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[UU Suspect Test] Lucario


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Tournament Usage over the weekend

Spoiler

All Teams Total Pokemon Total Teams Winning Teams Win Rate
  1440 240    
Pokemon Raw Usage Percentage    
Crobat (169) 121 50.42% 69 57.02%
Lucario (448) 103 42.92% 57 55.34%
Rotom [Heat Rotom] (657) 86 35.83% 44 51.16%
Porygon2 (233) 71 29.58% 36 50.70%
Bronzong (437) 58 24.17% 36 62.07%
Empoleon (395) 57 23.75% 35 61.40%
Krookodile (553) 48 20.00% 29 60.42%
Flygon (330) 42 17.50% 19 45.24%
Medicham (308) 37 15.42% 22 59.46%
Mismagius (429) 37 15.42% 23 62.16%
Mamoswine (473) 34 14.17% 19 55.88%
Staraptor (398) 31 12.92% 17 54.84%
Sigilyph (561) 30 12.50% 15 50.00%
Spiritomb (442) 30 12.50% 14 46.67%
Swampert (260) 30 12.50% 16 53.33%
Vaporeon (134) 30 12.50% 13 43.33%
Durant (632) 29 12.08% 15 51.72%
Tentacruel (73) 28 11.67% 14 50.00%
Azumarill (184) 27 11.25% 11 40.74%
Yanmega (469) 26 10.83% 12 46.15%
Dusclops (356) 24 10.00% 8 33.33%
Arcanine (59) 22 9.17% 7 31.82%
Venomoth (49) 21 8.75% 10 47.62%
Druddigon (621) 20 8.33% 6 30.00%
Blastoise (9) 19 7.92% 8 42.11%
Umbreon (197) 17 7.08% 7 41.18%
Donphan (232) 16 6.67% 10 62.50%
Forretress (205) 16 6.67% 6 37.50%
Porygon-Z (474) 16 6.67% 7 43.75%
Gastrodon (423) 15 6.25% 9 60.00%
Gigalith (526) 15 6.25% 8 53.33%
Snorlax (143) 14 5.83% 6 42.86%
Roserade (407) 13 5.42% 5 38.46%
Venusaur (3) 13 5.42% 7 53.85%
Lanturn (171) 12 5.00% 5 41.67%
Aerodactyl (142) 11 4.58% 6 54.55%
Bisharp (625) 11 4.58% 4 36.36%
Dugtrio (51) 11 4.58% 3 27.27%
Gligar (207) 10 4.17% 4 40.00%
Rhyperior (464) 10 4.17% 6 60.00%
Torkoal (324) 8 3.33% 3 37.50%
Toxicroak (454) 8 3.33% 6 75.00%
Electrode (101) 7 2.92% 4 57.14%
Slowbro (80) 7 2.92% 2 28.57%
Claydol (344) 6 2.50% 2 33.33%
Machamp (68) 6 2.50% 1 16.67%
Alakazam (65) 5 2.08% 2 40.00%
Blaziken (257) 5 2.08% 1 20.00%
Exeggutor (103) 5 2.08% 1 20.00%
Golurk (623) 5 2.08% 2 40.00%
Hitmonchan (107) 5 2.08% 4 80.00%
Rotom (479) 5 2.08% 3 60.00%
Cradily (346) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Galvantula (596) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Houndoom (229) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Manectric (310) 4 1.67% 0 0.00%
Mantine (226) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Ursaring (217) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Victreebel (71) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Archeops (567) 3 1.25% 1 33.33%
Carracosta (565) 3 1.25% 1 33.33%
Clefable (36) 3 1.25% 1 33.33%
Eelektross (604) 3 1.25% 1 33.33%
Feraligatr (160) 3 1.25% 2 66.67%
Gallade (475) 3 1.25% 2 66.67%
Golbat (42) 3 1.25% 3 100.00%
Gurdurr (533) 3 1.25% 2 66.67%
Marowak (105) 3 1.25% 2 66.67%
Rhydon (112) 3 1.25% 2 66.67%
Scrafty (560) 3 1.25% 0 0.00%
Tauros (128) 3 1.25% 1 33.33%
Absol (359) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Ambipom (424) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Amoonguss (591) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Hariyama (297) 2 0.83% 0 0.00%
Nidoqueen (31) 2 0.83% 0 0.00%
Ninjask (291) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Smeargle (235) 2 0.83% 0 0.00%
Typhlosion (157) 2 0.83% 0 0.00%
Vanilluxe (584) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Whimsicott (547) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Zoroark (571) 2 0.83% 0 0.00%
Aggron (306) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Altaria (334) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Bronzor (436) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Butterfree (12) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Drapion (452) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Drifblim (426) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Dusknoir (477) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Electivire (466) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Ferroseed (597) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Golduck (55) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Hitmontop (237) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Magmortar (467) 1 0.42% 1 100.00%
Metang (375) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Miltank (241) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Ninetales (38) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Pikachu (25) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Pinsir (127) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Scyther (123) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Shuckle (213) 1 0.42% 1 100.00%
Slowking (199) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Vileplume (45) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%

