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[Denied] Stricter policies regarding scamming


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Oh noes, someone lost a Graveller, it's not like they can catch another one!

Seriously, it's trust and blind faith that get people scammed.

It might be the scammers that's the problem, but the only way to get rid of them at all is to close the game. Permanently. No Game, No Scammers.

 

I suggest.

Shinies: Don't let others hold on to them without some form of garentee (i.e. Payment, like selling.)

[Spoiler]

I mean, who wants to borrow a shiny except to show off with it (Or a scammer's case, steal it)?

[/Spoiler]

Comps: Loaning comps in teams and between friends is common, with "friends" you might want to know it's coming back to you (i.e. Payment again or a similarly precious item/Pokemon)

[Spoiler]

Seriously though, with all the UTs out there, you can buy/breed more if you need to...

[/Spoiler]

 

To sum it up: Don't give people your stuff for free. Ever. Also, double check everything is in order before you skip all those confirmations.

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perhaps a possible solution could be to allow cms to sift through the majority of complaints and forward on the ones they feel could be considered scamming to the Gms/SGms,having absolutely no role in the final decision making.even if 1-2 cases were dealt with regularly it could serve as an example to the other wanna be scammers out there,if they know its a punishable offense they'l tread alot more carefully,hopefully serving as a deterrent,whilst it is a near impossible task its not something that cant be done,Im not saying deal with every single case,but at the very least make an effort,show the community something is actually being done about it...

 

Its not about the value of whats gotten scammed,its the thought behind it,its the fact that its happening and nothing is done about it,while you make extremely valid points(being a former staff member and having the first hand experience to back it up)the fact is something should be done about it,no matter how minute,no matter how minuscule,if nothing is done to curb the behaviour nothing will change...rome wasn't built in a day

Again, you're assuming CM's will be given access to chat logs, which is a stretch at best. Not only that, but I think you're underestimating just how many reports of scams they'd probably get in a day; I wouldn't be surprised if it was 100+ a day, and sifting through chat logs to find the supposed scamming isn't always going to be easy, if necessarily ever.

For your plan to work, CM's would have to be given the power to see chat logs (no), use their judgement on what's a scam, send the case to the GM/SGM, the GM/SGM has to find the logs and look at the case, decide if it was scamming, decide what to do if everything, and then they're done with 1 case.

You're underestimating how much work the higher staff ALREADY have, and how long dealing with a scam report actually takes. Again, it is not currently possible.

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To be frank moderating every "I lost my level 64 kadabra" scram is a waste of the staff's time. I don't think they look less professional if there is "scamming" in the game. The only people who look bad are the people scamming (why do you need more mid to high level Pokemon LOL) and the ones being scammed. The only time I really shake my head or care is when it's shiny trading because those are actually worth something. At that point the trader is losing reputation etc, higher end trading moderators itself so to say.

@Gilan, I think you have good intentions but it's unrealistic and you're painting the picture that you live in a fairy tale world.

The staff pays GMs who do things that legitimately contribute to the game. Events = keeps players interests, banning bots = keeping the game "fair", etc. Do you know what moderating trades for scamming does? Nothing in the long run. It's babysitting. People have to manage their own affairs in game to some extent, everything past that is spoon feeding and actually bad for the game/community. In example: in today's PokeMMO person A is scammed, they get upset and they learn their lesson. In the PokeMMO all of you dreamers want person A gets scammed, reports it, then gets scammed again, reports it, then gets scammed again, reports it, etc. It's just making more work with no true benefit. You can't prevent all the scams, you can't save everyone. Most of the people being scammed are casuals who come and go anywho.

You may look at the staff's response to trading as bs but it's legitimately the truth. They don't moderate trades, and all "scams" are just that- trades. Someone traded something and they weren't cautious or they regretted it. People can't steal Pokemon from you, they can't force you to agree to the trade THREE times haha.

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The main reason we can't moderate trade disputes is because there are far too many and not enough people to deal with them. There are a lot of players, and therefore a lot of scamming. Staff aren't going to be hired just to spend however long investigating every case then demanding that the thief return the Pokemon either. Every case would have to be properly investigated to ensure that people aren't faking their report, and nobody has time to do that for likely dozens of cases daily.

 

We give players the tools to make sure they're getting what was agreed on when trading, but can only do so much (as in nothing at all) when players blindly trust each other and get their lv20 Kadabra stolen. CMs are always happy to help with evolving Pokemon, and asking them or a friend isn't particularly difficult and always encouraged.

 

Making an example by punishing one scammer is only going to make things worse too. If we punish one, we MUST punish them all, which is again not possible. It would be unfair and inconsistent if one person's report resulted in a scammer suffering the consequences then another person's was answered with "be more careful next time". Even if this weren't the case, one scammer being punished wouldn't be known by every other scammer and new ones would pop up anyway.

