ban sand veil

[NiceRNGbro]

the screenshot is not mine.

 

In a tournament final (so I was told) a player lost in the last turn for missing a 100% accuracy move.

This is wrong. In a game that everyone is fed up with losing by RNG and hax, and already dirty with winning for it so many times, losing for it or kings hax is not healthy

I know it's not the first time and unfortunately it won't be the last time someone has made a post here about it, I'm not one of the best "arguers" but it's a fact that it can be easily avoided. They just look like they don't want to at all.

 

I'm not here for this player but for the competitive PokeMMO community, and myself. I've lost many, many, many, many, many, many times, I can't take it anymore hax.

I've had a lot of downtime in the game so there are things that can and should be fixed. I'm honestly considering using gliscor sand attack, maybe it will work.

 

I know that many this and other RNG based stuff, removing RNG completely is unfeasible and wrong, but banning this ability is easy in my opinion. Whoever agrees with me, please argue in this post. Maybe the admins don't ignore us this time.

 

(Please CaioXLive, keep quiet this time.) Sorry for bad English, I used Google translator (I think I understand)

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by NiceRNGbro
Add one more thing.

[danhred]

The rng is part of the competitive world of Pokémon

Sorry ?

[Zymogen]

24 minutes ago, danhred said:

The rng is part of the competitive world of Pokémon

Sorry ?

So what is your stance on the evasion clause? 

 

The fact that it is an inherent mechanic is irrelevant. It's shit, it brings nothing positive to the competitive aspect of the game, and it takes the control of the battle completely out of the opposing player's hands with no skill or thought involved.

[NiceRNGbro]

29 minutes ago, danhred said:

The rng is part of the competitive world of Pokémon

Sorry ?

this is a fact as i said myself, But that's not the problem, the problem is the abuse and excess of it, King's Rock, Quick Claw (sounds like a joke but I've lost it a few times), togekiss, fucking freeze, paralyze in the last turn of battle, Cursed body, accupressure increasing evasion, there are many things that cause this, the whole game is made of that, but it is undeniable that a simple ban or nerf in King's Rock or sand veil would add a lot to community, in my opinion. 

 

This ability does not add anything other than handing the victory into the opponent's hands, it is irrelevant, it is just for that.

Edited January 4, 2022 by NiceRNGbro
This game caused me depression.

[suigin]

You're absolutely right but the devs want the game to be unfair, sorry bro.

[danhred]

 I know is annoying and it is something that affects everyone, but we have to accept that those are their skills is what they do and the admins are not going to ban everything that bothers us because we lost a game that way and we see it as "non-competitive" the bad and good rng exists
 you have to accept it, or wouldn't it be a bad rng on the part of the garchomp that his ability does not work? Or that togekiss didn't push the opponent back? Or that you take out your gengar in the hope of stopping that scizor with a bullet fist is simply all part of the competitive is its function
 Let's discuss when he is unbalanced when garchomp his ability does not depend on a sand climate or when cursed body is not only temporarily or when dugtrio affects flyers and Pokémon with levitation
 If you do not want to fail a move against garchomp in sand use a machamp with helpless skill and 0 concerns ? but as they only use the same pokemons and instead of finding a solution they come to cry 

Create me will have more fun looking for solutions
 they could even create a new goal :0

PS: my English is basic and this text is very long, I used translator ⚠️

[danhred]

1 hour ago, NiceRNGbro said:

This ability does not add anything other than handing the victory into the opponent's hands, it is irrelevant, it is just for that.

King's Rock is not a skill, it is an object and at the time they were banned for some reason they returned to the competitive 

I do not know what to tell you more about it I have never used a cloyster with king's rock seems to me a loss of potential is only good against wall and I do not use wall in my team so it has not been a danger when I have found it

Tip: the game sends a message saying cloyster lit his king's rock when that happens don't take out a wall because it will make you go back and back you wall even give him a chance to use his  Shell smash 

Edited January 4, 2022 by danhred
Loescribimalxd

[NiceRNGbro]

2 hours ago, danhred said:

King's Rock is not a skill, it is an object and at the time they were banned for some reason they returned to the competitive  

i know how pokemon works my friend, thank you so much for saying that.