 

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So on paper, Lucario is a damn beast. It has no reason to not run either Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, and can clean nearly everything in the tier once it has set up (so long as it carries Life Orb and has enough health to survive). Even without Life Orb it has cleaning potential so long as you played your cards right and got enough chip.

 

Regarding Swords Dance, Lucario can OHKO near everything with Life Orb and Stealth Rocks. The only Pokemon above 8% usage currently and survive the basic set of Swords Dance, Close Combat, Crunch, and Extremespeed at are Spiritomb, Dusclops, and Slowbro. Gligar gets a pass, but drop Crunch for Ice Punch and suddenly you're out of luck.

 

Bulky Defense

Spoiler
Max Defense Rotom-Heat? OHKO with Close Combat
 
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 153-183 (87.9 - 105.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 231-274 (97.4 - 115.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 183-216 (88.4 - 104.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 136-161 (76.8 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 88-104 (59.8 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 73-86 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery +

 

2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 146-172 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A +2 Extremespeed w/ Life Orb is able to clean near everything barring Mismagius, which has proven to be the best RK in the tier with an easily predicted HP Fighting that only does 55-66%. The only other thing that can stop it? Special Lucario with Vacuum Wave although a boosted espeed does 47-56%.

Spoiler

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 127-151 (66.1 - 78.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 127-151 (76.9 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 140-166 (87.5 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 127-151 (72.1 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 127-151 (86.3 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Staraptor: 139-165 (86.8 - 103.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 127-151 (81.9 - 97.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Now theory is one thing, but we (TC) wanted practical and observational evidence to prove that Lucario deserves its position on the Borderline list and effectively banned from UU.

 

Thus far, Lucario has easily risen to the top of the tier with over 30% usage and over 50% win percentage, both incredibly outstanding. In tournament play, Lucario is in the top 2 usage, but interestingly enough seen less in quarterfinals and finals matches in comparison. We see it sweeping in the early rounds, but really negated once competition tightens up.

 

Other observations show that Lucario isn't necessarily the deciding factor in most matches. We have often seen Lucario taking too much damage to have much effect once it has set up, or being stopped with status moves. Dugtrio has been able to remove a few Lucario too as it has seen increased usage with its bump in Attack (Base Attack 80-->100). Now that is not to say Lucario hasn't been seen 6-0ing teams, it has. It is the most diverse and offensively gifted Pokemon in PokeMMO. 

 

Now in my own personal practice, I choose nothing other than teams designed around a Lucario sweep, or taking advantage of players being overly cautious trying to keep checks and counters alive at the cost of other mons as I typically win with a Scarf Krook or some other adjacent sweeper. But, I since Lucario dropped I think of no other set-up sweeper to use because there really isn't any need for one (Azumarill might be broken without Jellicent tho, but that's another story).

 

So what does that mean? It means Lucario is too fucking good. Counter arguments include the fact that Lucario has very few set-up opportunities, maybe Scarf Krook Crunch/Pursuit and Porygon2 barring status. The entire tier has coverage or chunks Lucario a great deal, slowing down its sweeping ability, and more often than not, we see this being a huge factor in Lucario's effect on matches. Regardless, once Lucario sets up, it is almost indestructable, especially the Swords Dance version. Special Lucario can sweep but is a better wall breaker as there are more reliable RK options in faster threats that resist or are immune to Vacuum Wave.

 

tl;dr Lucario looks too good and I'm leaning toward a Quick Ban, but that's my lone opinion and not the consensus of the TC. We are still in discussion and votes are coming.

