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Hidden Abilities


OldKeith

Question

Since I understand that post-update, the level up moves that exist in Gen III will abide by the Gen VI learn sets, I was wondering if introducing the abilities obtainable as hidden would become a possibility (as long as they exist in Gen III).

 

Example of how the Kanto pokemon would look like if this was implemented:

[spoiler]Venusaur - Chlorophyll

Blastoise - Rain Dish

Raticate - Hustle

Pikachu/Raichu - Lightning Rod

Ninetales - Drought

Vileplume - Effect Spore

Parasect - Damp

Golduck - Swift Swim

Poliwrath - Swift Swim

Tentacruel - Rain Dish

Golem - Sand Veil

Rapidash - Flame Body

Hypno - Inner Focus

Marowak - Battle Armor

Hitmonchan - Inner Focus

Lickitung - Cloud Nine

Kangaskhan - Inner Focus

Seadra - Damp

Seaking - Lightning Rod

Electabuzz - Vital Spirit

Magmar - Vital Spirit

Flareon - Guts[/spoiler]

 

Pros: More variety, more fun. None of these abilities will make the pokemon unbalanced in my opinion.

Cons: A solution must be found to obtaining a hidden ability. Giving it a random chance to appear works for the above, with the exception of Eevee, since there is no way of telling the ability of Flareon.

 

The Bulbapedia entry for Hidden Abilities:

[spoiler]Beginning in Generation Vmost Pokémon were given access to another Ability, referred to in-game as a Hidden Ability, if obtained under certain circumstances:

If a female Pokémon has a Hidden Ability and is bred, it has a 60% chance of giving that Ability to each of its children. Each of the other Abilities has a 20% chance of being passed down. In Generation V, Hidden Abilities cannot be passed down from male or genderless Pokémon, or when breeding with Ditto. In Generation VI, this was changed so that male and genderless Pokémon have the chance to pass down their Hidden Ability only when bred with Ditto.[/spoiler]

 

It might seem non canon at first, but let's admit Extremespeed/Superpower/Hp Flying (70 BP) never existed in GEN III, so if we are following the later gens as closely as possible, I think the Hidden Abilities should at least be discussed

Edited by keithgalbraith
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It might seem non canon at first, but let's admit Extremespeed/Superpower/Hp Flying (70 BP) never existed in GEN III, so if we are following the later gens as closely as possible, I think the Hidden Abilities should at least be discussed

Extremespeed was introduced at gen 2 and regi's had superpower at hoenn and nidoqueen, however i agree with your suggestion, if later gen mechanics are being used within the comp scene, hidden abilities should too.

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That list actually looks really cool. Although Guts Flareon might be what pushes it out of UU. Can anyone make a list with the remaining pokes?

 

would it without a toxic orb?  anyways I want it but idk the effect it would have on the game so I won't say I support it.

Edited by Uroko
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That list actually looks really cool. Although Guts Flareon might be what pushes it out of UU. Can anyone make a list with the remaining pokes?

 

I was actually thinking the same about Flareon. I will do the remaining after the official tonight.

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Drought Vulpix was left out of OP ( pretty sure Drought and Drizzle are implemented from an old changelog )

 

 

Flash Fire Cyndaquil

Plus Mareep

Drizle Politoet 

Early Bird Sunker

Vital Spirit Tyrogue

Intimidate Qwilfish ( This pls )

Water Absorb Chincho

Cloud Nine Lickitung

Immunity Gligar

Imnsonnia Delibird

Thick Fat Swinub

Sand Veil Phanpy

Water Veil Mantine

 

EDIT:

Sand Veil Larvitar

Marvel Scale Dratini

 

EDIT:EDIT: just in case

Flame Body Moltres

Static Zapdos

 

3 Dogs get Volt/Water/FlashF respective

 

Those should be the Second Gen pokes that will be able to get Hidden Abilities

Edited by londar
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Drought Vulpix was left out of OP ( pretty sure Drought and Drizzle are implemented from an old changelog )

 

 

Flash Fire Cyndaquil

Plus Mareep

Drizle Politoet 

Early Bird Sunker

Vital Spirit Tyrogue

Intimidate Qwilfish ( This pls )

Water Absorb Chincho

Cloud Nine Lickitung

Immunity Gligar

Imnsonnia Delibird

Thick Fat Swinub

Sand Veil Phanpy

Water Veil Mantine

 

EDIT:

Sand Veil Larvitar

Marvel Scale Dratini

 

EDIT:EDIT: just in case

Flame Body Moltres

Static Zapdos

 

3 Dogs get Volt/Water/FlashF respective

 

Those should be the Second Gen pokes that will be able to get Hidden Abilities

 

 

For some reason, I forgot Draught and Drizzle were from Gen I-III. Good observation, and Draught Ninetales might be too strong for UU.

