Sturdy to act like it does in Gen 5 and 6

[Ultimatechris]

I believe sturdy should act like it acts in the pokemon generations of 5 and 6 as it would add a little more usefulness to it in competitive battles and also make people think outside the "box" when trying to OHKO these types of pokemon namely skarmory.

 

Right now sturdy has no use whatsoever, but I feel as if it was given the same effect as in generations 5 and 6, it would see a little more light and day. I don't know how this would affect the current meta, but I would love to see how (always seem to find a negate impact of something suggested).

[fredrichnietze]

i would say no as i find it very annoying and broken with the missing multi hit and nyi buffs to implemented multi hit moves.

[Darkshade]

I believe I don't know how this would affect the current meta, but I would love to see how (always seem to find a negate impact of something suggested).

 

Negatively, Skarmory would benefit too much from the change.

From my understanding Skarmory is already quite the pain to deal with, with the implementation of Generation V Sturdy, it would become a further pain, and guarantee at least a single layer of spikes.

[Mike]

Negatively, Skarmory would benefit too much from the change.

From my understanding Skarmory is already quite the pain to deal with, with the implementation of Generation V Sturdy, it would become a further pain, and guarantee at least a single layer of spikes.

And he will be able to WW magneton out which is one, maybe his biggest threat.

[Ultimatechris]

Negatively, Skarmory would benefit too much from the change.

From my understanding Skarmory is already quite the pain to deal with, with the implementation of Generation V Sturdy, it would become a further pain, and guarantee at least a single layer of spikes.

Well it does act like a focus sash, but there could be other ways people could go about it, and it would encourage different ways of dealing with pokemon with that ability.

 

And he will be able to WW magneton out which is one, maybe his biggest threat.

Also whatever comes in would finish it off next turn.

[Mike]

Also whatever comes in would finish it off next turn.

 

Most teams also run Vaporeon, or any wish user. Giving it the option to get to full health and getting another layer of spikes up with some good predicting. Ofc you have rapid spinners but still.

 

Also that would make pokemon like forretress, who can explode and have the ability sturdy, kinda strong. Sturdy+berry then explosion yeah that is a dead pokemon unless a ghost type.

[JonazDK]

Sorry chris but if skarmory got that kind of study we would have to ban it... -.-

[Arkhelien]

Well, by the time Focus Sash and the new Sturdy mechanics were implemented the game was already different from what we have now. One signifiant move that helped against those which we don't have is Stealth Rock, as it keeps breaking sashes and sturdies of most Pokémons without giving them the chance to get to full HP by the time you threaten them out. Apart from that, if I am not mistaken, Sturdy mechanics were changed in gen 5, when VoltTurn became a thing and the faster pace it implied balanced out the Sturdy ability by as well breaking it on expected switches and wearing the users down to a point where they had a hard time getting back to full health to abuse Sturdy.

Right now Gen V Sturdy would be a bit too much, in my opinion.

[Mike]

Well, by the time Focus Sash and the new Sturdy mechanics were implemented the game was already different from what we have now. One signifiant move that helped against those which we don't have is Stealth Rock, as it keeps breaking sashes and sturdies of most Pokémons without giving them the chance to get to full HP by the time you threaten them out. Apart from that, if I am not mistaken, Sturdy mechanics were changed in gen 5, when VoltTurn became a thing and the faster pace it implied balanced out the Sturdy ability by as well breaking it on expected switches and wearing the users down to a point where they had a hard time getting back to full health to abuse Sturdy.

Right now Gen V Sturdy would be a bit too much, in my opinion.

I also forgot to mention this in my own posts; Spikes are a thing, they break sturdy. And most of them know rest but hold leftovers so then again you can still kill it.

[Arkhelien]

I also forgot to mention this in my own posts; Spikes are a thing, they break sturdy. And most of them know rest but hold leftovers so then again you can still kill it.

Looking at your posts here I don't even understand if you're for or against this suggestion.

Anyway, Spikes are indeed a way to get past Sturdy but, unlike Stealth Rock, they have a poor distribution and against a Leftover user you have to get up at least two layers of Spikes in order to unable it to get back to Sturdy in two turns of Leftovers recovery. Right now the only spikers we have are Skarmory, Cloyster, Forretress, Qwilfish, Cacturne, Omanyte, Delibird, Roselia and Glalie. With Roselia and Delibird being way too frail to fully abuse the move, you're left with 7 possible users of the move, which is nowhere near the astounding distribution of the previously mentioned rocks.