Edited by DoubleJ
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13 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Thus far, Lucario has easily risen to the top of the tier with over 30% usage and over 50% win percentage, both incredibly outstanding. In tournament play, Lucario is in the top 2 usage, but interestingly enough seen less in quarterfinals and finals matches in comparison. We see it sweeping in the early rounds, but really negated once competition tightens up.

I do not think there is any public data on this, but it should not really matter since we are talking about a very tiny portion of duels out of the thousands being played each month. It's also not surprising that someone would see a future opponent abusing Lucario and then overpreparing for that specific threat compromising its entire teambuild in the process. There is nothing good about this.

 

13 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

We have often seen Lucario taking too much damage to have much effect once it has set up, or being stopped with status moves.

Lucario is immune to poison. Burn works only for physical Lucario. Paralysis speed reduction doesn't prevent Lucario from using priority moves. Tbh, Lucario is not really vulnerable to status moves compared to other mons.

 

13 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Dugtrio has been able to remove a few Lucario too as it has seen increased usage with its bump in Attack (Base Attack 80-->100).

The base stat increase might make Dugtrio more viable in UU, but it doesn't change much regarding Lucario. Dugtrio vs Lucario is not a great match up since Dugtrio is threathen heavily by Lucario's priority moves. If Dugtrio is Sash, it still might lose if Lucario is holding a Sash as well.

 

13 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Now in my own personal practice, I choose nothing other than teams designed around a Lucario sweep, or taking advantage of players being overly cautious trying to keep checks and counters alive at the cost of other mons as I typically win with a Scarf Krook or some other adjacent sweeper. But, I since Lucario dropped I think of no other set-up sweeper to use because there really isn't any need for one (Azumarill might be broken without Jellicent tho, but that's another story).

I think this probably needs clarification because right now it looks like you blatantly forced Lucario to drop in order to abuse a broken mon. Also, Azumarill is not broken. It was not broken in NU and is certainly not broken in UU either. I have my guess on who is feeding you this bs and you really need to stop listening to them because it's ridiculous. 

 

13 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

So what does that mean? It means Lucario is too fucking good. Counter arguments include the fact that Lucario has very few set-up opportunities, maybe Scarf Krook Crunch/Pursuit and Porygon2 barring status. The entire tier has coverage or chunks Lucario a great deal, slowing down its sweeping ability, and more often than not, we see this being a huge factor in Lucario's effect on matches. Regardless, once Lucario sets up, it is almost indestructable, especially the Swords Dance version. Special Lucario can sweep but is a better wall breaker as there are more reliable RK options in faster threats that resist or are immune to Vacuum Wave.

Ok, I think this is part of the problem. I didn't do the math, but there is such a huge portion of the tier that can't afford staying in front of an unboosted Close Combat and even less that can afford switching into one. It's wrong to think Lucario has to set up. It can do so much without setting up and the fear of a potential set up can be enough to make sure stuff that get OHKO by Lucario stay in order to chip it on the set up potential set up turn.

 

13 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

tl;dr Lucario looks too good and I'm leaning toward a Quick Ban, but that's my lone opinion and not the consensus of the TC. We are still in discussion and votes are coming.

It's not a quick ban if you guys decide to ban Lucario at the end of the month, that's just a regular monthly ban.

edit: Oh I almost forgot, you still did not give me an example of Lucario being crippled by UU trick users.

Edited by gbwead
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I was making a hella long post but I see you got enough constructive criticism on what you said through Gb.

I'll just disagree with some of your arguments, who are over dramatizing the situation, even tho I share some of your conclusions and I'm glad that you dared to share your think process with us. 🙃
 

Spoiler

Out of my head, what was wrong about your post :
- Crobat spread isn't 252 Hp, Speed, it uses a lot of def usually, if you go for 252 speed (which is bad) even shared HP and Def allows you to not be killed by +2 Xspeed after rocks, so you should take it out of the mons unable to revenge kill it.
- Need to mention it's not that impossible to RK +2 Lucario with mons such as Flygon, Krook, Mismagius that you mentionned, Durant, Sigilyph (yea 0 hp is a roll, so you just put some HP and you're out of range, amazing) and probably others that I didn't use yet.

