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December 2021-Movement Discussion Thread


Munya

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1 hour ago, Munya said:

Last month they all reported their matches and met the quota except one person whos vote didn't matter anyway at the time, this month they have not all gotten back to me yet but a few people have met the quota and the ones that haven't I am not going to punish during the holiday season when things are naturally busy for people.  They will not get a vote on things though, and this has been disclosed to them.  I will not be publicly disclosing ranks or how much people competed beyond the requirement, which is currently at least 1 match per day of the month, they don't all have to be on the same day. If any of them wishes to disclose more than that, they are free to.

So in 2 months of the system implemented more than once some members did not play enough games. Sounds good and healthy for me. Any data on how many games they had to play? How many semifinals they reached?Wich was the highest elo they reach? What win% they had? Playing 500 elo UU or NU cannot be compared to 1-50 in ladder. All in all I would like this system to be more transparent for us. 

 

Not sure why you count November as a Holly day month. Is there someone besides JJ that is in an area of the world that's celebrating Thanksgiving? 

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6 minutes ago, TohnR said:

I think the issue isn't the system but the community. People just don't want to play so they don't.

Well you could argue the game doesn't give them a reason to play the ladder at all, since it gives useless rewards for late game people, since the exclusive vanities are already acquired by the ladder regulars after 1 whole year, since placing wherever on the ladder is meaningless since not rewarded by the game, etc ... 

But all in all, if the hundreds of people that sign up to UU & NU tournaments did play a ladder game every other day, we wouldn't be where we are with 5 whole days of inactivity before the first game of UU was played this month. Where you can queue for 6h and not find a single game on a daily basis, etc

The comp community has a large enough pool of players to have active UU & NU ladders, it just doesn't want to, in my opinion. 

I have a feeling that it's quite bad for people in our time zones. I can find matches relatively easy during night times in our timezone but that's fucking night and most of the time I have to sleep cause of work. Feels like majority of our comp community is from Latin America and Asia. 

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31 minutes ago, CaptnBaklava said:

So in 2 months of the system implemented more than once some members did not play enough games. Sounds good and healthy for me. Any data on how many games they had to play? How many semifinals they reached?Wich was the highest elo they reach? What win% they had? Playing 500 elo UU or NU cannot be compared to 1-50 in ladder. All in all I would like this system to be more transparent for us. 

 

Not sure why you count November as a Holly day month. Is there someone besides JJ that is in an area of the world that's celebrating Thanksgiving? 

Nobody has more than once, single people have once individually.  This is all I am going to say on the subject, as why they may or may not have been able to participate is between each individual member and myself/other overseeing staff.

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8 minutes ago, Munya said:

Nobody has more than once, single people have once individually.  This is all I am going to say on the subject, as why they may or may not have been able to participate is between each individual member and myself/other overseeing staff.

Might I get my other questions answered? And if not can I get an answer why not? 

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@CaptnBaklava We all want transparency, and Munya has done a surprising job sharing that the TC has sucked ass this past month and our remaining membership just hasn't been active. We also haven't recruited any new members to our dwindling team, which is also of concern. The system is also hurting, as UU and NU matchmaking isn't getting the participation it used to, resulting in more dramatic shifts as popularity in team cores swing (y'all just copy each other and lack originality tbh).

 

Overall though, it's a good system in my book, we just lack the structure to make it effective currently. TC is half-dead. Game is half-dead. If we somehow improved both of those we'd be in a better place, but alas, that is unlikely to happen.

 

My suggestion would be to once again recruit active TC members and to shift usage to focus on tournament play. I am sure developers can implement changes to follow usage in tournaments as well. Additionally, changing to a "high-ELO" only usage system isn't beneficial either, as that would narrow usage even more. We all recognize that high ladder players tend to just copy one another and usage isn't that varied.

 

In the end though, this rant is meaningless. Having occasional changes is good for the game and however dead the TC might be, it is our duty to block broken crap from dropping. Have we been successful in that? Not really, as those of us who are active (like myself) have a bias toward testing, which takes time and resources. Something that everyone in this MMO hate to do... even though... it's an MMO and that's what you're supposed to do.

