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Question for the community, what amount of IV makes a pokemon a comp?


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Hello i have been playing the game for many years under different names and i keep going back to the same question, what makes a pokemon competitive? 

 

So in pokemmo there are tiers OU,UU,NU,DOUBLES and Randoms if you count that and different pokemon are in each tier just like any other game and further more each pokemon has its own base stats.

 

So here is where is gets intresting for me base stats doesnt equal the pokemon being in a higher tier its also based on moveset,abilities and other factors. Note i realise some people can have different builds but im going off mainstream.

 

If we take one of the most popular pokemon in OU in garchomp its base stats are a total of 600 and the lowest being 80 special attack and second lowest 85 special defence.

 

If we take alakazam for example from UU which is only one tier below its base stats are 500 and has really low Hp,Attack and Defence (55,50 and 45) so even though there is only 100 difference between them Zam has 3 really low stats but garchomps low stats are not really low, there are many examples of this where certain pokemon have into the 500+ stat range and have two huge  numbers and the rest are low.

 

So its an easy answer to just say make all your comps 6x31 but i have to ask is it worth it when the stat is so low is having 31 in the three low stats of Zam going to save u getting one shot? Is it worth more then 3x31? 

 

Maybe zam is bad example since its always been know as a glass cannon, lets introduce another popular choice Gengar its base stats is 500 again but only has high spatt and speed and mediocre spdef so again is it worth more then a 3x31 in speed spatt and spdef?

 

And if we take a low stat pokemon Butterfree 395 base stats mediocre across the board maybe its spatt verges on high so is having a 6x31 in any situation against its  low stat pers going to save u getting one shot ? Thats doubtful

 

 And my last example alot of players favourite Scizor 4x weak to fire and players build offensive so no EV in the defences so 100 base def and 80 special defence  is having 31 in these really going to help u live?

 

So my ultimate question and which point is it making a 31 IV foolish since it wont make a difference, alot of comps seem to be 5x31 since it seems to come down to money and time not going for 6x31 but if money or time is the case why not stay at 4x31 or 3x31 on most pokemon since the 31 on the low stats isnt going to help you anyways.

 

I look forward to hearing opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I dont PVP much, yet alone seriously for that matter, but I know that for competitive Pokemon people will want 31 ideally. But would settle for a 30 or 29, maybe 28

 

If what I was told is correct:

 

Typhlosion A has 31 Sp. Atk IV

Typhlosion B has 28 Sp. Atk IV

 

Assuming EV spread and Nature is the same on both, the Lv.50 stat would only be a couple less on B. 31 IV adds 31 onto the stat at Lv.100, and 15 at Lv.50.

 

If someone who actually plays PVP sees this and I'm wrong, please let me know. 

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I think you don't need a 5x31 pokemon or a 6x31. But the closer to 31iv the better. So if you can't breed your mons 5x31 you can make some more cheapier and use it normaly. And in the case of 6x31, i don't recomend it when the pokemon its not a mixed attacker, like salamence, metagross, lucario. 

Take a look in a example for Ivs mattering or not:

 

252+ Atk Swampert Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 156-188 (81.2 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (31 IV Def and HP Volca)

252+ Atk Swampert Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 172-204 (89.5 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (15 Def IV Volca)

In one case as you see, volca can take a rock slide from a swampert( its not a stab move ik, but is only for a example)

In the other case it have a 37.5% chance to get knocked out by a rock slide due to not have 31 iv on DEF.

 

A pokemon that can be used and its not even 3x31:

image.png.36d86dd3a51c62f77a3e85351a427b18.png

Try always put the ivs the closest to 31 if you want a fast breed or a cheapier breed. And put the 31 in the main ivs.

AND, as i said, when you have the chance, make your pokemons 5x31 if you can. They'll do the best results.

 

Edited by LipeHaru
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In my opinion, a competitive one is in terms of ivs when he is able to perform in a duel, that is, in the case of single-type offensives, 3x31 2x27 would be fine, the 31st in the stats where you distribute EVs (Eg Dragonite 31 /31/27/??/27/31 or Volcarona 31/??/27/31/27/31), but for pokes that are mixed attackers it would be better 3x31 3x27 minimum, logically 31 where you decide to put EVs, which generally results in both attacks and speed.
On defensive pokes without attack like chansey, which uses Seismic toss or psywave, 3x31 would be enough (you could also give them speed if you want it to outrun something specific), on defensive pokes that use some offensive move that is based on their stats and doesn't deal damage fixed, like Hippowdon eq, you could invest in 3x31 2x27 too (x27 attack and speed, to at least outperform mons like conkeldurr).

