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Volpi

Breeding for HP

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Quote

FORMATTED HP/ATT/DEF/SPA/SPD/SPE

Fighting:
Spoiler

EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
(Good for Banette, Crobat, Arcanine, Rapidash, Dodrio, Flareon, Octillery)

Flying:
Spoiler

ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD
(Good for Gyarados, Heracross, can be stronger than Aerial Ace)

Poison:
Spoiler

ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD
EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD
ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD
EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD
(Really provides no notable coverage)

Ground:
Spoiler

ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD
EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD
ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD
EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN
(Good for Scizor, Kabutops, Crobat, Dodrio)

Rock:
Spoiler

ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN
ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN
(Good for Gyarados, Tauros, Scizor, Breloom more accurate than Rock Slide)

Bug:
Spoiler

ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN
ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD
ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD
(Good for Dugtrio, Scizor, Pinsir, physical Tyranitar, Forretress)

Ghost:
Spoiler

EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD
ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD
EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD
ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD
(Good for Muk, Fighting types, Tauros, Dodrio, Scizor, Pinsir)

Steel:
Spoiler

EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD
ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD
EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN
ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN
(really provides no notable coverage)

Fire:
Spoiler

EVEn/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN
ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN
EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN
ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN
(Good for Alakazam, Espeon, Gengar, Magneton, Exeggutor, Venusaur, Victreebel, Vileplume)

Water:
Spoiler

EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN
ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN
EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD
ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD
(Good for Alakazam, Espeon, Gengar, Electric types)

Grass:
Spoiler

EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD
ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD
EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD
ODD/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD
EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD
(Good for Tyranitar, Blissey, electric types)

Electric:
Spoiler

ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD
EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN
ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN
EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN
(Good for Cloyster, Jynx, Espeon, Kingdra, stronger than shock wave)

Psychic:
Spoiler

ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD/EVEN
EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN
ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN
EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN
(Provides no notable coverage)

Ice:
Spoiler

ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD/EVEN
EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD
ODD/EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD
EVEN/ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD
(Good for Electric Types, Alakazam, Exeggutor, Gengar, Espeon, Muk)

Dragon:
Spoiler

ODD/ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD
EVEN/EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD
ODD/EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD
EVEN/ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD
(Good for Kingdra)

Dark:
Spoiler

ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD/ODD




First of all, I like to thank Controller for his insightful previous guide at how to find you hidden power through narrowing IVs.
This thread would never been made without his been made first, and the info you find there is crucial to do this. Don't worry though, I have it quoted above here so you can pick the HP you need and start of with finding your parents.

In this guide I will take 1 of the given HPs and I will explain simply how you should find your parents to breed the HP you need most efficiently

For the record, this is not a guide as much in how to achieve a certain HP for an individual although it could be used for that as well, but more one that teams can use so each member can find their pokemon of choice and specialize on breeding several of them for the entire team.

Traders could also take use of this information to breed their certain HP more frequently and thereby also get more babies worth much when selling than they would when just breeding for higher IVs.

When explaining what to do, I will here take fighting, but what I now show with fighting, you can apply to any of the typings.



Fighting:
Advanced/explaining spoiler
[spoiler]
Fighting:
Spoiler

EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN



What you see here is all the combinations which ends up in HP fighting.
Even being an even IV
0-2-4-6-8-10-12-14-1-6-18-20-22-24-26-28-30

and

Odd being an odd IV
1-3-5-7-9-11-13-151-17-19-21-23-25-27-29-31


Okay we also see at fighting we got 5 potential combination which give us HP fighting. What we now do is analyze how often Even would end up in fighting and how often ODD would end up in fighting

even/odd | even/odd | even/odd | even/odd | even/odd | even/odd
3/2 | 3/2 | 4/1 | 5/0 | 5/0 | 5/0

Okay so first thing we see here is that all speed, sp.def and sp.atk HAS to be EVEN. This is important as this is the most error people who go for breeding as good something as possible make. When you change parent for a better IV parent for a pokemon that rely on a certain HP to be useful, you might make it harder for yourself to achieve this. And the problem most often occur when people go for getting HP which require EVEN IV as they would switch out the parent for one with 31 in that stat.

