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Make TC votes public / add suspect tests with community voting


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i can make this thread a wall of text or just few sentence it get ignored anyways. 

 

my suggestion is to make tc votes public so we can see what they vote and who we need convice rn the discussion threads are complete ussles. your talking to a wall the only tc that react is jj sometimes pachi but thats only 2members the others dont exist ?????. if votes dont become public my suggestion to remove discussion threads since they ussles and you save the time from some players. 

 

also with suspect test let atleast the community vote what is a test when the testers dont even play this game lmfao.

 

@Munya

Edited by Quinn010
forget to ping
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  • Quinn010 changed the title to Make TC votes public / add suspect tests with community voting

What is the point of these monthly tiering discussions if TC votes 4 months prior to these tiering discussions being opened? If TC make up their mind momths in advance, what's the point of asking us what we think.

 

Also, we as a community have nothing to discuss in these threads because we don't know what TC members are voting for and have no idea what their opinion is based on. It's not possible for us to convince TC members to change their mind if we don't know what their mind is made of. If at the very least TC had to abide by a Tiering Etiquette, it would be possible to argue (without knowing where each TC members stands) whether or not a pokemon fits certain uber criteria. Without a Tiering Etiquette or transparency from TC, we have no common ground to discuss any of the tiering issues.

Edited by gbwead
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54 minutes ago, gbwead said:

What is the point of these monthly tiering discussions if TC votes 4 months prior to these tiering discussions being opened? If TC make up their mind momths in advance, what's the point of asking us what we think.

Think of the discussion threads as a support group where you can voice your opinion about the tier just to let it out of your system, while also ingesting copium that enables you to continue playing this game. 

Edited by NikhilR
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2 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

Think of the discussion threads as a support group where you can voice your opinion about the tier just to let it out of your system, while also ingesting copium that enables you to continue playing this game. 

What if my posts get censored because a member of TC disagrees with me and asks staff to remove them? Rip my support.

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5 hours ago, Quinn010 said:

1 example why this system rn is complete ussles. Havsha providing some calcs make some arguments but no tc reacts (besides jj with a troll post). What's the point of these threads most of the time these threads just end with derailling and no discussions. @Munya

Not gonna lie, but seeing no TC memebers address the calcs was the straw that broke the camel back for me, I wanted to give TC the benefit of the doubt, but come on now, I put in the effort to raise a genuine concern with calcs and a fair arguement, but get nothing back? How am I meant to believe the TC is even discussing anything in private when they don't even answer the quite frankly predicatble concerns raised by the community?

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I don’t know why I need to answer, lucario is tested, I didn’t support lucario or whatever, I just want to do my own opinion about it, 

i see all these calc and discussions but nothing better than just test it by myself.

most complaining players didn’t even play UU ya zebi 

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6 minutes ago, Mkns1070 said:

I don’t know why I need to answer, lucario is tested, I didn’t support lucario or whatever, I just want to do my own opinion about it, 

i see all these calc and discussions but nothing better than just test it by myself.

most complaining players didn’t even play UU ya zebi 

If the best way to assess the situation is to play the meta yourself instead of discussing, then we might as well poll the public so they can make the decisions, right?

Edited by Zymogen
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I like the idea of making a big pool with a lot of good players from all team, that something sometime I want to do, it can help us to have an community opinion.

But if you think I’ll answer when someone cry about something every 2 days no thanks xD

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38 minutes ago, Mkns1070 said:

I don’t know why I need to answer

Because as a member of the TC you aren't just representing yourself, but the entire competitive community, many of whom would like to actually know you all aren't just doing nothing.

 

38 minutes ago, Mkns1070 said:

I just want to do my own opinion about it, 

i see all these calc and discussions but nothing better than just test it by myself.

Thats fine and all, but the when it takes 5 months to ban something that can pretty clearly be shown through calcs as being busted, then theres a problem. If tiering policy was different, or whatever the reason TC seems slow to act, then this would be fine, but waiting 5 month for what seems to be an obviously problematic pokemon to be banned because you ignored the calcs is dumb. I understand theorymmo can only do so much, but gees.