- Need to mention the fact some more walls (Bronz/Gastro 252/252+def) need to actually be highrolled to lose to Lucario + Rocks... They'd also lose to +2 Focus blast but I've seen most people use Aura Sphere for the accuracy so far. Not that it is an argument to say it's fine, it isn't quite reliable and you need to be 100% hp so yea...
- At one point you said "30% usage and 50% winrate" just think about what is wrong about it 🙂 

- Worth noting : Snorlax, Umbreon, Pursuit and Cm Tombs & Bisharp can also be decent setup windows for Lucario, not that any of these mons are good in the meta right now (Lucario dropping didn't help them ngl)

 

Also @gbwead why banning before the end of a suspect test period wouldn't be called a quick ban ?
Not too familiar with the smogonian vocabulary 😞 

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2 minutes ago, TohnR said:

I was making a hella long post but I see you got enough constructive criticism on what you said through Gb.

I'll just disagree with some of your arguments, who are over dramatizing the situation, even tho I share some of your conclusions and I'm glad that you dared to share your think process with us. 🙃
 

  Hide contents

Out of my head, what was wrong about your post :
- Crobat spread isn't 252 Hp, Speed, it uses a lot of def usually, if you go for 252 speed (which is bad) even shared HP and Def allows you to not be killed by +2 Xspeed after rocks, so you should take it out of the mons unable to revenge kill it.
- Need to mention it's not that impossible to RK +2 Lucario with mons such as Flygon, Krook, Mismagius that you mentionned, Durant, Sigilyph (yea 0 hp is a roll, so you just put some HP and you're out of range, amazing) and probably others that I didn't use yet.

- Need to mention the fact some more walls (Bronz/Gastro 252/252+def) need to actually be highrolled to lose to Lucario + Rocks... They'd also lose to +2 Focus blast but I've seen most people use Aura Sphere for the accuracy so far. Not that it is an argument to say it's fine, it isn't quite reliable and you need to be 100% hp so yea...
- At one point you said "30% usage and 50% winrate" just think about what is wrong about it 🙂 

- Worth noting : Snorlax, Umbreon, Pursuit and Cm Tombs & Bisharp can also be decent setup windows for Lucario, not that any of these mons are good in the meta right now (Lucario dropping didn't help them ngl)

 

Also @gbwead why banning before the end of a suspect test period wouldn't be called a quick ban ?
Not too familiar with the smogonian vocabulary 😞 

I think you're missing the point when trying to nitpick my argument. Not everyone runs the same basic sets or ev spreads, with the most common simply being pulled from Smogon. My primary argument here is that Lucario is too good, both in theory and practice. Access to Swords Dance + Extremespeed is the biggest reason. 

 

If you're opposed to a ban, then your post makes more sense and I'd like to hear more about that.

 

Also, please refer to the TC Policy thread for definitions of a quick ban process. Additional edits are being made to the etiquette guide that should be posted at some point. 

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5 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Also @gbwead why banning before the end of a suspect test period wouldn't be called a quick ban ?
Not too familiar with the smogonian vocabulary 😞 

Because whether you look at the tiering policy or the OP of this thread, this suspect test could last from 1, 2 or 3 months. So banning Lucario at the end of the month is just a regular ban really.

 

On 9/30/2021 at 10:39 AM, DoubleJ said:

but we anticipate this being a process that might take a month or more if not.

Quote

5.  Suspect tests will last for a period of at least one month, and likely for an entire 3-month cycle. This allows for analysis of the tier and discussion amongst the tier council and the community. The tier council will proceed with a vote to reinstate the ban or keep the suspected Pokemon once the appropriate amount of time has passed and a decision is ready to be made.

 

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Edited in:

Quote

Quick Bans

 

Quick bans will be made when a certain aspect (be it a Pokémon, an ability, a move, an item or a combination of the aforementioned) of the metagame becomes so blatantly broken that passing it through a formal discussion or testing period would be a waste of time and effort for everyone. They can circumvent all other normal process and as such are used sparingly. Quick bans will be made according to the following circumstances:

 

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On 10/18/2021 at 2:50 AM, Munya said:

Tournament Usage over the weekend

  Reveal hidden contents

 