You might be a little confused now as why this matters. The reason is that when breeding, 3 IVs is directly inherted by parents which would mean that 2 parents with 31 IV already has a 50% chance to give the offspring 31 IV directly on top of that +3/-8 randomizer for the others.

First thing we see here is that we can't get odd number on speed sp.atk sp.def if we want a HP fighting offspring. A breeder who wants to keep breeding for a certain HP should therefor not use any parent who has odd in either of these 3 unless he has no other choice. Optimally he will get parents who at this point has x/x x/x x/x E/E E/E E/E


Again sorry to confuse at this moment x=unknown E=Even O=Odd. And this is meant to show the IVs of the 2 parents (1 on each side)
Lets say I am breeding a 31-31-21-26-31-31 Male gyarados with a 31-29-31-31-28-24 Female Qwilfish this would be:
O/O O/O O/O E/O O/E O/E

What I now would been doing is trying to get all the 3 last to be E for both parents.

Further more we can see dence is 4 even 1 odd. This means we are more likely to hit one of the HP fighting combinations with even defence, so if you plan to get several HP fighting, you should get even here as well. For health and atk it is 3 to 2, and the difference is slightly lower. A team breeder should breed for 31 atk and a trader should breed with 30 atk in my opinion here if the HP fighting is considered crucial to be able to take use of the pokemon in talk.

This means for breeding fighting frequently, you want parents with even in the first 3 and need parents with even in the last 3 to be able to get them.

[/spoiler]

Less explaining and more to the point. For the one who more or less already know this...

[spoiler]

Fighting:
Spoiler

EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
ODD/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN
EVEN/EVEN/ODD/EVEN/EVEN/EVEN


3/2 | 3/2 | 4/1 | 5/0 | 5/0 | 5/0

Offsprings need even IV for speed sp.def and sp.atk if you want HP fighting. It is also much easier with even in defence, and slightly easier with even in atk and health.

When looking for parents, as far as you can, you should therefor look for
30/30 30/30 30/30 30/30 30/30 30/30
Red been absolute, blue been highly recommended and green been favoured
[/spoiler]


Why this matter
[spoiler]
Ok so some might wonder now, "why does it matter if my parents has this or that IV when the IV is determined by +3/-8 ratio anyway." and "This can hardly make much difference"

The thing is that 3 of the IVs is directly inherited from parents which mean that if any of these 3 stats are outside what is possible to get the certain HP, it would ruin the whole egg. On the other side if all 3 is fitting, then it gets much more simple to get the given HP.[/spoiler]

EDIT:

List of all types and the ratios between odd even

[spoiler]

Basically frequency between even/odd for each typing

______________
Fighting(5)
3/2 3/2 4/1 5/0 5/0 5/0
______________
Flying
2/2 2/2 1/3 4/0 4/0 3/1
______________
Poison(4)
2/2 2/2 3/1 4/0 4/0 0/4
______________
Ground(4)
2/2 2/2 1/3 3/1 4/0 1/3
______________
Rock(4)
2/2 2/2 3/1 0/4 4/0 4/0
______________
Bug(5)
2/3 3/2 2/3 0/5 5/0 3/2
______________
Ghost(4)
2/2 2/2 2/2 0/4 4/0 0/4
______________
Steel(4)
2/2 2/2 2/2 2/2 2/2
______________
Fire(4)
2/2 2/2 2/2 4/0 0/4 4/0
______________
Water(4)
2/2 2/2 2/2 4/0 0/4 2/2
______________
Grass(5)
3/2 2/3 2/3 5/0 0/5 0/5
______________
Electric(4)
2/2 2/2 3/1 1/3 0/4 3/1
______________
Psychic(4)
2/2 2/2 1/3 0/4 0/4 4/0
______________
Ice(4)
2/2 2/2 3/1 0/4 0/4 1/3
______________
Dragon(4)
2/2 2/2 1/3 0/4 0/4 0/4
______________
Dark(1)
0/1 0/1 0/1 0/1 0/1 0/1
[/spoiler]


P.S.