 

What it all boils down to is that it's simply not possible to moderate scamming. There is just nothing we can do. Scamming isn't something anyone enjoys and we've done pretty much all we can to prevent it. For a trade to go through, the player needs to accept three times. Item icons are visible next to the Pokemon and shininess is indicated. Next update the font will be adjusted to make I look like I (preventing name fraud) and commas will be added to money amounts to stop a digit from being easily removed without the other player noticing. The rest is in the hands of the players, and gullibility isn't something that we can cater to or account for.

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Again, you're assuming CM's will be given access to chat logs, which is a stretch at best. Not only that, but I think you're underestimating just how many reports of scams they'd probably get in a day; I wouldn't be surprised if it was 100+ a day, and sifting through chat logs to find the supposed scamming isn't always going to be easy, if necessarily ever.

For your plan to work, CM's would have to be given the power to see chat logs (no), use their judgement on what's a scam, send the case to the GM/SGM, the GM/SGM has to find the logs and look at the case, decide if it was scamming, decide what to do if everything, and then they're done with 1 case.

You're underestimating how much work the higher staff ALREADY have, and how long dealing with a scam report actually takes. Again, it is not currently possible.

 

 

To be frank moderating every "I lost my level 64 kadabra" scram is a waste of the staff's time. I don't think they look less professional if there is "scamming" in the game. The only people who look bad are the people scamming (why do you need more mid to high level Pokemon LOL) and the ones being scammed. The only time I really shake my head or care is when it's shiny trading because those are actually worth something. At that point the trader is losing reputation etc, higher end trading moderators itself so to say.

@Gilan, I think you have good intentions but it's unrealistic and you're painting the picture that you live in a fairy tale world.

The staff pays GMs who do things that legitimately contribute to the game. Events = keeps players interests, banning bots = keeping the game "fair", etc. Do you know what moderating trades for scamming does? Nothing in the long run. It's babysitting. People have to manage their own affairs in game to some extent, everything past that is spoon feeding and actually bad for the game/community. In example: in today's PokeMMO person A is scammed, they get upset and they learn their lesson. In the PokeMMO all of you dreamers want person A gets scammed, reports it, then gets scammed again, reports it, then gets scammed again, reports it, etc. It's just making more work with no true benefit. You can't prevent all the scams, you can't save everyone. Most of the people being scammed are casuals who come and go anywho.

You may look at the staff's response to trading as bs but it's legitimately the truth. They don't moderate trades, and all "scams" are just that- trades. Someone traded something and they weren't cautious or they regretted it. People can't steal Pokemon from you, they can't force you to agree to the trade THREE times haha.

 

 

The main reason we can't moderate trade disputes is because there are far too many and not enough people to deal with them. There are a lot of players, and therefore a lot of scamming. Staff aren't going to be hired just to spend however long investigating every case then demanding that the thief return the Pokemon either. Every case would have to be properly investigated to ensure that people aren't faking their report, and nobody has time to do that for likely dozens of cases daily.

 

We give players the tools to make sure they're getting what was agreed on when trading, but can only do so much (as in nothing at all) when players blindly trust each other and get their lv20 Kadabra stolen. CMs are always happy to help with evolving Pokemon, and asking them or a friend isn't particularly difficult and always encouraged.

 

Making an example by punishing one scammer is only going to make things worse too. If we punish one, we MUST punish them all, which is again not possible. It would be unfair and inconsistent if one person's report resulted in a scammer suffering the consequences then another person's was answered with "be more careful next time". Even if this weren't the case, one scammer being punished wouldn't be known by every other scammer and new ones would pop up anyway.

 

What it all boils down to is that it's simply not possible to moderate scamming. There is just nothing we can do. Scamming isn't something anyone enjoys and we've done pretty much all we can to prevent it. For a trade to go through, the player needs to accept three times. Item icons are visible next to the Pokemon and shininess is indicated. Next update the font will be adjusted to make I look like I (preventing name fraud) and commas will be added to money amounts to stop a digit from being easily removed without the other player noticing. The rest is in the hands of the players, and gullibility isn't something that we can cater to or account for.

In hindsight maybe i was being ignorant by thinking it was as easy as just doing it,You've all made valid points that i have no counter argument for,i just felt strongly enough about it that i thought perhaps something could be done about it,perhaps in future a solution will arise,but as it stands it seems nothing could realistically be done to curb this,I've taken all the problems of moderating this into consideration and have begun brainstorming a possible solution(goodluck me lol) I really just wish there was something that could be done.thank you all for you constructive input... 