 

tl;dr Dead TC + Dead Game = Poor System

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20 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

About Hax itens nerf, now, what is the following Measures? The nerf will be removed, still the same situation or will be banned again?? If possible, can tell?


My suggestion is only remove the Nerf, but add a Single-Op Clasule, that allows only one OP item per team. Can test this feature in Randoms, and add to OU to next season, if work normally
(If want to rework King's rock from next season, can make this:
Multi-hit condition: If the user uses a Multi-hit move, the flinch chance drops to 7,5-8%(At best scenary, the chance of flinch would drop to 32.29-34.10%. Compared to 41% before, it would improve (Relevant Multi-hit with 5 hits)) per hit. Can still allow the item to use in OU, releasing him to OP item Clasule, and making clasule active/limited(Talked about above.).

But, to don't make unbalanced, and make walls goes more Safety:

Reduces Eviolite Buff from 1,5x to 1,4x
Reduces Toxic/Thunder Wave Accuracy to 85)

this is legit too funny.

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On 11/30/2021 at 6:10 AM, Munya said:

Se você deseja falar sobre itens hax, faça-o no tópico para ele, eles não foram mencionados de forma alguma neste tópico e ninguém declarou o que vai acontecer ou pode acontecer com eles. pessoal ou de outra forma. Isso está fora do escopo das atualizações mensais de classificação.


Miracle have passed almost 1 month and nothing of a new topic.

Edited by caioxlive13
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On 11/27/2021 at 7:01 AM, Munya said:

 

 

What would have happened in a new season, if I didn't miss anything:  These are not actual changes, just what would have been.

  Reveal hidden contents

Up to OU:

Torkoal and Aerodactyl

 

Down to UU:

Heracross

 

Up to UU:

Blaziken, Typhlosion, Toxicroak

 

Down to NU:

Electrode, Gligar,Rhyperior


Aerodactyl also made the cutoff for NU but because it would have been above OUs cutoff it would have instead moved to OU


 

 

About the possible tier changes, if the season ended today, I think it would save UU, as it turned into a tier without decent Fighters, since Heracross moved up (Medicham honestly doesn't do anything there), but at the same time, it would kill the NU, since several pokemons from there that the blaziken normally countered, will have a chance to come back, because Blaziken is the only decent Fight-type from tier. One of them is the danger with King's Rock = Sneasel. Only Beat Up would calmly hold any wall, making Untiered mons go up the tier, like Hitmonchan, just to check it. In spite of that, it would be good because pokemons that are well submerged in the tier, might, who knows, show up and show their potential? Time will tell...

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  • 2 weeks later...

@DoubleJ yo why not put in a system that will allow all players for all skill lvls to test out whatever you want to test?

For exp if Torkoal where to go up to OU a decision based ( i assume) solly on numbers , wich is cringe af xd , rather then steealing torkoal away from uu players cuz idk:someone plays sun in ou or someone plays torkoal in a sand team or whatever , why not put in a reward system like : ''Hey we think torkoal is kinda too op for uu ( aka has big number is usage) how about the UU player , play like 50/60+ games with torkoal in you're team and we see how you do and ofc for you're hard work we will give x,y,z''

Now ik this my sound bad , since you encourage players to play something they don t like or don t want to play for some rewards but we need to ask this :Will this new testing system have bad affects over the game in the long run? Maybe i say its a 50/50

Will this new testing system have good affects over the game in the long run? Well tbh idk that xd BUT on the short run this (im 100% sure) will happen :

1)Players will start and play tiers they normmaly wouldn't play for some rewards so tiers like uu and nu can become more acctive

2)Players that were ghosting or give up on the pvp can become  acctive again , not necessarily cuz some rewards but for the felling that they actually contribute to the game even more so then before

3)There will be no more copy & paste teams and ppl will become original with theyr team building, how so? Well a huge flux of players all rushing to reward x or y will make the meta of that tier develope faster since everyone will want to counter eachother at the end of the day and thus mons that ppl  never thougth about useing are now in theyr partys and wait theyr turn to shine!!! 😄

Is this ideam omega stupid?Maybe

Will it do more harm then good to the game or the community as a whole in the long run?Maybe

Is it worth to give it a try?Yes

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If season ended Today:

Slowbro:
- 4,34% on november
- 5,48% on October
- 5,58% on December

Overall: 5,1333....% on Season.