The problem with King's Rock + Cloyster is the access to Shell Smash, this pokemon with speed and attack +2 basically passes the entire metagame, except for some with choice scarf like gengar, garchomp etc or  or also pokemons that are buffed by weather like excadrill, i think you also know how pokemon works.

 

With him outspeeding every metagame and flinching every one, what can the player do? Of course there is also a way to revert with cursed body, simply pray not to flinch or use priority moves Like scizor and Conkeldurr. We also have fake out mienshao, which you can fake out and then watch 4 partners die to finally be able to stop this damn shell

There is also low ladder Weavile, NU ambipom (this is not a considerable problem in my opinion)

After the notice that your opponent is using King's Rock, what do you do? "Wow, he wears King's Rock, I'm going to watch my entire team be flinch by him with no thought or strategy applied to it.

Anyway, it is a fact that this is unhealthy and we all know it.

 

[NiceRNGbro]

2 hours ago, danhred said:

I do not know what to tell you more about it I have never used a cloyster with king's rock seems to me a loss of potential is only good against wall and I do not use wall in my team so it has not been a danger when I have found it.

After he kills the walls who can absorb an icicle spear or rock blast hit without dying, he outspeeds my team and annihilates it, of course it's not that simple because my team is well structured, but even then depending on how the game goes, he tells me Hi! Now I'm going to finish you off at the base of the hax, watch and be happy :3 ❤️ ? ^^ ? UwU EwE UwU

[danhred]

Yo en realidad estoy de acuerdo y te entiendo completamente yo también sufro esas situaciones y eh tenido que lidiar con esas habilidades porque incluso el cuerpo maldito de Gengar no es tanto problema comparado con el de jellicent un wall al que ya de por si es difícil lidiar con el que te anule el movimiento con el que le eres eficaz es molesto pero debemos aprender a lidiar con eso porque ya lo comentaron aquí los admin no van a hacer mucho caso.
Por ejemplo esta el caso de la habilidad de dugtrio que lleva meses pidiéndo que se prohíba su habilidad no competitiva y eh leído muy buenos argumentos pero aún así lo máximo que han hecho es subirle a UU xD  y lo mismo con los objetos ya mencionados nunca debieron salir de la lista negra 

 

 

 

English:

 

I actually agree and I understand you completely I also suffer from those situations and I have had to deal with those skills because even the cursed body of Gengar is not so much a problem compared to that of jellicent a wall that is already difficult to deal with the one that annuls the movement with which you are effective is annoying annoying but we must learn to deal with it because they already commented here the admins are not going to pay much attention.
For example there is the case of the dugtrio ability that has been asking for months to prohibit their non-competitive ability and eh read very good arguments but still the most they have done is to upload to UU xD
and the same with the objects already mentioned should never have left the blacklist

[caioxlive13]

17 hours ago, NiceRNGbro said:

the screenshot is not mine.

 

In a tournament final (so I was told) a player lost in the last turn for missing a 100% accuracy move.

This is wrong. In a game that everyone is fed up with losing by RNG and hax, and already dirty with winning for it so many times, losing for it or kings hax is not healthy

I know it's not the first time and unfortunately it won't be the last time someone has made a post here about it, I'm not one of the best "arguers" but it's a fact that it can be easily avoided. They just look like they don't want to at all.

 

I'm not here for this player but for the competitive PokeMMO community, and myself. I've lost many, many, many, many, many, many times, I can't take it anymore hax.

I've had a lot of downtime in the game so there are things that can and should be fixed. I'm honestly considering using gliscor sand attack, maybe it will work.

 

I know that many this and other RNG based stuff, removing RNG completely is unfeasible and wrong, but banning this ability is easy in my opinion. Whoever agrees with me, please argue in this post. Maybe the admins don't ignore us this time.

