General Thread: Physical/Special split testing

[ThinkNice]

Staff has proposed the option of having the gen IV split in our game. From experience I can say that this will provide a much faster paced metagame with offense being more viable. This thread serves as a general discussion thread for the tests that will be done by us: the players. I will cut the testing in several phases, these phases will take some time to complete but as long as the first phase is acceptable it doesn't matter. The first phase basically is there to know if we want the split or not.

 

Phase I: PokeMMo Egg moves + Tutor moves with split

Phase II: + gen IV moves

Phase III: + gen IV abilities

Phase IV: + gen IV items

 

Testing will be done on Showdown using Gen VI OU for your matches. Naturally only PokeMMO available Pok'emon may be used (including Hoenn Pok'emon). All legendaries will be disabled unless staff can tell us if we are getting some soon. Every phase will have its own thread for discussion. Because we are using gen VI on Showdown Knock Off is sadly banned from use, also note that move like FireBlast and Hydro Pump have lower base power. 

 

Anyone can participate in discussion. I will manage a banlist and a viability thread for each phase. The thread for the first phase will be posted soon. Suspect testing will be done and the current suspects will be in the thread title. Thoughts, feedback? Discuss! 

 

[DaftCoolio]

gib mvp cup

[Eggplant]

I was thinking we needed exactly something like this.

Of course you'd be the hero to step up. (;

I'll gladly participate.

[Kiliminati]

Staff, please oh please tell us that we are getting legendaries soon, I want my little Jirachi so badly! :'(

Edited January 2, 2015 by Kiliminati

[OrangeManiac]

Yes, I very much agree.

[spoiler]MVP cup please.[/spoiler]

[DoubleJ]

RIP Update.

[Robofiend]

Quickban Salamence?

 

also I just built a team on showdown, I'd love to test today if anyone's around

[DoubleJ]

Quickban Salamence?

 

also I just built a team on showdown, I'd love to test today if anyone's around

 

 

I'm working on one Robo bro, give me a minute

[londark]

Question, if you go with Gen IV Custom game won't you be able to get all the possible moves on pokes while having the right mechanics for most moves? I remember doing a custom battle in Gen III with Overheat Manetric even tho it should not be able to get it

[BurntZebra]

level 50 or level 100 for showdown testing? and would doing the testing in gen 4 custom work (like londar suggested), most of the special attacking moves were only decreased in gen 6, same with knock off, just in case we really wanted to run knock off on something, and hidden powers would remain 70 as well if testing was done in gen 4 customs. Not entirely sure if there are any flaws with using gen 4 customs though

[Senile]

>Metagross weak to Crunch

 

This literally has to be in Gen 4, not Gen 6.

[ThinkNice]

Fuck I forgot Steel lost resistances. If gen IV custom works we can use that. I didn't know it existed.

[DoubleJ]

Fuck I forgot Steel lost resistances. If gen IV custom works we can use that. I didn't know it existed.

 

Ya we had success with it. How do you want us to report back on these?

[Rigamorty]

Ya we had success with it. How do you want us to report back on these?

could probably post some replays along with observations in this thread.

[DoubleJ]

Double's Observations from Duels with Robofiend, Senile, and Amanu

 

1. Pursuit on Snorlax is going to be troublesome (as if you didn't know). It almost feels like we are chasing a Skarmory around with a Magneton, when we target those Gengars and Starmie's

 

2. All Gengar should probably carry Will-o-Wisp to combat CB Snorlax (still kills you, but you at least cripple it in the mean time; disable would be an even better option). Unfortunately Gengar has major 4MSS now having to choose between STAB moves and coverage. 

 

3. Dragon Dance Tyranitar is still an enormous advantage, and now with Dual-STAB (Crunch + Rock Slide), it's even scarier and no longer slowed down by the Dusclops + Claydol Combo (RIP Both)

 

4. Swampert is the best bulky water in the game and will be decent against the physical monsters such as Dragonite, Tyranitar, Metagross, and Salamence. Considering the difficulty of HP breeding during the initial stages post-update we should see some real good use out of this thing. 

 

5. CB Salamence with physical Dragon Claw is unbelievably strong. With only one resistance every team will need to run a steel-type and prey that Magneton isn't around...

 

6. Magneton + Dugtrio + a physical sweeper was seen on nearly every team each of us ran. Dugtrio is pretty scary with Choice Band vs Sub-versal options and Magneton is only slightly limited by Hidden Power choice.

 

7. Paralysis spam (Thunder wave ftw) will likely play a major role in stopping the big hitters as Cleric use becomes difficult to pull off.

 

8. Spikes + Sandstorm is still a nightmare, and with even more offensive pressure the opportunity to spin is going down the drain (think Starmie being trapped by Snorlax when it tries to spin)

 

 

My assessment: Pursuit might need to be banned to open up more options. Tyranitar and Salamence will need to be tested immediately. Special attackers are nerfed drastically, aside from Gengar, which is still going to see a drop in usage due to Pursuit trapping. 

