[UU Discussion] Dugtrio

[DiosSlurpuff]

On 2/15/2022 at 12:34 PM, caioxlive13 said:

this isn't usage to a mon being viable on tier.

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kabutops: 138-164 (102.2 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 134-158 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 134-158 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Aerial Ace vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 140-168 (84.8 - 101.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Dugtrio Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 140-168 (102.9 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 188-224 (124.5 - 148.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 256-304 (176.5 - 209.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 216-254 (154.2 - 181.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 212-252 (114.5 - 136.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 272-320 (170 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

 

Dugtrio is used taking care of the sash to be able to enter against this type of pokes and not leave them a chance, using movements like Voltswitch, uturn or tp, it is completely useful in OU

[Gunthug]

two things that I think should be addressed:

 

1. it absolutely matters what kind of environment dugtrio is in, in a given tier, when determining if it's banworthy. As we've discussed on this site for YEARS, just because something is uncompetitive does not mean it is banworthy. Magnet pull is technically uncompetitive - it restricts user autonomy, takes away your ability to switch simply because you have a steel mon on your team. However, given that steel mons are only a small part of the meta, and that you can actually hold an item that negates magnet pull, it's not SO uncompetitive that it's banworthy.

 

Same goes for dugtrio depending on its tier. It is uncompetitive in every tier, yes. But is it so uncompetitive that it becomes banworthy? That's a decision that needs to be made in each individual tier. Personally, i almost always think that answer is yes, but I still see the need to have that discussion - hence why this is a UU dugtrio thread and there may be an OU dugtrio thread down the road, if necessary. 

 

2. usage DOES NOT EQUAL viability, and what people need to realize is that there's a certain stigma associated with using certain strategies deemed "uncompetitive." Therefore, you'll often see somewhat low usage of extremely effective and uncompetitive strategies just because people don't like to play that way, or don't want to be considered "cheap" for using that strat. Best example I can think of is the old full baton pass team. It was rare to see a full BP team back in the old OU - but it was EXTREMELY overpowered and uncompetitive. Why didn't you see it in 60% of matches, then? Because the community kind of recognized that it was uncompetitive, and that drove down usage. I absolutely think that affects dugtrio's usage, and hence usage should not be counted for much in this discussion (or any discussion about uncompetitive mons, IMO)

[DoubleJ]

Praise the rich boy, gthug!

[fredrichnietze]

we did this already it was easy

 

option A remove tapping ability's from game

option B keep the abilitys ban them all to uber

option C keep them in various tiers and balance on a individual basis.

 

its arguably support uber you cant play around revenge kills you cant just not kill anything ever but its usually just poking holes so something else can sweep not quite the offensive uber. honestly its less about balance and more about what you want the competitive scene to be so just take vote. require a certain amount of competitive play to show you are not a alt/fake account/bot/whatever and actually play the game unlike me kek. its not impossible to grind enoguh to qualify on more then one account and use vpns to try to hide ip and shit but its a whole lot of work to get a few extra votes at most the few crazy jobless fanatics willing to do so will probably cancel out and then you vote option a b or c. 

 

we did option A back in the day i think i would vote that but i dont even remember my password kek good luck 

[caioxlive13]

On 2/23/2022 at 11:47 AM, Gunthug said:

Same goes for dugtrio depending on its tier. It is uncompetitive in every tier, yes. But is it so uncompetitive that it becomes banworthy? That's a decision that needs to be made in each individual tier. Personally, i almost always think that answer is yes, but I still see the need to have that discussion - hence why this is a UU dugtrio thread and there may be an OU dugtrio thread down the road, if necessary. 

Trapping Abilitys, forgot to mention, can be complety nullified with Shed Shell. Obviously you don't bring 6 mons with it, however leave 1 or 2 to escape is complety viable.

 

 

[NiceRNGbro]

3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Trapping Abilitys, forgot to mention, can be complety nullified with Shed Shell. Obviously you don't bring 6 mons with it, however leave 1 or 2 to escape is complety viable.

Great idea Caio, with this item in my Infernape + vaccum wave I can run away from dugtrios and I can still kill Cloyster kings rock! Gaius, you are a misunderstood genius.

[Huargensy]

6 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Las habilidades de captura, olvidé mencionarlo, pueden anularse por completo con Shed Shell. Obviamente, no traes 6 mons con él, sin embargo, dejar 1 o 2 para escapar es completamente viable.

 

 

I am not going to play shed shell empoleon removing leftovers which is his only minimum health recovery, bad argument, if you play 2 pokes they are shed shell you only show that the hab is a problem, you could better take advantage of that item slot instead of an item that may or may not work for you

[CaptnBaklava]

11 hours ago, NiceRNGbro said:

Great idea Caio, with this item in my Infernape + vaccum wave I can run away from dugtrios and I can still kill Cloyster kings rock! Gaius, you are a misunderstood genius.

Vacuum Wave specs kills dugtrio with hazards up. L2P noob

[Imperial]

10 hours ago, Huargensy said:

I am not going to play shed shell empoleon removing leftovers which is his only minimum health recovery, bad argument, if you play 2 pokes they are shed shell you only show that the hab is a problem, you could better take advantage of that item slot instead of an item that may or may not work for you

I was playing in the OU tournament yesterday where I was going to win comfortably until the opponent brought out their Magnezone vs my Ferrothorn (after KO'ing their mon necessarily).

 

I was expecting the usual specs/scarf set until they decided to bring the good old niche Substitute / Charge Beam / Flash Cannon / Agility set, enabling them to finish me late game at +6 as I couldn't do anything offensively.

 

Should I have been more prepared by including Bulldoze in my moveset? Yes. Could I have played around differently considering I had Conkeldurr in my team? Yes.

 

My point being I agree that I shouldn't have to bring items like Shed Shell for niche situations like the above - people may say it's a strat, yes it is, but it's a cheap one and abusing its ability like with Dugtrio (not to Dug's extent though).

Edited February 27, 2022 by Imperial

[Quinn010]

keep dugtrio i like the teams i build with it and don't want to build somthing else ?

[Gunthug]

22 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Trapping Abilitys, forgot to mention, can be complety nullified with Shed Shell. Obviously you don't bring 6 mons with it, however leave 1 or 2 to escape is complety viable.

 

 

The only reason I mentioned shed shell was in reference to magnet pull, a similiar "trapping" ability but one that isn't deemed banworthy. Huge difference between having to consider shed shell on steel types, vs. having to consider shed shell on literally every grounded mon in the game. Steel types are extremely strong but come with their drawbacks, one of which is magnet pull. Grounded mons make up like 75% of the entire metagame and fit into all sorts of categories - it's an objectively healther metagame where 75% of the mons don't have to sacrifice their item slot to avoid getting picked off anytime they see duggy