Clearly, this is the bare minimum that I recommend to raise pokes considered competitive, you can put more ivs in it, but with this any mon should work for you, I hope it has helped you. ?

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"Sweepers with low defenses don't need high defensive IVs" is one of the most common misconceptions in PokeMMO and it's just straight up wrong. Every Pokemon in the game besides Shedinja benefits from good defensive bulk. Even for glass cannons, there are always some attack you can switch in for and the defensive IV defines whether you live or die from that switch in. The glass cannon surviving an attack can be the difference between a sweep or just straight up dying.

 

It is understandable not everyone has the necessary resources to make everything perfect and that's fine. And it's okay to make small sacrifices somewhere if it saves a lot in your budget. But every Pokemon will always benefit from maximized IVs at everything it uses and going for maximum IVs should always be the goal (before your in-game wallet tells you otherwise).

 

 

 

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I want to add that actually frail sweepers suffer even more from a low IV in a stat than other pokemon. This is because the change in % is bigger if the iv is lower in defense in something like Sharpedo than Tyranitar.

This can be generalized for every other stat, just tried to stay on the same example.

 

Edit: you can also save money on a "perfect" comp by going 30 iv on the stats you are not putting evs on. This way you get the same stats with cheaper breeders

Edited by Bertolfoso
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37 minutes ago, Bertolfoso said:

you can also save money on a "perfect" comp by going 30 iv on the stats you are not putting evs on. This way you get the same stats with cheaper breeders

Just putting more emphasis on this. 30 IV on uninvested stats makes a "perfect" comp. The only downside is if you want to change the EV spreading, you won't be able to reach the max with 30 IV if you decide to invest EVs in it. You only really want 5x31 on pokemons where you invest in multiple stats for actual good reasons (stuff you calced before breeding that achieve something in particular). I see many players starting competitive sink their money on misconceptions, or on the contrary, lose some games because of misplaced "budget breeding". 

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Depend of pokémon, some need of 5x31, others are fine with 4x31, and a small amount onnly need 2 or 3 x31.

Example:
Volcarona,scizor and garchomp, are fine 5x31.
Infernape are fine 4x31, helps to get a odd number of HP, that reduces the % damage taken by hazards.
Chanseys, a 3x31 is enough, because chansey don't use Atk, Sp. Atk and Speed, you only want speed to pass other chanseys, but is useless on overall.
Darmanitan, is most paper mon of Over Used. 31 IV on Def and Sp. Def is useless, even with this, darmanitan resists to nothing. You might want a 2x31, or 3x31, if want HP 31.

Strategy you will use also counts, too. Infernape are 4x31, assuming a mixed set. Physical or Special sets is -1 IV 31 that you will need to breed

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An easy way to calculate the minimal differences in damage given/damage taken is to use this calculator. Speed is usually the most important IV to have at 31 incase you end up fighting an identical pokemon; which happens quite often in OU. An example would be Chomp vs Chomp (Dclaw or Draco) or Gengar vs Gengar (Sball or Psychic).

 

 

 

link: https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/

Edited by Reckless
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It honestly depends on stats and what you want it to do. Pvp happens at level 50 which means with no nature or ev investment a 30 and 31 are the same stat. That obviously changes with one or the other. I usually breed for 2x31s and 3x30s, the 31s going to what ever stats I find most important. But going as low as 27 or 28 on a iv is only a 2-3 stat difference and can be barely noticed on things like fast attackers that can't take many hits anyway. Sweepers are fine with 28/31/28/x/28/31 ( apply the same to special attack ). A pokemon that wants to be defensive is fine with 31/x/31/x/28/x ( apply for special or if you want speed and attack ). I've seen some of the best players in the game use some pretty terrible iv pokemon before.

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On 5/7/2022 at 8:23 AM, caioxlive13 said:


Infernape are fine 4x31, helps to get a odd number of HP, that reduces the % damage taken by hazards.
 

This comment doesn't make much sense, it's always better to give as much bulk as possible even if you're a frail sweeper, unless you want to breed I don't know, an Elekid life orb for LC or something at those levels.

