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Rache

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20 minutes ago, Riesz said:

Will there be HA implemented in Random mode soon, for the team to gather data prior to HA release?

 

12 minutes ago, epicdavenport said:

Is this something that has been discussed? As nice as it sounds to add them into just a randoms game mode would be so annoying after waiting on them for so long.

 

On 9/22/2021 at 3:46 PM, Rache said:

Hidden abilities are currently excluded, but will be added once they're obtainable.

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4 hours ago, Riesz said:

Will there be HA implemented in Random mode soon, for the team to gather data prior to HA release?

They won't be included until they're available in the rest of the game. Human players are a lot more punishing than the AI if you don't know that something can have a particular ability, so it won't feel very fair.

 

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I'll be disabling NFEs that perform poorly later today. At the moment, this is what I'd like to remove:
-Onix
-Lickitung
-Porygon
-Aipom
-Yanma

-Murkrow (will be re-enabled after hidden abilities)

 


Meaning that these are the ones I'd like to keep:

-Pikachu because it's tiered
-Golbat because it's tiered
-Magneton because it's tiered
-Chansey because it's tiered
-Porygon2 because it's tiered
-Gligar because it's tiered
-Piloswine because it's tiered
-Dusclops because it's tiered
-Rhydon because it's been tiered previously and is performing decently.

-Seadra because it's performing decently

-Tangela because it's performing decently

-Togetic because it's performing decently

-Magmar because it's performing decently

-Sneasel because it's performing decently

-Electabuzz because it's performing very well
-Misdreavus because it's performing very well

-Roselia because it's performing very well

 

 

 

Feedback would be appreciated.

Edited by Rache
Forgot Sneasel
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8 minutes ago, Rache said:

-Pikachu because it's tiered
-Golbat because it's tiered
-Magneton because it's tiered
-Chansey because it's tiered
-Porygon2 because it's tiered
-Gligar because it's tiered
-Piloswine because it's tiered
-Dusclops because it's tiered
-Rhydon because it's been tiered previously

-Seadra because it's performing decently

-Tangela because it's performing decently

-Togetic because it's performing decently

-Magmar because it's performing decently

-Electabuzz because it's performing very well
-Misdreavus because it's performing very well

-Roselia because it's performing very well

 

Green = I agree with keeping these, primarily because I think they perform in a way that is unique from their evo'd versions

Orange = I agree with keeping these until gen 4 evo's introduced, which I would prefer replace them. Otherwise I feel like with these, you'll have a superior version and an inferior version of the same species, which I'm not a fan of.

Red = I think these should be removed because of their existing evo's. Golbat feels like a worse version of Crobat (eviolite Golbat is tankier, but ehh...). And, for Seadra, I just think it should be Kingdra only, Seadra has similar offense to Kingdra, but is sp defensively so much worse. Also, lack of dragon typing hurts, so Kingdra feels like a superior version of Seadra.

 

 

Just my opinions, I don't feel strongly about any of it

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11 hours ago, Havsha said:

I think there needs to be more structure to these teams, you dont get 4 choice locked pokemon and 4 water types in gen 3 showdown random bats. Right now some of these teams can be very frustrating to play with, and I dont know if the solution is as simple as adding the later gen mons in the future

I too think that the format would benefit from more structure, but limiting the builds to certain archetypes would maybe make things feel less random ykwim

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3 hours ago, Gilan said:

-Golbat because it's tiered

-Seadra because it's performing decently

To add a bit of context to their performance, both are currently doing better than their evolutions.

Golbat is ranked #23 and wins 53.36% of the time. Crobat is ranked #31 and wins 53.06% of the time.

Seadra is ranked #70 and wins 51.53% of the time. Kingdra is ranked #86 and wins 51.01% of the time.

 

 

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Aipom and Porygon have been removed from rotation. One because it's awful and the other because it's just a worse version of its evolution, which is already in the format. The other NFEs will remain for now, but if there's enough demand to remove them, it's not off the table. Disabling a build is a one-way street though - once gone, I can't bring them back without an update.

 

---

 

For the direction things are going in at the moment:

 

Build-related:
-A few more mistakes fixed, such as Weather Ball on Ninetales.
-Inferior items like Shell Bell have been removed.
-Some of the more situational moves and items have been removed or weighted more heavily against.
-Choice items have been made significantly less common. Most of the same Pokemon can pull them, but are more likely to pull other items instead.
-Entry hazards are a bit less common and ways to remove them are a bit more common.
-Most builds with a high chance of having no damaging moves are more likely to have one. Some with one are more likely to have two.
-Minor unrelated tweaks to a large number of builds.

 

Format-related:
-Pokemon from the lowest tiers (lv83 + lv100) are limited to 2 per team.
-No type will appear more than twice on any team.
-Identical dual types such as Pidgeot + Fearow will not appear together.
-Pokemon with Pursuit, Arena Trap, and Shadow Tag will no longer be selected as leads.
-Experimental tier changes will begin to occur monthly based on species winrates (52% to drop 1 level, 48% to gain 1 level).
-Winrate data for the format will be reset after builds are imported to ensure that the statistics these level changes are going to be based on are accurate.

 

These changes aren't in place yet though, they require a server update.

 

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6 hours ago, Rache said:

To add a bit of context to their performance, both are currently doing better than their evolutions.

Golbat is ranked #23 and wins 53.36% of the time. Crobat is ranked #31 and wins 53.06% of the time.

Seadra is ranked #70 and wins 51.53% of the time. Kingdra is ranked #86 and wins 51.01% of the time.