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If Hidden Abilities were actually implemented in this game, wouldn't be quite different from Gen III comparing the fact that this game already have a differences between it.

 

EDIT: btw Drought Ninetales and Drizzle Politoed would be so OP in this gen srsly m9 don't make this game into Gen 5

Edited by ShunGTX
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Now with third Gen

 

Speed Boost Torchic ( Eww )

Damp Mudkip

Run Away Wurple

Compoud Eyes Dustox

Own Temp Lotad

Rain Dish Wingul

Rain Dish Surskit

Run Away Nincada

Minus Electrike

Lighting Rod Plusel

Volt Absorb Minun ( got some doubts about this one, took from Italian Poke Wiki, on Showdown i remember it having Lighting Rod )

Speed Boost Carvanha

Pressure Wailmer

Own Temp Numel

Shell Armor Torkoal

Water Absorb Cacnea

Cloud Nine Swablu

Swift Swimm Anorith

Cute Charm Milotic

Oblivious Spheal

Sturdy Relicanth

Sturdy Regirock

 

Should be all for 3rd Gen

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Holy shit this is such an amazing idea! :O I dont think we need to discuss whether they get OP or not honestly, the tiers will just regulate to fit it, that's what it has done before this for each new kind of update we got. I really think this would be a cool implementation to the game, not sure how to do it thought, but I will post again if I think of some cool way to get the abilities. Maybe dungeons/quests where you earn another kind of points (like trainer tower for event moves) ? I really think this would add a great deal to the game :D Well thought Keith!

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Pros: More variety, more fun. None of these abilities will make the pokemon unbalanced in my opinion.

Cons: A solution must be found to obtaining a hidden ability. Giving it a random chance to appear works for the above, with the exception of Eevee, since there is no way of telling the ability of Flareon.

This suggestion pretty much follows the reasoning of having implemented moves from other gens. More variety, more fun, as you said.

There's only so much more that can be said in support of this. Pretty much a dev yes/no decision.

I'm personally more interested in focusing the discussion on the 'cons' you mentioned.

Might as well make them fun to get.

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Holy shit this is such an amazing idea! :o I dont think we need to discuss whether they get OP or not honestly, the tiers will just regulate to fit it.

 

It's a huge deal if something potentially ends up in ubers due to the introduction of a new ability; that's yet another Pokemon pushed out of use in competitive play.

Such a thing cannot be disregarded from the conversation.

 

It seems rather unfair to introduce Hidden Abilities for some Pokemon and not others (because they don't exist), whereas with the introduction of new moves everything gets something new.

 

Even though not every Pokemon had their Hidden Ability introduced in Generations V/VI, the game had information on all of them; which is a luxury we do not have.

 

This would also mean a select few Pokemon suddenly have 3 potential abilities, whilst others still have one (many were gained with the introduction of new abilities in later generations).

 

Hidden abilities (most of the time) are usually the better option, and it would put focus on these individual Pokemon for no real reason.

 

I also have not gone over the lists included in this thread, but there were many Hidden Abilities that never saw a release and have never made it into any Pokemon meta to date.

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It's a huge deal if something potentially ends up in ubers due to the introduction of a new ability, such a thing cannot be disregarded from the conversation.

 

It seems rather unfair to introduce Hidden Abilities for some Pokemon and not others (because they don't exist), whereas with the introduction of new moves everything gets something new.

 

Even though not every Pokemon had their Hidden Ability introduced in Generations V/VI, the game had information on all of them; which is a luxury we do not have.

 

This would also mean a select few Pokemon suddenly have 3 potential abilities, whilst others still have one (many were gained with the introduction of new abilities in later generations).

 

Hidden abilities (most of the time) are usually the better option, and it would put focus on these individual Pokemon for no real reason.

 

I also have not gone over the lists included in this thread, but there were many Hidden Abilities that never saw a release and have never made it into any Pokemon meta to date.

Let's not pretend that every Pokemon got a useful new move out of that level-up moves update. While some pokes got some new cool uses A LOT of pokemon are 'left out'. 'B-but they did get new moves, jist not useful ones.'. I really don't see much of a difference.

