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Optimal PvE Pickup Teddiursa, Munchlax, Meowth, and Pachirisu [with leveling strategies]


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Optimal PvE Meowth Summary

 

Spoiler

Pokémon: Meowth

Nature: Brave

**Second best is lonely and third best is naughty**

Level: 100

Ability: Pickup

Hidden Ability: Unnerve

Items: Silk Scarf

IVs: Ideally 6x31. For more practical cost-saving purposes, 2x31 with Attack and Special Attack

EVs: 6 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Special Attack

Moves: Pay Day, Covet/Thief, Hyper Voice, Fake Out

**I recommend covet over thief unless you're attacking ghost Pokemon**

Egg Moves: Assist, Flail, Odor Sleuth, Punishment

**Optional, but I recommend them for versatility**

**If you pass egg moves to the final breed, they are re-learnable. This means you will have expanded the maximum moveset of your final breed**

HM Moves: Cut, Flash

 

Nature explanation

Spoiler
  • Meowth is fast so it was better to have a speed reduction rather than Defense or Special Defense due to any resulting damage. Special Attack is needed for those that would like to run Hyper Voice and/or Icy Wind. Even if you do not intend to use Hyper Voice and/or icy wind, it is best to ensure that the Meowth you make can handle more than just pay daying. A good example is if you pay day in pattern bush and come across a heracross horde. you can use Hyper Voice to faint the horde for a chance at revival herbs.
  • Even with speed reduction, Meowth outspeeds the standard hordes used for EV training
     
  • The second best nature is lonely. It can still be used as a counter to the download ability. Please reference this article to read info about it https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Download_(Ability)
  • The third best nature is naughty.

     
  • All 3 natures I have discussed raise attack. You do not want a nature that lowers special attack like adamant. If you are going through of effort of breeding a meowth or spending pokeyen on a meowth, you should ensure it has the appropriate nature that will allow you to simultaneously take out some hordes using Hyper Voice.

 

Moveset explanation

Spoiler
  • Pay Day is meant for accumulating additional pokeyen while also utilizing pickup.
  • Thief/Covet is mean to steal an item being held by another Pokémon. Covet is best unless you need to use thief against ghost pokemon. With a Covet Meowth and Thief Banette, you can use them in double battles in undella when using lures.
  • Hyper Voice is meant to take hordes. Meowth can defeat Rapidash, Tentacruel, marill, pelipper, Rhydon, and Golduck hordes. It is important to note that Meowth is not the perfect solution and is NOT as good as Teddiursa at horde clearing. An example calc is shown below
    • 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0+ SpD Rapidash: 187-222 (141.6 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 42 0 HP / 0+ SpD Rhydon: 161-190 (105.2 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 40 0 HP / 0+ SpD Pelipper: 243-286 (220.9 - 260%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 62 0 HP / 0+ SpD Poliwhirl: 207-244 (121 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 55 0 HP / 0+ SpD Mantine: 100-118 (57.1 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 55 0 HP / 0+ SpD Golduck: 160-190 (94.1 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    • 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 48 0 HP / 0+ SpD Tentacruel: 130-154 (87.2 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
    • It's important to note that the calcs above include a special defense nature at max wild horde level with maxed special defense, defense, and HP IVs. With the inclusion of Mt. Silver in the game, it has become common for people to bring a pickup discharge pokemon like pachirisu along since it doesn't need to be level 100 for discharge to be super effective. While this is the section for Meowth, I highly recommend having a pickup teddiursa to tackle majority of the hordes and a rampardos that was created by @c4v to focus on Mt. Silver hordes.

 

  •  

  • Fake out is used for pokemon that take two hits such as pinsir/scyther. You will fake out first then pay day. 
  • Meowth is unable to learn sweet scent
  • Pay Day is the biggest difference between Meowth and Teddiursa. Munchlax can also learn pay day so be sure to closely examine the posts for Meowth and Munchlax to determine which one you prefer to use for Pay Day

 

IVs explanation

Spoiler
  • I run 6x31 because that is my preference. Meowth utilizes every IV stat such as physical attack for Pay Day, special attack for Hyper Voice, speed for obvious reasons (although it can have speed as 0 and still outspeed everything it needs to), and HP, Defense, and Special Defense for obvious defensive reasons. With that being said, it is ideal for you to deal the most damage possible and receive the least damage possible. It is also ideal to outspeed all intended Pokemon.