 

 

Actually surprising to me. Thanks for the info

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4 hours ago, Rache said:


-Pokemon with Pursuit, Arena Trap, and Shadow Tag will no longer be selected as leads.

 

self proclaimed randbats god here and i dont think this should be a thing, because in a way it reduces the "randomness" of the format. being trapped t1 can be a possibility and is just the nature of rands, and that shouldnt be taken away. fwiw showdown randbats does not do this

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10 minutes ago, Toast said:

self proclaimed randbats god here and i dont think this should be a thing, because in a way it reduces the "randomness" of the format. being trapped t1 can be a possibility and is just the nature of rands, and that shouldnt be taken away. fwiw showdown randbats does not do this

Yeah I completely agree with this.

Sometimes, Pursuit, Arena Trap, and Shadow Tag won't even really matter. Sometimes they do cause you to go down 5 v 6 instantly. But, that is randoms. Part of what makes randoms a lot of fun for me, is that there are some feelsbad matches, but those make the feelsgood matches even better. Also, coming back from a 5v6 or even a 4v6 situation feels so good.

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18 minutes ago, Toast said:

self proclaimed randbats god here and i dont think this should be a thing, because in a way it reduces the "randomness" of the format. being trapped t1 can be a possibility and is just the nature of rands, and that shouldnt be taken away. fwiw showdown randbats does not do this

This is being considered mostly due to how item generation works here, with it being a per-build thing rather than based on stats, the presence or quantity of certain moves, etc. Showdown seems to give frail leads Focus Sash most of the time, making Pursuit at least less impactful.

 

If these blacklists make the format worse despite this though, it's not too late to undo. Would appreciate more input if others have strong feelings on the topic.

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6 minutes ago, Rache said:

This is being considered mostly due to how item generation works here, with it being a per-build thing rather than based on stats, the presence or quantity of certain moves, etc. Showdown seems to give frail leads Focus Sash most of the time, making Pursuit at least less impactful.

 

If these blacklists make the format worse despite this though, it's not too late to undo. Would appreciate more input if others have strong feelings on the topic.

the way that the randbats code works (in gen8) is that there is a bulk threshold on mons, i believe its hp + def + sdef = or > 249 it will be sash, if no recovery or smth like that. (pursuit also doesnt exist in gen8 anymore, but in gen7 it works the same). the generation of sets here is different than showdown, where each mons have set sets instead of have a movepool of moves it can roll. however, i think that's fine still because keeping trapping leads is still part of the nature of randbats

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12 hours ago, Rache said:

Build-related:

 

-A few more mistakes fixed, such as Weather Ball on Ninetales.
-Inferior items like Shell Bell have been removed.
-Some of the more situational moves and items have been removed or weighted more heavily against.
-Choice items have been made significantly less common. Most of the same Pokemon can pull them, but are more likely to pull other items instead.
-Entry hazards are a bit less common and ways to remove them are a bit more common.
-Most builds with a high chance of having no damaging moves are more likely to have one. Some with one are more likely to have two.
-Minor unrelated tweaks to a large number of builds.

 

Format-related:
-Pokemon from the lowest tiers (lv83 + lv100) are limited to 2 per team.
-No type will appear more than twice on any team.
-Identical dual types such as Pidgeot + Fearow will not appear together.
-Pokemon with Pursuit, Arena Trap, and Shadow Tag will no longer be selected as leads.
-Experimental tier changes will begin to occur monthly based on species winrates (52% to drop 1 level, 48% to gain 1 level).
-Winrate data for the format will be reset after builds are imported to ensure that the statistics these level changes are going to be based on are accurate.

The changes above have now been implemented, in addition to:

 

-A few completely new builds for a variety species. Among them is a replacement for the Metronome Clefable, I've had my fun.

-Trick Room, Gyro Ball, and Metal Burst now also reduce speed IVs to 0 (previously only EVs were reduced).

-Pokemon that don't make use of their attack stat have had their attack EVs and IVs reduced to 0.

 

It wasn't done for this update, but something we're also considering for the future is preventing dual screens from appearing on more than one Pokemon. This is a fairly common set on a variety of species here that while decent on one party member, has generated a lot of complaints due to how frequently it's pulled on multiple.

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can i recommend a post for random match building suggestions?
also pokemon should have some kind of value to balance teams to have more fair battles (i.e: Dustox quiver dance set has 3 points in your team, exeggutor physical set 1 point . So you have 4 points and your rival has a mukrow roost calm mind and claydol scarf, two points each. 4 points has your rival)

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24 minutes ago, Rache said:

Among them is a replacement for the Metronome Clefable, I've had my fun.

Unsubscribed. Deleted MMO. Permaban my account.

 

😠

 

Spoiler

just kidding. Other than getting a good laugh, it was terrible.

 

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A few anti-fun builds that boost both defenses without boosting an offensive stat or powering up a move have been disabled. Some of them will return next update with tweaks to make them more tolerable, but right now they just make the game worse.

 

--

 

23 hours ago, clayclover said:

can i recommend a post for random match building suggestions?
also pokemon should have some kind of value to balance teams to have more fair battles (i.e: Dustox quiver dance set has 3 points in your team, exeggutor physical set 1 point . So you have 4 points and your rival has a mukrow roost calm mind and claydol scarf, two points each. 4 points has your rival)

This drifts a bit too far from the intended randomness. Preventing you from getting an entire team of garbage is okay, but making sure you get something great to make up for whatever garbage you do get is taking it a bit too far. It's okay to get lucky or unlucky at the start of a match, it's arguably the point.

 

 

23 hours ago, razimove said:

what about ditto?

The moment you start deleting fully evolved Pokemon just because they're bad is the moment you completely abandon the premise of the format.

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