And then you have that annoying metal bird that doesn't even care about Spikes breaking its Sturdy. I really don't think our mechanics and moves are the place for Gen V Sturdy to kick in.

[Senile]

Basically, what everyone else said. The reason Gen 5 Sturdy was added was to give it competitive use, but the only reason it was even allowed to have that affect is Stealth Rock. Focus Sash was implemented Gen 4, and it became incredibly common for suicide leads for obvious reasons, but the reason such an item was even created is because Stealth Rock was a very easy "counter" to it. If you had a sash and rocks were up on your side, you essentially wasted your item. That is why Focus Sash even existed, because while it could potentially be a very strong item, the opportunity cost is that sometimes, it will literally be completely useless and you would have been better off with another item.

Generation 5 Sturdy frees up your item slot and gives pokemon who before had no "useful" ability one which is now quite good, but in exchange, there are more ways around it than there is around Focus Sash. There are of course entry hazards, but Mold Breaker, Teravolt, and Turboblaze will also render Sturdy useless. Auto weather in the form of Hail is also a potential answer (even if Abomasnow is mostly worthless in Gen 6), whereas in Gen 3, the only auto weather we have available is Sandstorm. There are two problems with this, the first being that Tyranitar is banned, and even if he wasn't, all Sturdy users other than Pineco (loool) are immune to Sandstorm.

So, basically, we're missing most potential answers to Sturdy. Skarmory is the only Sturdy user immune to spikes, but it's also basically the best pokemon that has Sturdy to begin with. In fact, if Skarmory had Sturdy, it would be basically impossible to kill it in 1 turn. There would be no hazard to automatically remove the Sturdy, and the only way to remove the Sturdy passively is if you have Hail up prior to Skarmory coming in. The problem with this is that Hail is completely unviable, it has no automatic/permanent spawners, no abilities interact with it in Gen 3, and Blizzard doesn't get the accuracy boost in Gen 3. There is basically no incentive to use Hail other than trying to break a Sturdy user, and this still technically requires 2 of your turns AND an extra moveslot. Skarmory isn't weak to any multi-hit moves, and the multi hit moves that exist are generally very weak and unviable to begin with.

It's already been shown how strong unbreakable Sash/Sturdy users can be, Gen 5 Alakazam being a good example. Prior to getting Magic Guard, Alakazam was worthless, but after Magic Guard was released, Magic Guard + Focus Sash meant it was one of the most effective revenge killers in the game, as anything that was within kill range of it generally couldn't beat it. Likewise, a full health Skarmory could easily serve as the single best check available to any setup sweeper, as regardless of the amount of boosts they have Skarmory could simply phaze them out at 1 HP.

 

But, beyond all this, it's important to look at what pokemon actually get Sturdy. Most of the pokemon which get Sturdy are already viable in their own tiers, they don't need a buff. Aggron, Donphan, Forretress, Golem and Steelix are all viable in UU. Skarmory and Magneton are both amazing in OU, and Magneton is going to run Magnet Pull anyway. Shuckle is going to be quite viable in NU when it's moved down, and it can't really exploit sturdy anyway.

Not only that, but some of the pokemon listed have another viable ability they can use anyway (Rock Head Golem/Aggron, for example), and while some don't such as Donphan, they don't really need the buff to be good. Hell, in Donphan's example, it's a Rapid Spinner anyway, so it usually won't be able to abuse it's ability as it has to take hazard damage to spin them away anyway.

 

TL;DR: Not needed, Skarmory doesn't give a fuck, Gen 5 =/= Gen 3, Stealth Rocks OP

[Ultimatechris]

Well the many downside to it in gen 3, I guess it would mess things up with lack of entry hazards.
I see it is very unneeded then

[ShunGTX]

Ok as you can see. Sturdy is an ability in 3rd gen that only negates 1-hit OK moves like sheer cold, fissure etc. But in other gens they changed it so that if skarmory ever gets hit by a STAB thunderbolt or any effective moves, sturdy will activate to keep skarmory alive with 1HP. This can only work if the Pokemon is at full HP

[Arkhelien]

Ok as you can see. Sturdy is an ability in 3rd gen that only negates 1-hit OK moves like sheer cold, fissure etc. But in other gens they changed it so that if skarmory ever gets hit by a STAB thunderbolt or any effective moves, sturdy will activate to keep skarmory alive with 1HP. This can only work if the Pokemon is at full HP

Yeah, that's what we've been talking about. Though, it is not as you say, that only effective moves will activate it, but any hit that the Pokémon receives at full health and has enough power to 1HKO.