 

  • For practical purposes to save you pokeyen, you can do 2x31 in Attack and Special Attack. You can also increase the Speed IV if you are worried about the negative defense nature. While I talked about why 6x31 is ideal because you ideally want maximize your damage and minimize damage received, it is more practical from a pokeyen-saving viewpoint to breed a 2x31 Meowth in Attack and Special Attack

 

  • For emphasis, the Speed IV doesn't really matter because Meowth is fine even with a 0 IV for Speed

 

EVs explanation

Spoiler
  • The last 6 EVs go into HP rather than speed because there are some pokemon that you must pay day twice to take out and the extra HP helps. Meowth is fast enough even with a speed reduction nature to outspeed all pokemon it is intended to battle
  • The Seaking/golduck hordes in Mt. Silver is an excellent place to EV train Meowth as you get both special attack and attack EVs. It is also a high exp horde location for faster leveling

 

Leveling Strategy

Spoiler

Meowth WITH Choice Specs vs. 2x31 special defense boosted nature Rapidash

 

Spoiler

Lvl 100 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0+ SpD Rapidash: 187-222 (141.6 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Lvl 84 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0+ SpD Rapidash: 132-156 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Lvl 83 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0+ SpD Rapidash: 130-154 (98.4 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Lvl 77 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0+ SpD Rapidash: 111-132 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

 

Meowth WITHOUT Choice Specs (everstone) vs. 2x31 special defense boosted nature Rapidash

 

Spoiler

Lvl 100 252 SpA Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0+ SpD Rapidash: 126-148 (95.4 - 112.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Lvl 95 252 SpA Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0+ SpD Rapidash: 114-135 (86.3 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

 

Meowth WITH Choice Specs vs. 2x31 Non-special defense boosted nature

 

Spoiler

Lvl 100 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0 SpD Rapidash: 205-243 (155.3 - 184%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Lvl 80 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0 SpD Rapidash: 135-159 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Lvl 79 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0 SpD Rapidash: 129-153 (97.7 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Lvl 73 252 SpA Choice Specs Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0 SpD Rapidash: 112-133 (84.8 - 100.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

 

Meowth WITHOUT Choice Specs (everstone) vs. 2x31 Non-special defense boosted nature

 

Spoiler

Lvl 100 252 SpA Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0 SpD Rapidash: 138-163 (104.5 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Lvl 98 252 SpA Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0 SpD Rapidash: 132-156 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Lvl 97 252 SpA Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0 SpD Rapidash: 127-150 (96.2 - 113.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Lvl 90 252 SpA Meowth Hyper Voice vs. Lvl 47 0 HP / 0 SpD Rapidash: 112-133 (84.8 - 100.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

The above calculations were determined by calculating by taking into account that AoE moves function at 75% strength when fighting hordes. Since Hyper Voice has a strength value of 67.5, I entered a strength value of 67 when making calculations to be safe. As you can also see in the calculations, I used Rapidashes at 2x31 IVs to factor in that variable. Using the above calculations, you can plan out your leveling strategies.

 

Pokémon commonly attacked with thief

Spoiler
  • Luvdisc/shellder at undella Bay/Town (Super Rod)
  • Staryu at Route 13 in Unova
  • Clamperl at route 4 in Unova (Two shot at levels 54 and 55)
  • Luvdisc/corsola at ever grande (lower section) (super rod) (Two shot for Corsola)
  • Meowth
  • Geodude/graveler
  • Paras/parasect
  • Absol

 

Pokémon commonly attacked with payday

Spoiler
  • Remoraid at undella Bay/Town (Can one shot)
  • Smeargle at artisan cave (Can one shot)
  • Scyther/Pinsir at route 229 (Needs two shot)