Slowbro will go UP from Never Used to Under Used, if keep the usage for more 10 days. And with nobody playing PvP UU, now due to Popularization of randoms, and with the event of 25th december, Christmas Event , that will probablly happen, a 5 days to probally happen, this usage probablly will not change.

I calculated, with a little more than 3% of usage in December, Slowbro goes up to UU. 3,26% to be precise

%

Now, numbers of Slowbro in December:
 - Second Most used in Never Used.
Well, NU's meta will broke and Drastically change.

Edited by caioxlive13
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6 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

If season ended Today:

Slowbro:
- 4,34% on november
- 5,48% on October
- 5,58% on December

Overall: 5,1333....% on Season.

Slowbro will go UP from Never Used to Under Used, if keep the usage for more 10 days. And with nobody playing PvP UU, now due to Popularization of randoms, and with the event of 25th december, Christmas Event , that will probablly happen, a 5 days to probally happen, this usage probablly will not change.

I calculated, with a little more than 3% of usage in December, Slowbro goes up to UU. 3,26% to be precise

%

Now, numbers of Slowbro in December:
 - Second Most used in Never Used.
Well, NU's meta will broke and Drastically change.

Nobody will take anything you say seriously.

 

However what I will say is that the current 4.36% system is no longer viable - I am happy to try and spam certain Pokemon in the new season to further validate my point.

 

I made a suggestion earlier this month about how we can possibly make this better:

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Imperial said:

Nobody will take anything you say seriously.

 

However what I will say is that the current 4.36% system is no longer viable - I am happy to try and spam certain Pokemon in the new season to further validate my point.

 

I made a suggestion earlier this month about how we can possibly make this better:

 

 

Is not viable this actual system, i agree, however if implemented your system, he will be implemented only in Next Season.

And other thing that i didn't mentioned yet: P-Z are still watched by TC(Until they tell that him will no longer watch P-Z, that is the most updated information) and can be banned from UU next season. 

Edited by caioxlive13
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On 12/13/2021 at 5:54 PM, YourAngst said:

@DoubleJ yo why not put in a system that will allow all players for all skill lvls to test out whatever you want to test?

For exp if Torkoal where to go up to OU a decision based ( i assume) solly on numbers , wich is cringe af xd , rather then steealing torkoal away from uu players cuz idk:someone plays sun in ou or someone plays torkoal in a sand team or whatever , why not put in a reward system like : ''Hey we think torkoal is kinda too op for uu ( aka has big number is usage) how about the UU player , play like 50/60+ games with torkoal in you're team and we see how you do and ofc for you're hard work we will give x,y,z''

Now ik this my sound bad , since you encourage players to play something they don t like or don t want to play for some rewards but we need to ask this :Will this new testing system have bad affects over the game in the long run? Maybe i say its a 50/50

Will this new testing system have good affects over the game in the long run? Well tbh idk that xd BUT on the short run this (im 100% sure) will happen :

1)Players will start and play tiers they normmaly wouldn't play for some rewards so tiers like uu and nu can become more acctive

2)Players that were ghosting or give up on the pvp can become  acctive again , not necessarily cuz some rewards but for the felling that they actually contribute to the game even more so then before

3)There will be no more copy & paste teams and ppl will become original with theyr team building, how so? Well a huge flux of players all rushing to reward x or y will make the meta of that tier develope faster since everyone will want to counter eachother at the end of the day and thus mons that ppl  never thougth about useing are now in theyr partys and wait theyr turn to shine!!! 😄

Is this ideam omega stupid?Maybe

Will it do more harm then good to the game or the community as a whole in the long run?Maybe

Is it worth to give it a try?Yes

=5b52a716ffbdf188b47fce9b9ec5bd5b.png
nothing more to say 

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1 hour ago, Quinn010 said:

 

=5b52a716ffbdf188b47fce9b9ec5bd5b.png
nothing more to say 

image.png.581e5bf893d05eca512a31325b802161.png
Eh... some people don't think by the same way, and wish to ban everything that are "Uncompetitive" and "Uncounterable".