 

Regarding tiers: tell that to Diglet and Dugtrio

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Let's not pretend that every Pokemon got a useful new move out of that level-up moves update. While some pokes got some new cool uses A LOT of pokemon are 'left out'. 'B-but they did get new moves, jist not useful ones.'. I really don't see much of a difference.

 

Regarding tiers: tell that to Diglet and Dugtrio

 

You're more than aware that Diglet and Dugtrio are being moved down for testing during the Hoenn update, and during council meetings we have established that if we can alter mechanics instead of kicking something into ubers then that is the option we'd prefer to take.

 

Not everything did gain something useful, but that's besides the point - it's a move in addition to the movelist that is already there. (Excluding perhaps event moves).

 

Hidden Abilities don't fit into that, they're not just 'Another ability' added on to the existing ones (And if they were, having some Pokemon suddenly house 3 is not a good idea), they're considered to be a completely different mechanic that many Pokemon miss out on for no reason other than 'Oh these don't exist yet'.

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 More variety, more fun, as you said.

Might as well make them fun to get.

Don't sabotage it eggplant

It's a huge deal if something potentially ends up in ubers due to the introduction of a new ability; that's yet another Pokemon pushed out of use in competitive play.

Such a thing cannot be disregarded from the conversation.

 

It seems rather unfair to introduce Hidden Abilities for some Pokemon and not others (because they don't exist), whereas with the introduction of new moves everything gets something new.

 

Even though not every Pokemon had their Hidden Ability introduced in Generations V/VI, the game had information on all of them; which is a luxury we do not have.

 

This would also mean a select few Pokemon suddenly have 3 potential abilities, whilst others still have one (many were gained with the introduction of new abilities in later generations).

 

Hidden abilities (most of the time) are usually the better option, and it would put focus on these individual Pokemon for no real reason.

 

I also have not gone over the lists included in this thread, but there were many Hidden Abilities that never saw a release and have never made it into any Pokemon meta to date.

1- Whether it will convert to ubers or not, as far as hidden ability goes, there is a chance that it wont have a hidden ability, that being two pokemons can be on seperate tiers depending on their ability, hence enhancing a larger uber tiers

2- Coz you know, its unfair for some pokemon that wont have hidden abilities but its fair not to implemented a full dex (equality for pokemon? really?)

3- Of course you do, its called "coding" (u know, like you did on the hidden power thingy?)

4- I'm sure we're all feeling sad for the pokemons that never got any hidden abilities, lets all have a moment of silence and continue on what we have on our hands, yes?

5- Srsly?

6- I guess you can have look to the released ones upto date, or are we gonna wait in patience untill every single pokemon has a hidden ability?

Edited by Malorne
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Politoad instant to Ubers cause Rain Dance still ain't fixed. [spoiler]Monday though... Monday... All my wishes will come true[/spoiler]

 

Ninetales will be moved up to OU I assume.

 

And honestly, out of the pokemon who would get hidden abilities for this game, only these two would be in contention for Ubers (then again, weather XI mechanics), or am I wrong?

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And honestly, out of the pokemon who would get hidden abilities for this game, only these two would be in contention for Ubers (then again, weather XI mechanics), or am I wrong?

 

No.

 

Both Toed and Tales would be quite ok in OU. The only real problem would be Speed Boost Firechicken.

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1- Whether it will convert to ubers or not, as far as hidden ability goes, there is a chance that it wont have a hidden ability, that being two pokemons can be on seperate tiers depending on their ability, hence enhancing a larger uber tiers

2- Coz you know, its unfair for some pokemon that wont have hidden abilities but its fair not to implemented a full dex (equality for pokemon? really?)

3- Of course you do, its called "coding" (u know, like you did on the hidden power thingy?)

4- I'm sure we're all feeling sad for the pokemons that never got any hidden abilities, lets all have a moment of silence and continue on what we have on our hands, yes?

5- Srsly?

6- I guess you can have look to the released ones upto date, or are we gonna wait in patience untill every single pokemon has a hidden ability?

 

1.) We would like to avoid complex bans.

 

There is no such thing as a 'larger ubers tier' because ubers itself is meant to contain the Pokemon too powerful for OU.

In other words it contains everything. (Except in generation VI due to Mega/Primal Pokemon, but that's not applicable to PokeMMO).

 

2). You're overlooking the point, those Pokemon do not exist within the game yet - that is the same as having Pokemon that already exist but lack additional support in certain areas.

 

Once those Pokemon are implemented, that support is already there to handle them.

This is not the case with Hidden Abilities.