    252+ Atk Silk Scarf Meowth Pay Day vs. Lvl 52 0 HP / 0+ Def Pinsir: 78-93 (53.7 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 

    252+ Atk Silk Scarf Meowth Pay Day vs. Lvl 52 0 HP / 0+ Def Scyther: 94-112 (62.6 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    *Pay Day and Fake out both have the same damage output. Silk scarf boosts normal type moves on top of STAB damage. I used a Defense boosted nature for Pinsir and Scyther calculations for the worst case scenario.*

     Pawniard at Route 9 in regular or dark grass (Can one shot)

  • Wailmer at ever grande (lower section) (super rod) (added since it overlaps with luvdisc and corsola)
  • Heracross in pattern bush (revival herbs) (clear hordes with HV)
  • Berry forest

 

Notes

Spoiler
  • Banette knows Frisk

 

Credits

Spoiler
  •  

 

 

Edited by DragoTamer
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Optimal PvE Munchlax Summary

Spoiler

Pokémon: Munchlax

Nature: Adamant

**Certain hordes/pokes require Jolly nature. Example: battling golduck hordes at Mt. Silver**

Level: 100

Ability: Pickup

Items: Choice Scarf or Choice Band

IVs: Ideally 5x31. For more practical cost-saving purposes, 2x31 with Attack and Speed

EVs: 6 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed

Moves: Pay Day, Covet, Earthquake, Rock Slide

Egg Move: Pursuit

**Optional, but I recommend it for versatility**

**If you pass egg moves to the final breed, they are re-learnable. This means you will have expanded the maximum moveset of your final breed**

HM Moves: Rock Climb, Rock Smash, Strength, Surf

 

Leveling information

Spoiler
  • At level 100, Munchlax's speed will be 109. 
  • At level 76 with EV training and a choice scarf, Munchlax will outspeed the fastest Tentacruel hordes and OHKO them
  • At level 83 with EV training and a choice scarf, Munchlax will outspeed the fastest Rapidash hordes and OHKO them
  • You can either feed berries or trade Munchlax back and forth with a friend to keep happiness low. Munchlax is a happiness breed so as long as you keep happiness below 87%, it will not evolve. Happiness increases with every level. 

 

Faster and will One Shot with Pay Day

Spoiler
  • Berry Forest
  • Finneon at route 17 (Super Rod)
  • Feebas at route 119 (Super Rod) (Special)
  • Bagon at meteor falls
  • Mareep at altering cave
  • Smeargle at artisan cave
  • Pawniard at Route 9 (regular or dark grass)
  • Barboach/Whiscash at meteor falls (super rod)
  • Dratini/dragonair/basculin at dragonspiral (super rod)
    • Will OS with paday for dratini/dragonair
    • Needs scarf for Basculin will OS with covet. Basculin can hold an item
  • Corsola/Luvdisc/Wailmer at Ever Grande City (lower section) (super rod)
  • Needs Choice Band for Corsola
  • PayDay Wailmer

 

Faster and will OS with Covet

Spoiler
  • Horsea
  • Lunatone/Solrock at Meteor Falls
  • Clamperl at route 4 in Unova or underwater in Hoenn
  • Corsola/Luvdisc/Wailmer at Ever Grande City (lower section) (super rod)
    • Needs Choice Band for Corsola
  • PayDay Wailmer
  • Beldum at meteor falls.
    • Will OS a 2x31 beldum that is not defense boosted at level 45 100% of the time
    • Will OS a 2x31 defense boosted beldum at level 45 at least 92.3% of the time
    • Will OS a 2x31 defense boosted beldum at level 44 at least 96% of the time
    • Will OS a 2x31 defense boosted beldum at level 43 at least 100% of the time

 

Needs Scarf and will OS with Pay Day

Spoiler
  • Wingull/Staryu at Route 13
    • Needs scarf for Staryu

 

