Improve the Vermilion Gym Puzzle

[Rache]

Almost every gym in every region has some kind of gimmick or puzzle. Although a few can take a little while to solve the first time, they're still completely fair and often satisfying to complete. Only one is truly frustrating when you lack save states - the Vermilion City Gym.

 

This gym's trash can puzzle is almost entirely RNG - you search for a switch then another, but get the location of the second switch wrong and you have to find the first one again, and it is in another random location. This can be extremely frustrating - get unlucky enough and it can take an hour to find that second switch, which can be made even more painful if the game is lagging causing each trash can search to take several seconds. It slows down the gameplay, and if playing with friends, if one person can't find the second switch the others can be left waiting for them for a long time. Overall, it causes the most player rage and it has nothing to do with the gym leader himself, which needless to say isn't a good thing. This puzzle adds no challenge whatsoever - it's just needlessly tedious, unsatisfying and RNG-heavy. For an MMO, this gym just doesn't fit the pace either.

 

What I'm suggesting isn't to remove the trash can puzzle entirely and destroying the aesthetic of the gym. Rather, what I suggest is fixing the puzzle to be less of a frustratingly annoying RNG fest. There are a couple of ways this can be done. (Yellow = first switch. Red = second switch.)

 

- Only have one switch.

The devs are merciful, but the player is still forced to stoop to digging through the trash. The humiliation won't have to last long though, because once he/she finds the switch, they can face the gym leader before they're laughed at too much.

 

 

- Put the second switch in every surrounding trash can.

The puzzle remains almost identical, but rather than having it reset, eliciting a groan from the now smelly player, whichever trash can they pick after finding the first switch will contain the second switch as long as it is next to the first.

 

- Make the switches stay in the same places

The trash digging bum has found the first switch, but fails to find the second. Logic dictates that unless that first switch is teleporting, it is still in the same spot. They flip the first switch again and try different surrounding trash cans until they find the second.

 

 

-Make it a legitimate puzzle

The setup of this gym would actually be perfect for a proper puzzle. The player walks in and there is a sign right in front of them (because nobody talks to that guy) telling them what to do. Something along the lines of "start from the bottom left trash can". Upon investigating the can, it gives another hint, such as telling the player to look in the trash can 2 to the east or "above the sailor" (placing the NPCs directly above trash cans and stopping them from moving to make a challenge). That trash can will hold directions to the next one. If the player gets one wrong, the puzzle resets. A few trash cans later and they're at the gym leader. After all, you have to be able to follow orders to be in the military - making this type of puzzle perfect for Lt. Surge.

 

 

Although the puzzle only has to be done once per playthrough, there is no denying that it is currently a pain to solve, especially since it isn't really solving anything and instead just wasting time. This isn't Fire Red, and there is no need to keep strictly to canon. This gym was a poor design choice in the original games, and doesn't need to be a poor design choice here too.

 

Discuss.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Pereiraa
If I'm not mistaken this was an error at that time, it was planned to be the Fire Red/Leaf Green way. Anyways, has been fixed a long time ago.

[Dannnno]

Absolutely. I once took 2 hours to get through this gym on an alt run.  Terrible gameplay, and all of your suggestions are good alternatives.

[Inarin]

I hated this Gym in the original games, I hate it now.

Devs like editing original gameplay to suit an MMO, such as breeding and money changes.

Give us a puzzle, not blind luck. Please.

[Darkshade]

- Put the second switch in every surrounding trash can.

The puzzle remains almost identical, but rather than having it reset, eliciting a groan from the now smelly player, whichever trash can they pick after finding the first switch will contain the second switch as long as it is next to the first.

 

 

 

This is actually how the Puzzle functions in Red/Green/Blue/FireRed/LeafGreen.

If ours currently does not work this way, it should likely be adjusted accordingly at some stage.

[Emlee]

This is actually how the Puzzle functions in Red/Green/Blue/FireRed/LeafGreen.

If ours currently does not work this way, it should likely be adjusted accordingly at some stage.

Omg, Barrage and I were doing an alt run and I was hard core complaining about this and saying "There is no way this functions as it does in the handhelds" and he didn't believe me so now I can sass at him for that.

 

Anywho, as someone who has struggled over this majorly I agree that it needs a change, either to the console game's function or something more interesting... either way it just needs to be a bit less RNG. 

[Rache]

This is actually how the Puzzle functions in Red/Green/Blue/FireRed/LeafGreen.

If ours currently does not work this way, it should likely be adjusted accordingly at some stage.