 

3.) The amount work involved between these two things is almost non-comparable. - The introduction of Hidden Abilities require a new mechanic entirely in order to obtain them.

Adding them onto the same method required to obtain Special Moves would be a lazy excuse for 'additional gameplay'.

 

4.) See 2.

 

5.) Seriously.

 

6.) We have a comprehensive list availble for each released Hidden Ability, however that wasn't so much of a con as it was information that needed to be kept in mind during discussion.

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No.

 

Both Toed and Tales would be quite ok in OU. The only real problem would be Speed Boost Firechicken.

ahh, how did I forget that?

 

since when..

For a while now. Just never notice it cause Ttar banned to ubers.

 XD

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1.) We would like to avoid complex bans.

 

2). You're overlooking the point, those Pokemon do not exist within the game yet - that is the same as having Pokemon that already exist but lack additional support in certain areas.

 

Once those Pokemon are implemented, that support is already there to handle them.

This is not the case with Hidden Abilities.

 

3.) The amount work involved between these two things is almost non-comparable. - The introduction of Hidden Abilities require a new mechanic entirely in order to obtain them.

Adding them onto the same method required to obtain Special Moves would be a lazy excuse for 'additional gameplay'.

1- It is going to happen eventually

2- Same goes for hidden abilities, they don't exist within the game yet altho lacks additional support ;)

3- By defition you're saying that it "is" possible

It doesn't need to be done by tomorrow or anything, in a future point it would be nice to have them and it is something that needs to be looked at as far as the end game goes.

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@Darkshade

 

I understand some of your cons but I dont really agree with them, but this adds nothing to the discussion whether you agree with my arguments or I agree with yours. I still highly believe that will add some game content to an MMO which highly needs it(somewhere in the future). It might take a while to make, but that's kind of the point, the devs need to keep fixing things up so the meta's keep changing. Somewhere in the future adding hidden abilities makes a great opportunity for more farming and new ways to adapt to the meta hence making new comps aka more farming. You know the game economy and comps keeps getting better and are nowadays so good IV that you won't need a new one unless you "force" the meta to change, new spreads and ideas for your comps and teams. I hope you see where I'm getting with this, this idea is highly useful, at least somewhere in the future(sadly). And could be added with new ideas, we all know that the devs has been working on dungeons, it would considerable to add those hidden abilities to those. Also it's not a problem not to have a hidden ability, I mean even in later generations not all Pokemon has hidden abilities look at the generation 3 Pokemon(who doesn't have 1 at all): Baltoy, Cascoon, Castform, Celebi, Chingling, Clairol, Deoxys, Flagon, Gastly, Gengar, Groudon, Haunter, Jirachi, Koffing, Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Lunatone, Metapod, Mew, Misdreavus, Pupitar, Rayquaza, Shedinja, Silcoon, Slaking, Slakoth, Solrock, Unown, Vibrava, Vigoroth and Weezing. ALL of them dont have a hidden ability, honestly I dont see the problem in having a few more not having their hidden ability since it doesn't exist here, just like all level up moves from later gens will be possible here doesn't mean they should get moves that doesn't even exist here. Feel free to give your comments on why you dont think it should exist, but dont throw stones and say things that you have already said. This isn't a discussion of opinions.

 

edit: fixed an important word that was missing lol

Edited by SirGaryOak
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The way it looks now it does seem like a big mess. But if you look at it another way, it is a beautiful start with tons of new resources.

 

Potential problems:

1. Some pokemon might have three abilities, while others just one. But that is possible in Gen VI too. Weezing is just one of many pokemon that can only have one.

To avoid the confusion (Noobert wondering why he cannot get a Hidden Ability on Gengar), we can simply have a NPC called the Hidden Ability Guru, who can take a look at a pokemon you show him and he will tell you if it can get a hidden ability. Same principle as the trainer tower, where a pokemon can get Event Moves or not, depending on species. You check if it can, if it can not, no problem.

 

2. Some of the pokemon will have their ability make them a bit too strong for their respective tier. Summoning weather can deem Ninetales and Politoes too strong for NU, and Speed Boost can deem Blaziken too strong for OU. But I am sure They can be included in the lower tier with a notice that it can only be played with its hidden ability in the upper tier. This can be accompanied by the automation of a duel creation, where ability is checked as well before it can get created. It is basically the same way noobs learn that OP items cannot be used in competitive play.

 

We have precedents, and I think it is possible. Even if you guys are not going to implement them, I think a theoretical discussion can do no harm. I like the way the community responded to the suggestion and everyone seems excited.

Edited by keithgalbraith
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