I will leave this here, if anyone who understands this is willing to rewrite it so it is easier to understand, then feel free to do so.
Might be I edit some myself later when I feel like doing so,

Again, if you like to credit anyone for this guide, credit Controller, it is his list of combination of Hidden power, all I wrote here is how to apply that info to breeding

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I'll leave some of my notes since breeding for certain HP is my passion and hobby.

First and most basic rule of HP breeding is the special defense.

ODD Special Defense= Special Hidden Power (or steel).

EVEN Special Defense= Physical Hidden Power.

Now, to the point (just some minor things):

I'd modify the quote so it will fit to the current metagame. I don't see any reason for Blissey to use HP grass while it has access to boltbeam combo, as well as Muk for HP Ghost (Shadow Punch) or Arcanine/ Rapidash with HP Fighting (Double Kick).

 

I'll give my own advices, maybe someone will find that helpful.

[spoiler]1. ALWAYS NARROW DOWN YOUR IV'S FULLY. This is crucial for HP breeding, one diffrent IV can screw up the whole process of getting the desired HP. Despite what people say, HP on Dittos does matter and better narrow it down fully and write down it's hp.

2. Choose your breeders carefully. Especially try to avoid diffrent spdef combinations (ex. parents with 29 and 30 sdef) as this will screw you up hard and make the process longer. If breeding for physical HP, always try to aim for parents with both even sdef, and when breeding for spatk hp, aim for odd sdef.

3. More advanced breeding requires breeding parents with identical combination. It's hard to achieve but certainly not impossible and will speed up everything. Try to aim for certain combination, not just certain Hidden Power.

4. ALWAYS NARROW DOWN YOUR IV'S FULLY. I'm writing this once again so you will know how important that is.

5. Some hidden powers are harder to get then the others, just don't give up after 5-6 babies! ;)[/spoiler]

Still, very nice guide :) Although people need to read it carefully and slowly, that's pretty advanced shit. :P

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Nice guide volpi !!  :P

Looks a lot like a smogon I read once(I think - but they have everything so that wouldn't surprise me)

 

Also this can be really helpful imo: https://www.smogon.com/ingame/guides/breeding_guide_part4

 

 

I'll leave some of my notes since breeding for certain HP is my passion and hobby.

First and most basic rule of HP breeding is the special defense.

ODD Special Defense= Special Hidden Power (or steel).

EVEN Special Defense= Physical Hidden Power.

Now, to the point (just some minor things):

I'd modify the quote so it will fit to the current metagame. I don't see any reason for Blissey to use HP grass while it has access to boltbeam combo, as well as Muk for HP Ghost (Shadow Punch) or Arcanine/ Rapidash with HP Fighting (Double Kick).

 

I'll give my own advices, maybe someone will find that helpful.

[spoiler]1. ALWAYS NARROW DOWN YOUR IV'S FULLY. This is crucial for HP breeding, one diffrent IV can screw up the whole process of getting the desired HP. Despite what people say, HP on Dittos does matter and better narrow it down fully and write down it's hp.

2. Choose your breeders carefully. Especially try to avoid diffrent spdef combinations (ex. parents with 29 and 30 sdef) as this will screw you up hard and make the process longer. If breeding for physical HP, always try to aim for parents with both even sdef, and when breeding for spatk hp, aim for odd sdef.

3. More advanced breeding requires breeding parents with identical combination. It's hard to achieve but certainly not impossible and will speed up everything. Try to aim for certain combination, not just certain Hidden Power.