"Topic: Ban King's Rock for PvP." Only use cloyster with a only lead with this item, during discussion, to say that only cloyster uses it and it is uncounterable, and with this reason this item need to be banned, and weavile uses this item too. Both dies to a Single Infernape with Vaccum Wave XD(I use, so... Matchmaking will not put me to face one, like when i use jolteon(that MM don't put me to face Gyarados in any circunstance, and when i remove it from team, for each 5 matchs, 3 is against Gyarados), so if you don't want to face one thing, just put the counter of it in your team, and matchmaking will avoid to place you against everything that you will counter without trouble), and Even Lucario Special OHKO cloyster and weavile regardless of situation.

I need to talk something?

Edited by caioxlive13
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On 12/20/2021 at 12:41 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Both dies to a Single Infernape with Vaccum Wave XD(I use, so... Matchmaking will not put me to face one, like when i use jolteon(that MM don't put me to face Gyarados in any circunstance, and when i remove it from team, for each 5 matchs, 3 is against Gyarados), so if you don't want to face one thing, just put the counter of it in your team, and matchmaking will avoid to place you against everything that you will counter without trouble)

I agree and will even add to this great conspiracy. Matchmaking sets a handicap for each player based on how good they are (if you play someone whose level is way below you, he gets RNG set to 100 and you to 0), so if you don't want to face trash lucky players, just play on an alt to trick the system into thinking you're a random. 

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3 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

I agree and will even add to this great conspiracy. Matchmaking sets a handicap for each player based on how good they are (if you play someone whose level is way below you, he gets RNG set to 100 and you to 0), so if you don't want to face trash lucky players, just play on an alt to trick the system into thinking you're a random. 

This is literally happens with me. I don't use jolteon, fight against a 3-5 gyarados in each 10 matches. Using Jolteon in team = He never appears.

Since I put infernape in team, i don't found too much cloysters, and when i found one, is Scarfed/Sash, and not with "op" King's Rock(And i don't play PSL, only Matchmaking, so hax items still allowed. I can't even test my infernape against a King's rock cloyster, and i make my Infernape to counter one without trouble.).

Edited by caioxlive13
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39 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Since I put infernape in team, i don't found too much cloysters, and when i found one, is Scarfed/Sash, and not with "op" King's Rock(And i don't play PSL, only Matchmaking, so hax items still allowed. I can't even test my infernape against a King's rock cloyster, and i make my Infernape to counter one without trouble.).

It almost look like the real game is different than imaginary situations in forum posts !

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18 minutes ago, Poufilou said:

It almost look like the real game is different than imaginary situations in forum posts !

And before talk something: I can't test my nape against Cloyster King's Rock because MM doesn't put me to face one.

Is incredible how i am "Lucky", right? At least more lucky than people trat cry ban of Hax items and Some Strategies RNG-based.

Is desonest use hax? Yes. But if uses a 6-Wall team against a Rookie Trainer is allowed, hax need to be allowed too, we need to be fair(Rookie Trainers will keep 1 hour in match for free, since he probablly doesn't have nothing to counter wall, and the hax is your only chance. Depending of him, have a chance of he doesn't even know what forfeit button does, and don't use him, even if he already lose, extending a match a little more).

Edited by caioxlive13
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1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

This is literally happens with me. I don't use jolteon, fight against a 3-5 gyarados in each 10 matches. Using Jolteon in team = He never appears.

Since I put infernape in team, i don't found too much cloysters, and when i found one, is Scarfed/Sash, and not with "op" King's Rock(And i don't play PSL, only Matchmaking, so hax items still allowed. I can't even test my infernape against a King's rock cloyster, and i make my Infernape to counter one without trouble.).

A real shame you don't play PSL :c

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12 minutes ago, Juanchoqui said:

A real shame you don't play PSL :c

I use PSL to explain better. In PSL, King's rock is banned(Unnecessary ban, since the bests Leads for King's Rock didn't resist to a simple Vaccum Wave used by one Lucario or Infernape). So, in PSL you can't found one. But i play matchmaking, when the item is 100% allowed, and i don't found one, even if the most used item in Cloysters.

Edited by caioxlive13
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