It works the same in Fire Red and Leaf Green as in PokeMMO, but it feels much easier to find the second switch. The RNG seems like it's stacked against the player in PokeMMO. It definitely needs some adjusting though~

 

Edit:

Edited November 23, 2013 by RacheLucario

[Emlee]

Barrage says:

An alternative option to the current mechanics is to make it so that more than just one out of the four switches would be an accepted trashcan. Maybe 2/4 or 3/4 as opposed to just one. That way there is still a chance of failing but you're more likely to finish faster. That way it still contains the essence of the puzzle without being too frustrating. 

 

[spoiler]"essence of the puzzle"[/spoiler]

[twofist]

just look in the corners first if a switch is in the corner theres only 2 places where the other could be ...

and on the sides there are 3 places it can be.

 

i don't think it needs to be changed it's pretty easy, it never took me over 15 min to do it.

[JWingWangWong]

I mean, this isn't a huge deal in PokeMMO, but it definitely is an annoying part in the game where it doesn't take any skill what so ever. I still don't get why an electric gym wants you do dig through their garbage bins to find switches I mean is this HoboMMO or PokeMMO. This would be a perfect time to use those mapping tools and change the puzzle mechanics all together even something like building a circuit to make the gate open would be neat.

[ThinkNice]

I remember I was stuck there for like 50 turns. I think Barrage was there too when I was raging on and on

Barrage says:
An alternative option to the current mechanics is to make it so that more than just one out of the four switches would be an accepted trashcan. Maybe 2/4 or 3/4 as opposed to just one. That way there is still a chance of failing but you're more likely to finish faster. That way it still contains the essence of the puzzle without being too frustrating. 
 
[spoiler]"essence of the puzzle"[/spoiler]

[Dannnno]

Just went through on an alt run

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhQ9ky2-l4&feature=youtu.be

 

I started about 5 minutes in, and this wasn't even an exceptionally bad time.  I've had much worse (see above)

[shardj]

This has never taken me more than a few minutes? Think you may have exaggerated there

 

it can take an hour to find that second switch

 

It's always right next to the first one, I've found normally below but that might just be me, just check the top 2 corners first

[Rache]

This has never taken me more than a few minutes? Think you may have exaggerated there

 

 

It's always right next to the first one, I've found normally below but that might just be me, just check the top 2 corners first

Yes, it is next to the first one. However, if it isn't in the corners you have a 1/4 chance of guessing correctly. If you're unlucky it can quite literally take that long. See below - it's no exaggeration.

 

Absolutely. I once took 2 hours to get through this gym on an alt run.  Terrible gameplay, and all of your suggestions are good alternatives.

[Dannnno]

This has never taken me more than a few minutes? Think you may have exaggerated there

 

 

It's always right next to the first one, I've found normally below but that might just be me, just check the top 2 corners first

 

I'm well aware of how it is always next to the first one, but that doesn't mean you'll always guess right. It is completely RNG based and I have once, no exaggeration, taken 2 hours to complete it.

 

Even if it only takes 5-10 minutes for most people, it is still terrible gameplay and should be changed.

[TheRealPhatiman]

I'm well aware of how it is always next to the first one, but that doesn't mean you'll always guess right. It is completely RNG based and I have once, no exaggeration, taken 2 hours to complete it.

 

Even if it only takes 5-10 minutes for most people, it is still terrible gameplay and should be changed

Never taken me more than 5 mins lel,but i do agree its terriblie gameplay and should be changed,i like the clue based suggestion

+1

[Kite]

actually it is always next to the switch from what i seen in red/blue/yellow/fire red/PokeMMO the cans have never been above or below the game and if you just checked a can  then you go to the next and it says there is a switch its gonna be the one after that can never before it (going from where you checked the previous) so cause of this i dont think it needs to be changed. i have put in lots of hours into red/yellow/fire red and having many saved games and like i said never has been above or below. so i am neutral on this.

 

info from MY play throughs of what i experienced 

[Dannnno]

actually it is always next to the switch from what i seen in red/blue/yellow/fire red/PokeMMO the cans have never been above or below the game and if you just checked a can  then you go to the next and it says there is a switch its gonna be the one after that can never before it (going from where you checked the previous) so cause of this i dont think it needs to be changed. i have put in lots of hours into red/yellow/fire red and having many saved games and like i said never has been above or below. so i am neutral on this.

 

info from MY play throughs of what i experienced 

 

I've found it in every possible adjacent can before