 

I don't think just banning will solve the problem. They will take away King's Rock, but there will still be something to worry about: Serene Grace + 30% flinch moves (Which flinch more than cloyster, you can be surethat for a while, I suffered a lot for Togekiss, or better, Togefinch). They take away Spore, but still have Sleep Powder. even if one strategy, RNG-based or not, be removed, other comes to take their place.
 

Also, hax is part of the game. I lost count of how many times the move missed , and it cost me the match, even so I never came on the forum to curse the strategy of all that is name. I accepted and went to another game.

Taking out this type of hax, moreover, would benefit certain pokes that would normally be stopped by Hax, especially pokemon walls, so in this type of case, both the hax flinch and the direct beneficiaries of its removal should be nerfed. A heavy balancing I suggest is:

Hax Strategies:

- All moves that have 30% or more chance of flinch, will have 25% chance.
 - King's Rock and Razor Fang will have 7% of flinch per hit.
 - Serene Grace will increase in 1,5x the secondary effect of moves, if this effect secondary is Flinch
 - Cursed Body will have only 20% chance to activate in PvP battles.
 - Sand Veil/Snow Cloak will increase evasion only in PvE Battles. In PvP, they will be disabled.

Nerfs on Direct beneficiaries:

 - Eviolite's defense and Special defense buff will be droped from 1,5x to 1,35x 
 - Toxic and Thunder Wave's Accuracy will be dropped from 90 to 85
 - Marvel scale , when activated, will increase defense in 35%, instead of 50%

Other things that can be Reworked to become more balanced.

 - Wobbufet's Shadow Tag last 5 turns instead of 3.
 - Knock Off increase power from 20 to 40(Will not make knock off too powerful than knock off on showdown, but this will make him enter in meta.)
 - Dugtrio's Arena Trap last 3 turns only/Dugtrio's Arena Trap will not work if have 50% or less HP.
 - Outrage's Power increase to 105 or 120(Since it makes no sense nerf him more, Since he was op with Swords Dance Garchomp, however the Swords Dance has been removed from the garchomp.)

The intent of this balancing suggestion is not to suggest banning almost anything, but rather a rework on Hax items and strategies, to make it less boring to deal with, without killing the item/strategy altogether and making it disappear completely from the meta. Nerf the shadow tag and not buffing the Knock Off, make him useless in most part of situations(Especially knock off, that remove opponent's item, however leave him with one free turn, because the move didn't deal damage and do nothing except remove the item, that trick can do over well and leave a Item to trap opponent(Example: Iron Ball, Sticky Barb or choice Items), so it's most used.) and the result is: Mons with Shadow Tag and the move knock off, is rarely seen in actual metagaming, even in Never Used. 

To people that want to know how much chance of flinch, will have after this balancing, if applied, is:
King's Rock + 5 Hits: 30,43116307%
King's Rock + 6 Hits: 35,3009816551%
Serene Grace + Air Slash : 37,5%
Flinch chance with King's Rock + 5 hits: -26,82%
Flinch chance with King's Rock + 6 hits: -23,91%
Flinch chance with Serene Grace + Air Slash : -37,5%  

To people that want to calc:

Spoiler

• RNG chance on a Multi-hit:

 (x - x/y)
x is the chance of you not flinch. in start of calc, is 100.
y is the chance of flinch per hit.

You need to make this calc, then pick the result and replace X.
then, calc again and pick the new result and replace the old.
Repeat this process once time for each hit.
Pick the number result and make this calc. X is the number that you obtain:

100 - x = RNG chance.

Well, let's use a example, since it's hard to explain.
This is the calc for Flinch of king's rock, on a 5-hit move, before the possible balancing:
100 - 100/10 = 90
90 - 90/10 = 81
81 - 81/10 = 72,9
72,9 - 72,9/10 = 65,61
65,61 - 65,61/10 = 59,049

100 - 59,049 = 40,951

In a 5-hit move, the flinch chance is 40,951%.
 

• Movement rate.

The calc to you comparate the percent of movement, is:
x . 100/y 
x = the recent movement
y = the other movement that you are using to comparate.