All Teams Total Pokemon Total Teams Winning Teams Win Rate
  1440 240    
Pokemon Raw Usage Percentage    
Crobat (169) 121 50.42% 69 57.02%
Lucario (448) 103 42.92% 57 55.34%
Rotom [Heat Rotom] (657) 86 35.83% 44 51.16%
Porygon2 (233) 71 29.58% 36 50.70%
Bronzong (437) 58 24.17% 36 62.07%
Empoleon (395) 57 23.75% 35 61.40%
Krookodile (553) 48 20.00% 29 60.42%
Flygon (330) 42 17.50% 19 45.24%
Medicham (308) 37 15.42% 22 59.46%
Mismagius (429) 37 15.42% 23 62.16%
Mamoswine (473) 34 14.17% 19 55.88%
Staraptor (398) 31 12.92% 17 54.84%
Sigilyph (561) 30 12.50% 15 50.00%
Spiritomb (442) 30 12.50% 14 46.67%
Swampert (260) 30 12.50% 16 53.33%
Vaporeon (134) 30 12.50% 13 43.33%
Durant (632) 29 12.08% 15 51.72%
Tentacruel (73) 28 11.67% 14 50.00%
Azumarill (184) 27 11.25% 11 40.74%
Yanmega (469) 26 10.83% 12 46.15%
Dusclops (356) 24 10.00% 8 33.33%
Arcanine (59) 22 9.17% 7 31.82%
Venomoth (49) 21 8.75% 10 47.62%
Druddigon (621) 20 8.33% 6 30.00%
Blastoise (9) 19 7.92% 8 42.11%
Umbreon (197) 17 7.08% 7 41.18%
Donphan (232) 16 6.67% 10 62.50%
Forretress (205) 16 6.67% 6 37.50%
Porygon-Z (474) 16 6.67% 7 43.75%
Gastrodon (423) 15 6.25% 9 60.00%
Gigalith (526) 15 6.25% 8 53.33%
Snorlax (143) 14 5.83% 6 42.86%
Roserade (407) 13 5.42% 5 38.46%
Venusaur (3) 13 5.42% 7 53.85%
Lanturn (171) 12 5.00% 5 41.67%
Aerodactyl (142) 11 4.58% 6 54.55%
Bisharp (625) 11 4.58% 4 36.36%
Dugtrio (51) 11 4.58% 3 27.27%
Gligar (207) 10 4.17% 4 40.00%
Rhyperior (464) 10 4.17% 6 60.00%
Torkoal (324) 8 3.33% 3 37.50%
Toxicroak (454) 8 3.33% 6 75.00%
Electrode (101) 7 2.92% 4 57.14%
Slowbro (80) 7 2.92% 2 28.57%
Claydol (344) 6 2.50% 2 33.33%
Machamp (68) 6 2.50% 1 16.67%
Alakazam (65) 5 2.08% 2 40.00%
Blaziken (257) 5 2.08% 1 20.00%
Exeggutor (103) 5 2.08% 1 20.00%
Golurk (623) 5 2.08% 2 40.00%
Hitmonchan (107) 5 2.08% 4 80.00%
Rotom (479) 5 2.08% 3 60.00%
Cradily (346) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Galvantula (596) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Houndoom (229) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Manectric (310) 4 1.67% 0 0.00%
Mantine (226) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Ursaring (217) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Victreebel (71) 4 1.67% 2 50.00%
Archeops (567) 3 1.25% 1 33.33%
Carracosta (565) 3 1.25% 1 33.33%
Clefable (36) 3 1.25% 1 33.33%
Eelektross (604) 3 1.25% 1 33.33%
Feraligatr (160) 3 1.25% 2 66.67%
Gallade (475) 3 1.25% 2 66.67%
Golbat (42) 3 1.25% 3 100.00%
Gurdurr (533) 3 1.25% 2 66.67%
Marowak (105) 3 1.25% 2 66.67%
Rhydon (112) 3 1.25% 2 66.67%
Scrafty (560) 3 1.25% 0 0.00%
Tauros (128) 3 1.25% 1 33.33%
Absol (359) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Ambipom (424) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Amoonguss (591) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Hariyama (297) 2 0.83% 0 0.00%
Nidoqueen (31) 2 0.83% 0 0.00%
Ninjask (291) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Smeargle (235) 2 0.83% 0 0.00%
Typhlosion (157) 2 0.83% 0 0.00%
Vanilluxe (584) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Whimsicott (547) 2 0.83% 1 50.00%
Zoroark (571) 2 0.83% 0 0.00%
Aggron (306) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Altaria (334) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Bronzor (436) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Butterfree (12) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Drapion (452) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Drifblim (426) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Dusknoir (477) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Electivire (466) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Ferroseed (597) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Golduck (55) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Hitmontop (237) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Magmortar (467) 1 0.42% 1 100.00%
Metang (375) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Miltank (241) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Ninetales (38) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Pikachu (25) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Pinsir (127) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Scyther (123) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Shuckle (213) 1 0.42% 1 100.00%
Slowking (199) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%
Vileplume (45) 1 0.42% 0 0.00%