Notes

Spoiler
  • I would primarily use Teddiursa for Hordes and Banette for thieving. As for payday and covet usage, you can choose between Munchlax and Meowth depending on what location/Pokémon you want to focus on
  • Pay Day is weaker than Covet
  • I understand that Munchlax is slightly harder to breed due to it needing to be snorlax to breed. The benefit is that it evolves via happiness so when you’re leveling after being done with breeds, you simply need to feed Munchlax berries to keep it’s happiness low rather than being careful about pressing ‘B’ to cancel the evolution. You can also utilize exp candies, rare candies, and everstone leveling. 
  • Use scarf when Munchlax can’t outspeed a Pokémon
  • Munchlax can outspeed Golduck and seaking hordes at Mt. Silver, but cannot OHKO Golduck hordes 100% of the time. Due to this, I recommend a pickup Pachirisu for seaking/golduck hordes to reliably handle them together

 

Credits

 

 

 

Optimal Pachirisu

 

I will do a proper writeup soon. For now, this is a test wall with some info to guide you on builds

Spoiler

Level: 100

Nature: Modest

IVs: 20+ in speed if speed boosted nature. 31 IV speed if it's NOT a speed boosted nature

EVs: 252 in special attack. 0 in speed if the nature is speed boosted with at least 20 IV speed. 40 speed EVs if it's a speed neutral nature with 31 IV speed. 148 speed EVs if it's a speed minus nature with a 31 IV speed.

Egg Moves: Not necessary, but if you want (Flatter, bestow, flail, follow me)

Moves: Discharge, Swift, Shock Wave [Swift can clear other hordes. Shock wave can be used to attack pokemon in a horde that might otherwise avoid certain moves due to minimize or other reasons.

Item: Choice specs

 

 

At level 100, even if Pachirisu has a minus special attack nature and a 0 IV special attack, it will OHKO all the necessary water hordes such as poliwhirl, seaking, golduck, and dodrio at Mt. Silver as well as Tentacruel and Mantine in the battle frontier and undella respectively.

 

 

Nature explanation

While it might be nice to have a timid nature with 20+ speed for your IV and no speed EVs, there's nowhere else that useful to allocate EVs to after maxing special attack. Because of that, it's better to go with a speed neutral nature with a 31 IV speed and 40 speed EVs if you're being optimal. For every IV reduction, you need 4 more EVs added to speed. a 30 speed IV would need 44 speed EVs all the way down to a 0 speed IV with 164 speed EVs. The best nature from here is to go with Modest to maximize damage since more damage doesn't hurt. Any special attack IV above 0 is a bonus.

Speed IV Requirements

Speed minus nature: 5 speed IV minimum with 252 speed EVs. 31 IV speed maximum with 40 speed EVs

Speed neutral nature: 0 speed IV minimum with 163 Speed EVs. 31 IV speed maximum with 40 speed EVs
Speed boosted nature: 0 speed IV minimum with 80 speed EVs. 20 speed IV with 0 speed EVs. 31 speed IV with 0 speed EVs

 

All of the above speed IV + EV combos with each nature type ends up being a speed stat of 236. You'll notice that, generally, as IVs went down, speed EVs went up. For every 1 point in IV reduction, you will need 4 speed EVs to compensate to maintain a speed stat of 236 until you hit the bottomline of a speed minus nature with 5 speed IVs and you max out at 252 speed EVs


If it is a speed boosted nature, it doesn't need speed EVs since it gets a stat of 248 without speed EVs. if it's a neutral speed nature.

 

 

 

EV Hordes to EV train your other pokemon

Hp: marill at fallarbor
Attack: Nidorino kanto route 15
Defense: slowbro at cape brink in the grass
Special attack: golduck at sinnoh resort
Special defense: mantine/tentacruel at undella/Battle Frontier
Speed: poliwhirl at Mt. Silver

 

 

 

 

Upon completion, you can use your picjup pachirisu to train your pickup meowth at Mt. Silver with the seaking/golduck hordes for attack and special attack EVs and high exp. This will give you the widest variety in pickup mons. Pickup teddiursa can OHKO the poliwhirl hordes.