 

38 minutes ago, Mkns1070 said:

most complaining players didn’t even play UU ya zebi 

If you know which players play UU and which dont, then you're welcome to only respond to those who play UU or at very least show through their arguements that they have a genuine point, because yeah there are people who don't know what they're talking about at all, which no one expects TC to respond to.

Edited by Havsha
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31 minutes ago, Havsha said:

If you know which players play UU and which dont, then you're welcome to only respond to those who play UU or at very least show through their arguements that they have a genuine point, because yeah there are people who don't know what they're talking about at all, which no one expects TC to respond to.

Should I answer to you then ? I didn’t see your name in the top UU ladder and in the 3 last pages of the UU tournament..

 

i understand what players are complaining about, I’m also a PvP player ^^’ but sometime, I think you forgot what is the job of TC. 
better complaint about the system or how tiering policy is.

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14 minutes ago, Mkns1070 said:

Should I answer to you then ? I didn’t see your name in the top UU ladder and in the 3 last pages of the UU tournament..

Okay assuming im completey trash at UU (I'm a queen at uu though, so that might need a lot of creativity and imagination) I still raised a valid concerm, and supported my claims with an argument and calcs, based off that alone, it should be an adequate reason to answer me query. (its not like my post in the thread was a salty rage post, it wasnt like I just lost to a lucario in UU, since it wasnt UU yet. Now if you can read the post and think to yourself "huh, shes crazy, lucario isnt a threat just because it cant be walled and revenged, what is she on about?" then fair enough ignore me. But, I dont think you can really deny that Lucario looks at least on paper a little busted and that the concerns I mentioned werent valid.

 

14 minutes ago, Mkns1070 said:

i understand what players are complaining about, I’m also a PvP player ^^’ but sometime, I think you forgot what is the job of TC. 
better complaint about the system or how tiering policy is.

Im sure a lot of our frustration is misdirected towards the TC, when it should be towards Munya (sorry if you aren't in charge of that munya) or whoever is in charge of the Tier policies, buuut from the outside perspective you all are whowe can appeal to (As you have the people in charge of the tier policies' ear). At the end of the day as little faith we may have in the TC right now, I assure you I have even less faith in the devs, so most of us realise we shouldnt even bother trying to talk to them

Edited by Havsha
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18 minutes ago, Mkns1070 said:
18 minutes ago, Mkns1070 said:

Should I answer to you then ? I didn’t see your name in the top UU ladder and in the 3 last pages of the UU tournament..

 

 

It is not necessary to win UU tournaments to provide calculations, anyone can and that is not why the comment in the discussion will be denied, you are wrong if you think that it takes 20/30 tournaments to give a personal opinion

Edited by Huargensy
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19 minutes ago, Huargensy said:

It is not necessary to win UU tournaments to provide calculations, anyone can and that is not why the comment in the discussion will be denied, you are wrong if you think that it takes 20/30 tournaments to give a personal opinion

I don’t ask player to win tournament lol, but a player who didn’t play for me his opinion isn’t relevant 

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1 hour ago, EricRasp said:

Ah yes .. Name them, blame them, and shame them! 🤣

Pretty much why it will never be required.

 

We aren't polling the community, the devs have expressed they do not wish for that to be a thing, also if we did it it would be off the leaderboard out of all likeliness and not many of the players here arguing are even on the top 100 there, 

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5 minutes ago, Munya said:

Pretty much why it will never be required.

 

We aren't polling the community, the devs have expressed they do not wish for that to be a thing, also if we did it it would be off the leaderboard out of all likeliness and not many of the players here arguing are even on the top 100 there, 

To be fair the leaderboard is basically who is able to spam the most games on ladder - the top 10 or players like Orange who were top 3 consistently have credibility, but in my opinion leaderboard alone isn't a good enough basis to form judgement on.

 

To expand, the leaderboard is mainly useful for people who want to farm BP and get the seasonal hats, as the Pokemon aren't worth getting for most players commenting here.

Edited by Imperial
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5 minutes ago, Munya said:

Pretty much why it will never be required.