 

UU? I don't even know. 

[BenGorgon]

One thing that I was thinking about while running through some possible teams, is the absolute neccisity of Choice Spec implementation. As noted above, Special Attackers are taking a rather huge hit without them.

[Noad]

Would it be possible to link replays of the battles in this thread if that is okay with ThinkNice? Also good job to all of those who have tested it out already. :)

[DoubleJ]

We were pretty awesome and forgot to save em. In the future for sure. The excitement of playing something new with decent players got the better of us. 

 

 

EDIT: Here's one, DugMag combo is fucking nasty if you aren't prepped. 

 

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4customgame-199315201

Edited January 3, 2015 by DoubleJJ

[codylramey]

Sandstorm needs to play by 6th gen rules if that is possible in 4th gen custom. Ill make a team as soon as someone tells me how to do it for 4th gen custom. 

 

Also in pokemmo, since the sandstorm mechanics changed to 6th gen, does that mean that ttar is getting spcl def boost again?

[fredrichnietze]

Quickban Salamence?

 

also I just built a team on showdown, I'd love to test today if anyone's around

^this. was banned in 4 originally now it has larger moveset with only negative being weaker outrage but smaller pond of pokemon. throw out the big fish lest eat the whole pond.

 

Double's Observations from Duels with Robofiend, Senile, and Amanu

 

1. Pursuit on Snorlax is going to be troublesome (as if you didn't know). It almost feels like we are chasing a Skarmory around with a Magneton, when we target those Gengars and Starmie's

 

2. All Gengar should probably carry Will-o-Wisp to combat CB Snorlax (still kills you, but you at least cripple it in the mean time; disable would be an even better option). Unfortunately Gengar has major 4MSS now having to choose between STAB moves and coverage. 

 

3. Dragon Dance Tyranitar is still an enormous advantage, and now with Dual-STAB (Crunch + Rock Slide), it's even scarier and no longer slowed down by the Dusclops + Claydol Combo (RIP Both)

 

4. Swampert is the best bulky water in the game and will be decent against the physical monsters such as Dragonite, Tyranitar, Metagross, and Salamence. Considering the difficulty of HP breeding during the initial stages post-update we should see some real good use out of this thing. 

 

5. CB Salamence with physical Dragon Claw is unbelievably strong. With only one resistance every team will need to run a steel-type and prey that Magneton isn't around...

 

6. Magneton + Dugtrio + a physical sweeper was seen on nearly every team each of us ran. Dugtrio is pretty scary with Choice Band vs Sub-versal options and Magneton is only slightly limited by Hidden Power choice.

 

7. Paralysis spam (Thunder wave ftw) will likely play a major role in stopping the big hitters as Cleric use becomes difficult to pull off.

 

8. Spikes + Sandstorm is still a nightmare, and with even more offensive pressure the opportunity to spin is going down the drain (think Starmie being trapped by Snorlax when it tries to spin)

 

 

My assessment: Pursuit might need to be banned to open up more options. Tyranitar and Salamence will need to be tested immediately. Special attackers are nerfed drastically, aside from Gengar, which is still going to see a drop in usage due to Pursuit trapping. 

 

UU? I don't even know. 

woudnt sub + disable gar get around cb lax?

[BurntZebra]

^this. was banned in 4 originally now it has larger moveset with only negative being weaker outrage but smaller pond of pokemon. throw out the big fish lest eat the whole pond.

 

woudnt sub + disable gar get around cb lax?

it would but gengar already has 4mss pretty hard, now it can use giga drain to hit swampert/tyranitar, hp ice for dragons, tbolt for other water types+flying types and strongest sp atk move

[DoubleJ]

^this. was banned in 4 originally now it has larger moveset with only negative being weaker outrage but smaller pond of pokemon. throw out the big fish lest eat the whole pond.

 

woudnt sub + disable gar get around cb lax?

 

I mentioned that Disable was the better option, thus I wanted to let players use their imagination on the adding Sub part. 

 

it would but gengar already has 4mss pretty hard, now it can use giga drain to hit swampert/tyranitar, hp ice for dragons, tbolt for other water types+flying types and strongest sp atk move

 

And also, this. 

[fredrichnietze]

for phaze II refernce http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_moves move# 355-467 

[RysPicz]

Salamence is super scary: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4customgame-199447588

 

Also I found this an interesting match because neither of us ran a Magneton (probably because Tranz is bad).

fixed the last part for you

 

You should've ran Superpower on Blaziken instead of Sky Uppercut :P

(Is Meteor Mash's accuracy  90% and 90 BP? o_O it tends to miss so often)

[codylramey]

(Is Meteor Mash's accuracy  90% and 90 BP? o_O it tends to miss so often)

Do you even pokemon bro. 90 =/= 90 in our world

Edited January 3, 2015 by codylramey