 

 

This is a good pickup ability pokemon for beginners since pachirisu doesn't evolve. I included a list of hordes you can battle with it for EV training above

 

 

 

Credits

Thanks to @Minks for providing me information about Swift and the usage of shock wave

Thanks to @ darthdmitry for specifying that this would be good for beginners

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other Optimal PvE Pokemon Guides

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by DragoTamer
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I will officially be adding in builds for Meowth and Munchlax in place of my reserved comments. I will then change the title to something pertaining to a pickup pokemon guide. I will explain the points where each excel, advantages, disadvantages, etc. When I post the Meowth and Munchlax breeds, I will continue to edit them over a week's time for further explanations and calcs. 

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  • DragoTamer changed the title to Optimal PvE Pickup Teddiursa, Munchlax, and Meowth

The builds are updated. I will take another look at Meowth's build later, but after making these 3, I highly recommend a Teddiursa + Munchlax. Teddiursa for hordes and Munchlax for payday/covet. Covet works like thief, but Munchlax will get the STAB boost and extra power because of its higher base attack stat. Munchlax's build also includes a larger pool of people you can shunt with while paydaying/coveting. My opinion is that Munchlax is better than Meowth. Munchlax, along with its higher base attack stat, can clear a decent amount of hordes with EQ + Rock slide. 

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Great guide! I think there is a mistake in your mantine damage calculations. I caught these 4 that all survived a hyper voice from a Lv. 100 teddiursa with maxed out special attack and choice specs. I going to use a different pokemon to handle mantine hordes. I can only 1 hit KO about 2/3 of the hordes. I don't think any other pokemon with pickup can hit any harder. 

Screen Shot 2022-06-22 at 9.30.43 PM.png

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Screen Shot 2022-06-22 at 9.29.57 PM.png

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On 6/22/2022 at 10:39 PM, johnestan said:

Great guide! I think there is a mistake in your mantine damage calculations. I caught these 4 that all survived a hyper voice from a Lv. 100 teddiursa with maxed out special attack and choice specs. I going to use a different pokemon to handle mantine hordes. I can only 1 hit KO about 2/3 of the hordes. I don't think any other pokemon with pickup can hit any harder. 

Screen Shot 2022-06-22 at 9.30.43 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-06-22 at 9.30.18 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-06-22 at 9.29.57 PM.png

The best choice for Mantine hordes was Teddiursa with Rock Slide. But since the last updates i believe that they nerfed the Wide Lens because now sometimes the attack fails (it didn't before). But even now the missing chance isn't that high so i would reccomend to use it with Earthquake+Rock Slide (this one for Mantine)+Hyper Voice (the last one for every other flying poke), and Wide Lens/Choice Band/Choice Specs as the held item (depends on the attack you will use).

Edited by RealdoDM
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5 hours ago, RealdoDM said:

The best choice for Mantine hordes was Teddiursa with Rock Slide. But since the last updates i believe that they nerfed the Wide Lens because now sometimes the attack fails (it didn't before). But even now the missing chance isn't that high so i would reccomend to use it with Earthquake+Rock Slide (this one for Mantine)+Hyper Voice (the last one for every other flying poke), and Wide Lens/Choice Band/Choice Specs as the held item (depends on the attack you will use).

Thank you for this insight! I'll rerun the calcs for Mantine. Teddiursa was meant to thin out Mantine for any good captures, but it looks like that advantage has a wider margin of error than I thought. It seems that Discharge or another option is a better move. Just in case you were looking for an alternate horde for Special Defense EVs, I recommend Tentacruel at the Hoenn Battle Frontier! Thanks again for providing that data!

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  • 2 weeks later...
9 hours ago, Uriincrdbl said:

Another pokemon that should be considered is Linoone, which I use when training other pokemon. It also has a wide moveset such as Hyper Voice, Dig, Thief and several HM!

Linoone is indeed a good pickup pokemon! Teddiura outclasses Linoone though due to a higher base attack stat. It's indeed a viable one though so thank you for your insight! 

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  • 2 weeks later...

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