Make this calc, then :
x  - 100 = movement rate

x is the result of calc maked before.

If the result is positive, then is a increase. If negative, then decrease.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by caioxlive13

[suigin]

16 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Garbage as usual

We have told you repeatedly stall has plenty of counterplay besides hax, check this thread for wallbreakers and stallbreakers.

Togekiss is not the same since it's a much slower Pokemon even at +1 with a scarf, you cannot compare its speed to a +2 Cloyster.

Maybe get out of 200 elo and stop using Ambipom in OU before you post.

[danhred]

47 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Cursed Body will have only 20% chance to activate in PvP battles

Even if the probability is lowered, people will continue to protest because in his departure he lost because of that

[caioxlive13]

2 minutes ago, danhred said:

Even if the probability is lowered, people will continue to protest because in his departure he lost because of that

"The intent of this balancing suggestion is not to suggest banning almost anything, but rather a rework on Hax items and strategies, to make it less boring to deal with, without killing the item/strategy altogether and making it disappear completely from the meta."

I agree that people will still crying that he loses to this strategy, however it will become a minory irrelevant that only defend your preferences. The number of times that this hax will activate , will low, however it can be still activate
 

[heichicoda]

King's rock is still alive jajaja

[NiceRNGbro]

11 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Also, hax is part of the game. 

  Reveal hidden contents

• RNG chance on a Multi-hit:

 (x - x/y)
x is the chance of you not flinch. in start of calc, is 100.
y is the chance of flinch per hit.

You need to make this calc, then pick the result and replace X.
then, calc again and pick the new result and replace the old.
Repeat this process once time for each hit.
Pick the number result and make this calc. X is the number that you obtain:

100 - x = RNG chance.

Well, let's use a example, since it's hard to explain.
This is the calc for Flinch of king's rock, on a 5-hit move, before the possible balancing:
100 - 100/10 = 90
90 - 90/10 = 81
81 - 81/10 = 72,9
72,9 - 72,9/10 = 65,61
65,61 - 65,61/10 = 59,049

100 - 59,049 = 40,951

In a 5-hit move, the flinch chance is 40,951%.
 

• Movement rate.

The calc to you comparate the percent of movement, is:
x . 100/y 
x = the recent movement
y = the other movement that you are using to comparate.

Make this calc, then :
x  - 100 = movement rate

x is the result of calc maked before.

If the result is positive, then is a increase. If negative, then decrease.

 

 

 

17 hours ago, NiceRNGbro said:

this is a fact as i said myself, But that's not the problem, the problem is the abuse and excess of it, King's Rock, Quick Claw (sounds like a joke but I've lost it a few times), togekiss, fucking freeze, paralyze in the last turn of battle, Cursed body, accupressure increasing evasion, there are many things that cause this, the whole game is made of that, but it is undeniable that a simple ban or nerf in King's Rock or sand veil would add a lot to community, in my opinion. 

 

This ability does not add anything other than handing the victory into the opponent's hands, it is irrelevant, it is just for that.

Caio, you've already tried to think about what you're talking about, start using your brain instead of using flareon in the low ladder and find yourself thinking that he killed some Pokemon.

 

But that's not the case with the post, about nerf King's Rock and etc, it would help a lot too. But there are things that are unfeasible to leave in the Caio metagame, learn this. I've lost count of how many times tried to make you have an ounce of clarity in your mind Togekiss is nothing like Cloyster, precisely because of its speed. You know it. Anyone who suffers for togekiss either doesn't have a good team, is a noob or simply has a slower team, basically Everyone on the high ladder knows And I don't fall, the problem is not in the high ladder, neither in the stall nor in the PSL.

 

(I honestly got tired of this caio, leave it with its flareon mixed scarf over used.)

[NiceRNGbro]

However unfortunately nothing will happen again. We will continue to suffer from this and other things that are unnecessary and can be banned or nerfed, I'll wait Hidden Abilities, until 2047 friends.

 

Gliscor sand attack is ready, I'll use it with Quick claw too.

Edited January 5, 2022 by NiceRNGbro
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