 

ban Crobat lol

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It's been a few weeks and we've only seen one opinion from JJ, where are the others? I am not the only one to whom it must seem that the level is unplayable, Lucario sweeps with the specific set to many things of the level, and even without boosting it is capable of generating problems, I see rounds being won only with a boost of this and others where they both depend on him to win.

We have to wait 3 months playing a level where Lucario breaks it and we must always focus on most of the builds? Or where should we counteract one luca boost against another to see which priority is better? They were responsible for this, at least say if they already made a decision and not wait weeks on something that should have been quickban.

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On 10/22/2021 at 7:05 AM, Munya said:

I haven't gotten enough votes to do anything to it yet, but a required vote is coming up soon, starting on the 28th ending on the end of the 30th, they will have 3 options, ban, keep, or extend.

Kind of a random question, but could you guys do this publicly or at least showcase the opinion of every TC member even if you put them as anonymous? 

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46 minutes ago, razimove said:

Kind of a random question, but could you guys do this publicly or at least showcase the opinion of every TC member even if you put them as anonymous? 

No, we are not turning TC votes into a witch hunt for everybody that votes a different way than somebody else might like.

 

40 minutes ago, Quinn010 said:

i know mmo does everything slow but why people need more then 1 month to look if lucario is broken or not XD?

Lets not jump to conclusions, no vote has been had yet, the option is just there as per the rules of the policy.

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I really don't like the idea of doing this, so I am sure everybody here will love the idea.  What is every bodies opinion on getting rid of P2, and extending the Lucario test?

 

I would rather drop them both myself and then if need be, re-evaluate the idea of doing another test down the road.  Banning something for the sake of extending a test doesn't sit right with me.

 

This is not a guarantee anything is getting banned, votes are not in. 

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24 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

How about:

We get rid of P2, P-Z and Lucario at the same time? 🙂

This is the best possible outcome for UU imo. Getting rid of only one of them will not be that useful. We have seen what UU looks like with P2 only. We have seen what UU looks like with P2 + PZ. And now we have seen what UU looks like with P2 + PZ + Lucario. There are multiple combinations we haven't tried yet (PZ only) (Lucario only) (PZ + Lucario) (P2 + Lucario) and I pray we don't have to go through each combination before having to inevitably ban all three of mons. 

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8 minutes ago, gbwead said:

This is the best possible outcome for UU imo. Getting rid of only one of them will not be that useful. We have seen what UU looks like with P2 only. We have seen what UU looks like with P2 + PZ. And now we have seen what UU looks like with P2 + PZ + Lucario. There are multiple combinations we haven't tried yet (PZ only) (Lucario only) (PZ + Lucario) (P2 + Lucario) and I pray we don't have to go through each combination before having to inevitably ban all three of mons. 

Not exactly my reasoning but I don't disagree.  I just don't think we should be banning a different pokemon during a test especially as an excuse or way to extend a test.  It should go, Test ends->New ban initiated-> then after some time passes if something needs to be evaluated again you go through the normal process of opening a thread for it and initiating a new test.

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Dw, consensus is impossible, half the people think 2 is the problem half think z, anybody else thinks both, so either one half is going to be angry or the other half, or everybody, and none leave me with  peace of mind

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1 hour ago, Munya said:

Dw, consensus is impossible, half the people think 2 is the problem half think z, anybody else thinks both, so either one half is going to be angry or the other half, or everybody, and none leave me with  peace of mind

from what I understood and keep in mind I barely read about the P2/PZ discussion, both are a problem. Except P2 ends up being a lot more dominant than Pz as P2 not only has really good bulk with the usage of eviolite, but it's also able to pressure offensively hard due to download. While both are problems I'd argue P2 probably is a bit way to good in UU's meta as it's a jack of all trades and should be looked onto first, good coverage, access to teleport, self recovery aswell.

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