Pokemon.SubPunchMost people who've played the original 3rd gen meta-game knows a lot about this set, it's quite a legendary set if you ask me. What this set actually does back in the original 3rd gen meta-game is that it's a very powerful wallbreaker set and it is used to eliminate both Skarmory and Blissey, and because of Tyranitar having a base 100 HP stat, its Substitute couldn't be broken from Blissey's Seismic Toss. Fire Blast / Flamethrower was also used on this set in order to beat Skarmory, so it wouldn't get walled by it. The Special Defense boost doesn't apply in PokeMMO. Link to comment
ShunGTX Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The Special Defense boost doesn't apply in PokeMMO. wow that's really disappointing, well I can kind of see why. Link to comment
RysPicz Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 As much as I'd love to finally use the TTar I bought for 50k on tard chat, that much I don't think it should be allowed in OU, hopefully today's Oceanic will only give hard proofs for that. Nothing really much for me to add, arguments provided earlier are seriously solid. #banttar [spoiler]and ban dugtrio too[/spoiler] OldKeith 1 Link to comment
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