4. ALWAYS NARROW DOWN YOUR IV'S FULLY. I'm writing this once again so you will know how important that is.

5. Some hidden powers are harder to get then the others, just don't give up after 5-6 babies! ;)[/spoiler]

Still, very nice guide :) Although people need to read it carefully and slowly, that's pretty advanced shit. :P

And as Rys said the special defense rule is imo without doubt the most important rule: odd special defense is always special (and steel) even is always physical  ;) Another Protip: Listen to Rys if he has anything to add. I think he is well known as the #1 HP Breeder haha

 

Anyways looks good to me and it will definitely be helpful for those who didn't hp breed before! Ik the first part isn't anything you made but some of the be helpful for some pokes are kinda outdated like hp fire on alakazam or saying that hp electric is stronger than shockwave (all hp are 60)

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Ye whatever I put in quote at beginning was made by someone else, don't put too much into the pokemons listed or not there. I didn't bother to alter that as I personally believe HP should mainly be used as a surprise effect to take out something which think it has you walled.
 
Also good points RysPicz, I guess it was wrong of me to take that as obvious.
 
And yeah, I am sure someone could write this so it would be easier for people more new to breeding to understand. To take use of this, you would have to understand what I am talking about, and I may be confusing in the way I choose to explain this :P (I always assume the reader understand something he doesn't and rather explain what he would already understand.
 
Example:
listing the odd and even IVs 
 
 

 

Even being an even IV
0-2-4-6-8-10-12-14-1-6-18-20-22-24-26-28-30
 
and
 
Odd being an odd IV
1-3-5-7-9-11-13-151-17-19-21-23-25-27-29-31

but not how sp.def being even or odd define it being special or physical
 

 

"ODD Special Defense= Special Hidden Power (or steel).
EVEN Special Defense= Physical Hidden Power."
Edited by Volpi
grammar

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Volpi do you actually play still


Good timing for that question.

Leaving for Egypt now so I very much doubt I have time for that.

Will anyone volunteer to take over this thread and make it understandable for those who doesn't already know how to do this? Take whatever you like from my content and please do improve on it.

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Will anyone volunteer to take over this thread and make it understandable for those who doesn't already know how to do this? Take whatever you like from my content and please do improve on it.

I'll do my best ;)

And happy holidays! :)

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This guide looks pretty complete to me. I will move it to the main sub forum so it is easier for people to find (also adding to the index). If Volpi or anyone else would like to rewrite this guide like he offered, PM me and I will move it back. 

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I don't know if I am supposed to make a new topic or use this (since it is pinned to a list of guides) but assuming this is can someone direct explain what +3/-8 ratio even means? I didn't see an explanation of it in the breeding guide.

if this is not the place can someone redirect me to where I am supposed to put it.

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I don't know if I am supposed to make a new topic or use this (since it is pinned to a list of guides) but assuming this is can someone direct explain what +3/-8 ratio even means? I didn't see an explanation of it in the breeding guide.

if this is not the place can someone redirect me to where I am supposed to put it.

 

3 iv's get passed directly, the others get averaged from both parents and can go from -8 to +3 from that average iv.

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So assuming the 3 ivs have already been passed if 2 parents have, say, 20 and 22 in HP, the IV in HP will be anywhere from 13-24 for sure (average 21 so 8 less to 3 more)

Thank you very much :)

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So assuming the 3 ivs have already been passed if 2 parents have, say, 20 and 22 in HP, the IV in HP will be anywhere from 13-24 for sure (average 21 so 8 less to 3 more)

Thank you very much :)

 

correct!

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11 hours ago, Eggplant said:

not sure why this was moved to WIP guides, it's pretty finished and ive been using it since it came out

Pretty sure it was part of Raederz cleaning of Guide Tavern where every OP that did not respond got their thread moved to WIP for some reason. The thing a guide like this is timeless and doesn't need updating.

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On 3/11/2017 at 5:43 AM, OrangeManiac said:

Pretty sure it was part of Raederz cleaning of Guide Tavern where every OP that did not respond got their thread moved to WIP for some reason. The thing a guide like this is timeless and doesn't need updating.

There are some outdated things about breeding in this guide, so I'll keep it in WIP for now.

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