 

We aren't polling the community, the devs have expressed they do not wish for that to be a thing, also if we did it it would be off the leaderboard out of all likeliness and not many of the players here arguing are even on the top 100 there, 

Many tc members are not even on the top 100 there lol

 

Many of them don't even play the game, there are some names I haven't seen online at all. Like ever. And I play since 3 years 

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3 hours ago, gbwead said:

What if my posts get censored because a member of TC disagrees with me and asks staff to remove them? Rip my support.

I would answer this question in a manner similar to how Rendi responded to Xatu by mailing an escape rope to him ingame, but I don't want to get banned xD

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13 minutes ago, CaptnBaklava said:

Many tc members are not even on the top 100 there lol

 

Many of them don't even play the game, there are some names I haven't seen online at all. Like ever. And I play since 3 years 

We don't use the system so it doesn't matter.

They all play now its a requirement, if they don't they don't get to vote at the end of the month and will be removed.

15 minutes ago, Imperial said:

To be fair the leaderboard is basically who is able to spam the most games on ladder - the top 10 or players like Orange who were top 3 consistently have credibility, but in my opinion leaderboard alone isn't a good enough basis to form judgement on.

 

To expand, the leaderboard is mainly useful for people who want to farm BP and get the seasonal hats, as the Pokemon aren't worth getting for most players commenting here.

Its the metric we have, and we aren't going to be using it anyway.

 

3 hours ago, gbwead said:

What if my posts get censored because a member of TC disagrees with me and asks staff to remove them? Rip my support.

Your posts were removed for derailing the thread, your posts were not the only ones removed, JJ also had his posts removed as well as several other random posts thrown in here and there.  He had no influence on that decision. 

 

I gave you both an opportunity to get it back on track, it unfortunately never did and that was a mistake on my part in the end.

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You already explained you ain't doing it based on Eric's comment & this isn't a official staff/TC post so without doubt will have derailed comments. You don't follow the metric we have because the ladder players as explained as mostly who played the most (i'm sure there are many who are genuinely trying to improve, good for them) then what the heck are you doing munya?

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4 minutes ago, Kupokun said:

You already explained you ain't doing it based on Eric's comment & this isn't a official staff/TC post so without doubt will have derailed comments.

What are you talking about? Nothing has been hidden in this thread.  He is talking about posts in the suspect thread which is indeed a Staff/TC official thread.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Munya said:

players here arguing are even on the top 100 there, 

i am top 100 every season and i think this would make the players motivate to play ladder.  also nice dodging the other suggestion from your ussles braindead discussion threads since its pretty much talking to a wall thread (maybe a good name) 

Edited by Quinn010
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1 hour ago, Mkns1070 said:

but sometime, I think you forgot what is the job of TC. 
better complaint about the system or how tiering policy is.

The job of TC is to be the voice of community and based on the community's input, TC is supposed to make decisions regarding tiering to benefit the metagame the most and create as healthy environment for us, players (and yourselves) as possible. For a longer period of time, TC does not discuss anything with us and the decision with bringing down Lucario despite our very strong voice of disagreement only proves that the playerbase's opinion doesn't mean shit and you will just do what you want. Bringing down Lucario as far as I'm concerned is not something that the upper echelons decided and it was a TC decission, for which you are getting bashed right now from multiple sides and this only proves how angry is the community about the current situation with the council itself along your decisions. Really glad you banned Dugtrio, that was a step forward, but you made 2 steps back by bringing Lucario down to UU.

 

I am not angry at TC for not banning King's Rock, Bright Powder, Sand Veil or other bullshit like that. I know this is our of your hands guys and the entire tiering system and policies are so fucked up in MMO I can barely find words in any of the 3 languages I know to describe them (and those that come to my mind would probably earn me the last warning). But bringing down Lucario is something we were strongly opposed against and it was your doing.

 

I don't wanna move the entire discussion about Lucario to this thread but I'll sum it up how I would fix the entire situation:

 

1. Community-voted polls regarding any suspect threads, just like it is on Showdown.

2. Only active players recruited for Tierlist Council.

3. Quickban Lucario

Spoiler

4. dary mom

 

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