 

On 7/5/2022 at 8:23, caioxlive13 said:

Darmanitan, is most paper mon of Over Used. 31 IV on Def and Sp. Def is useless, even with this, darmanitan resists to nothing. You might want a 2x31, or 3x31, if want HP 31.

This is ridiculous, As said before, even on frail sweepers bulk is important, let's say a situation where a conkeldurr leftovers weakens a pokemon on your team, and your last pokemon is a Darmanitan, there are rocks on your field, then look at this calculation:

 

Darmanitan x25 IVs in HP and Defense

252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan: 123-145 (69.4 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

Darmanitan x31 IVs in HP and Defense

252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan: 63-75 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

As you can see, even a x31 (x30 maybe if you don't want to invest EV here) or x25 on a Pokémon with stats of 55 can define a duel under certain circumstances.

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Odd numbers in HP are "magic numbers" depending on the circumstances such as life orb recoil, stealth rock damage and leftovers, helps get less residual damage/more healing  basically. Even numbers are great for bellydrum mons like Linoone and Poliwrath with a sitrus berry since you need 50%HP for the berry to work.

 

Just to reiterate, if you can't breed a perfect 5*31 natured mon, the next best thing is going for 31s in the stats you'll invest in EVs. Just know that changing up EVs into any 30IV stat will reward 1 less point so the EV changing flexibility will be lost. There are many mons that don't need perfect breeds however but that depends on what mon and the playstyle you're looking for.

 

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Im just gonna say: take the main parameters to 31 depending on which rol the pokemon will play. Example: a mixed garchomp i would make it 31 on spd, atk and sp. atk, and 28+ on the rest. Why? Easy, you will not wall an attack with that garchomp, so why 31 on defs? Just 28 or plus cause in lvl 50, it will only have 1 point less on stats, and believe me, that wouldn't make a diference in any pvp.

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14 hours ago, Rychell said:

Im just gonna say: take the main parameters to 31 depending on which rol the pokemon will play. Example: a mixed garchomp i would make it 31 on spd, atk and sp. atk, and 28+ on the rest. Why? Easy, you will not wall an attack with that garchomp, so why 31 on defs? Just 28 or plus cause in lvl 50, it will only have 1 point less on stats, and believe me, that wouldn't make a diference in any pvp.

28 to 30, can be the difference of winning or losing a match, this is not the right approach, yes long term it isn't that relevant, but it's something to always consider.


If you're a begginer and just starting out, go with semi comps, they are good enough for you to learn and play with to a good degree of comp, plus they're dirty cheap, so you get to experience competitive and build teams faster.

If you're always someone well established or just want to chase perfect stats, generally you'll want 31 on IVs you're investing onto, with some odd balls like Mienshao maybe prefering 29 IV HP over 31 due to LO recoil etc. The one stat I will always consider a must on every mon is speed, you legit want max speed always, doens't matter if it's a 30 base speed wall, 31 speed is the way to go. Only exception to this are gyro ball spammers or trick room users obviously.

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On 5/9/2022 at 6:05 AM, DiosSlurpuff said:

This comment doesn't make much sense, it's always better to give as much bulk as possible even if you're a frail sweeper, unless you want to breed I don't know, an Elekid life orb for LC or something at those levels.

 

This is ridiculous, As said before, even on frail sweepers bulk is important, let's say a situation where a conkeldurr leftovers weakens a pokemon on your team, and your last pokemon is a Darmanitan, there are rocks on your field, then look at this calculation:

 

Darmanitan x25 IVs in HP and Defense

252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan: 123-145 (69.4 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

Darmanitan x31 IVs in HP and Defense

252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan: 63-75 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

As you can see, even a x31 (x30 maybe if you don't want to invest EV here) or x25 on a Pokémon with stats of 55 can define a duel under certain circumstances.

While I also aim for as high IV as I can afford, your conk example is flawed. Why are you comparing Mach punch and drain punch of you are trying to highlight the difference IVs make.

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12 hours ago, MMOcritic said:

you are trying to highlight the difference IVs make.

x31:

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan: 121-143 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

In this case 6 damage roll can ohko Darmanitan  (135, 137, 138, 140, 141, 143)

 

x25:

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan: 126-149 (71.1 - 84.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

In this case 11 of the 16 Damage roll are the ones that can cause OHKO (134, 135, 137, 138, 140, 141, 143, 144, 146, 147, 149)

Almost twice as much as in the previous calculation (!!!)

 

I think that while the vs conkeldurr calculation was totally wrong, the point of it was correct.

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