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Making an example by punishing one scammer is only going to make things worse too. If we punish one, we MUST punish them all, which is again not possible. It would be unfair and inconsistent if one person's report resulted in a scammer suffering the consequences then another person's was answered with "be more careful next time". Even if this weren't the case, one scammer being punished wouldn't be known by every other scammer and new ones would pop up anyway.

 

Personally, I disagree with this statement. I think phatiman may be right.

The reason people buy tram/train tickets is because of the random checks. They know that it's possible they'll get punished even if unlikely.

Of course, some people get away. But it doesn't matter. Some scammers would get away too.

If people knew that it's possible that they could get caught, they might not attempt it.

It's completely fine to not punish them all, imo. I'm not that comfortable with the thought of never being able to do anything ever to help a player about this.

Indeed, there's nothing more we can do to automate trade moderation.

But, I mean, we're human, with the ability to judge. Not computers. We don't necessarily need that much more extra staff to pull this off. I'd volunteer.

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In hindsight maybe i was being ignorant by thinking it was as easy as just doing it,You've all made valid points that i have no counter argument for,i just felt strongly enough about it that i thought perhaps something could be done about it,perhaps in future a solution will arise,but as it stands it seems nothing could realistically be done to curb this,I've taken all the problems of moderating this into consideration and have begun brainstorming a possible solution(goodluck me lol) I really just wish there was something that could be done.thank you all for you constructive input...

Good luck! :)

@Eggplant, one of the worst things you can do as mod is be inconsistent. The community will prey on you for doing so, this is why you can't punish some and not others. "Why does he get punished for scamming but when she scammed me nothing happens? CORRUPT MODS. You must just like her/dislike me!!" Etc.
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Good luck! :)

@Eggplant, one of the worst things you can do as mod is be inconsistent. The community will prey on you for doing so, this is why you can't punish some and not others. "Why does he get punished for scamming but when she scammed me nothing happens? CORRUPT MODS. You must just like her/dislike me!!" Etc.

oh no, people will say bad things about this games staff, what a new and terrible problem

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I support this but I believe they don't have something called PCP(Police Control Panel) to trace history trades of a certain accnt and character in a specified date and time .. By this pcp you can ease up banning those hackers/scammers once traced and proved. Adding a report player thread that may be visible to the public would be better too for the ppl to know who they need to avoid or know the latest trend of scamming tactics ..

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I kinda just feel like it is a huge problem... as Emlee said, my intentions are good. I also feel like acknowledging the fact that scamming is wrong, and then saying that yeah something should be done about it, but it just isn't possible is kinda lame... Because it is possible if somebody actually worked towards it... AGH, it's just so morally wrong, it irks me  :unsure:

 

 

But, I mean, we're human, with the ability to judge. Not computers. We don't necessarily need that much more extra staff to pull this off. I'd volunteer.

if it helps, I would volunteer...

 

 

I support this but I believe they don't have something called PCP(Police Control Panel) to trace history trades of a certain accnt and character in a specified date and time .. By this pcp you can ease up banning those hackers/scammers once traced and proved. Adding a report player thread that may be visible to the public would be better too for the ppl to know who they need to avoid or know the latest trend of scamming tactics ..

 

nah, that wouldn't be good. Would have too many issues of innocent players being accused for doing noting wrong...

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Hypothetically if i scammed your shiny pidgey off of you wouldnt it be my word against yours, you could say i scammed it and i could say that i didnt

yeah, that's something called hearsay. that's why a chat log and a record of the trade would have to be in place...

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yeah, that's something called hearsay. that's why a chat log and a record of the trade would have to be in place...

 

sounds like a alot of extra work for CM's and stuff when all people need to do is double check

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I support this but I believe they don't have something called PCP(Police Control Panel) to trace history trades of a certain accnt and character in a specified date and time .. By this pcp you can ease up banning those hackers/scammers once traced and proved. Adding a report player thread that may be visible to the public would be better too for the ppl to know who they need to avoid or know the latest trend of scamming tactics ..

 

Even with this there would not be evidence. There would just be a record of trades. It would still be your word against their word.

 

Adding further to that would be the following:

  • While manpower can be cited as a valid concern, the case still boils down to he/she said. This issue should be addressed with an SGM.
  • Even though Runescape has a system for punishing scammers, they do not replace items lost in a scam.
  • A lot of scams are due to a user believing that there really is an exploit involved with trading that they wish to take advantage of.
  • Players still give out their passwords.

 

Thank you for your feedback; we know your intentions are good, but I think we can all see now that there is no effective way to combat scamming at the moderator/GM level.

Edited by XelaKebert
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